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Patriots 2023 Season Thread
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 16, 2023 19:58:38 GMT -5
Not only does our OLine (Trent Brown excluded) stink, our DLine is pretty bad too. Pff had Guy ranked 121 and Gaudchaux ranked 119 of 121 IDLmen. Wise ranks 96 of 100 Edge rushers. Barmore, White, Uche, Jennings, and Judon have all been ok. No one has excelled. In limited snaps, Roberts and Pharms have been pretty bad and Ekuale has been ok ... I'm not a fan of PFF as the sole arbiter of performance. They measure what they measure and there's value in that. But what is considered a "win" for a 2-gap DT? And how is the PFF grader supposed to know what defense was called and what the responsibilities of the individual players? |
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rasimon
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Post by rasimon on Oct 17, 2023 18:19:40 GMT -5
Pats (re)sign Connor McDermott
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 17, 2023 20:32:16 GMT -5
I have found a worse offensive line in football!
It’s in Southern Miss. South Alabama is eating them alive. SA’s QB intrigues me as a backup/PS candidate.
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Post by Montana Lemonious-Craig on Oct 17, 2023 21:44:06 GMT -5
Pats (re)sign Connor McDermott Season saved! |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 17, 2023 22:46:43 GMT -5
Connor McDermott was decent last year! He'd offer some restence against the pass rush. Nothing great, he'd give up some pressure, but Harris and Lowe just let guys run free. That's the type of move that could take the line from horrible to bad. Assuming he's not injured and can play at last years level.
We'll see, but Bill trying to upgrade the OL might have made it worse. Knew what he had in McDermott and hoped Lowe and Wheatley would be better, betting on upside over what you already knew was a so so RT. The problem is a so so RT is such an upgrade at this point.
Still amazes me, you had him in camp, barely got to see Harris and picked OT teams were willing to trade over him. I'm a diehard fan, I drank the kool-aid even though I knew better. Teams don't trade good OT on cut down from very little if they are actually good.
It's like Kraft is paying the OL to suck, to tank and if Mac gets hurt, that solves another issue. So Bill pays Brown more to try lol. Yeah that's what this season has come too.
I'll spend my time scouting players and watching more college football. Then Bill will sign Clousins and draft defense in the first 3 rounds. Connor McDermott then gets a 3 year deal.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 18, 2023 9:33:06 GMT -5
For some clarification, McDermott was released with an injury designation so not exactly true that BB chose other options over him (over an injured him, yes).
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 18, 2023 10:44:15 GMT -5
Per NFL rules you can't return till after time of injury settlement plus 3 weeks. So his settlement was for 3 weeks, plus 3 extra weeks, he's back after 6 games. Zero reason you can't keep him when it was a minor injury, could have used IR, had him back two games earlier. Maybe he's ready to go in two weeks. He did what he did to try and upgrade. That hasn't worked so he's going back to the guy he should have kept in first place.
Also Jack Jones back at practice, maybe now we don't have to see Bryant playing outside CB and we can get back to playing man coverage versus more zone.
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Post by texs31 on Oct 18, 2023 11:14:55 GMT -5
Okay. When he was first spotted at practice, one of the usual suspects (beat writers) mentioned it. Does the rule you sited apply to PS as well?
EDIT - So it was Daniels that reminded he had been released with an injury settlement back in August. And Lazar mentioned it as well and used the phrase "now that the allotted time period has likely passed".
So that's where I got it from.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 18, 2023 11:15:31 GMT -5
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 18, 2023 11:38:35 GMT -5
I don’t think the league would allow that so imagine it’s not
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 18, 2023 11:47:03 GMT -5
I don’t think the league would allow that so imagine it’s not I don't think any team would go for that anyways. Fastest way to end up in the XFL. Assuming this is a serious ask, I wonder if this is a ploy to try and slide down the draft to end up in a better situation. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 18, 2023 12:57:59 GMT -5
For some clarification, McDermott was released with an injury designation so not exactly true that BB chose other options over him (over an injured him, yes). Right. And as I understand the rule, it is a negotiated amount between team & player, not a hard and fast "chart" that injury X requires Y amount of time off. So to claim he got paid three weeks but wasn't available until six, as some sort of deficiency in planning, requires an (unavailable) certainty that he might otherwise have been healthy in week 4, (if so, and he's an upgrade, and the Patriots are hardly the only NFL team with OL issues, why has no other team signed him?), that I would suggest is unknowable. Put another way, the margin between journeymen A, B, C is so small that choosing healthy vs. non-healthy seems most prudent. That said, good to have McDermott back. Let's see what he can do. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 18, 2023 13:00:01 GMT -5
I don’t think the league would allow that so imagine it’s not I don't think any team would go for that anyways. Fastest way to end up in the XFL. Assuming this is a serious ask, I wonder if this is a ploy to try and slide down the draft to end up in a better situation. Slide down, get paid less. Although another game or two like the one against ND, plus a couple more prima donna asks, slide down he might. |
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 18, 2023 13:53:35 GMT -5
I don't think any team would go for that anyways. Fastest way to end up in the XFL. Assuming this is a serious ask, I wonder if this is a ploy to try and slide down the draft to end up in a better situation. Slide down, get paid less. Although another game or two like the one against ND, plus a couple more prima donna asks, slide down he might. That's a fair assessment, but I wonder about risk/reward. Let's say Mac Jones could have been a good QB, but the Patriots ruined him. He would have been better off making less on his rookie deal for greater longevity. If Mahomes was on this Patriots team as a drafted rookie in year 3, does he earn the same contract he's gotten? Just a thought. |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 18, 2023 14:57:08 GMT -5
Slide down, get paid less. Although another game or two like the one against ND, plus a couple more prima donna asks, slide down he might. That's a fair assessment, but I wonder about risk/reward. Let's say Mac Jones could have been a good QB, but the Patriots ruined him. He would have been better off making less on his rookie deal for greater longevity. If Mahomes was on this Patriots team as a drafted rookie in year 3, does he earn the same contract he's gotten? Just a thought. I would suppose the truly elite don't think in those terms. Give me a playbook, some teammates and games on the schedule -- LFG! Plus have you had a look at Patty's supporting cast? This NE group would likely be an upgrade (if/when OL gets reasonably healthy). Eli played that card & SD made out on the deal quite nicely. Maybe the kid's old man is in his ear too. Or maybe they're deflecting noise from this past week's dreadful performance. I'm guessing the kid hasn't played too many stinkers in his short lifetime. How does he respond when tested again? |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 18, 2023 18:59:25 GMT -5
That's a fair assessment, but I wonder about risk/reward. Let's say Mac Jones could have been a good QB, but the Patriots ruined him. He would have been better off making less on his rookie deal for greater longevity. If Mahomes was on this Patriots team as a drafted rookie in year 3, does he earn the same contract he's gotten? Just a thought. I would suppose the truly elite don't think in those terms. Give me a playbook, some teammates and games on the schedule -- LFG! Plus have you had a look at Patty's supporting cast? This NE group would likely be an upgrade (if/when OL gets reasonably healthy). Eli played that card & SD made out on the deal quite nicely. Maybe the kid's old man is in his ear too. Or maybe they're deflecting noise from this past week's dreadful performance. I'm guessing the kid hasn't played too many stinkers in his short lifetime. How does he respond when tested again? Travis Kelce is, no joke, 20x better than any player the patriots have on the current active roster. Offense or defense. I don’t think their group is worse than ours because of that lol |
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Oct 18, 2023 19:26:43 GMT -5
Now do the rest.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 18, 2023 19:33:05 GMT -5
Do you have to? The Chiefs have one guy that gets open, the pats have 0. The Chiefs have 1 HOF in the supporting cast Pat throws to, the Patriots have 1 fringe #2 receiver Rashee Rice seems decent. I’d take him over everybody except maybe Bourne. |
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 19, 2023 7:28:10 GMT -5
The Chiefs have best QB in NFL and are 9th in points. Take away Kelce, which a good defensive team can do and that team struggles. I'd be on phone about JuJu and Bourne with them.
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 19, 2023 7:48:27 GMT -5
Nobody is trading for Juju, he’s damaged goods on a bad contract. He can’t explode off his bad leg so now he sucks at the one thing he was good at (YAC). He used to be a powerful runner with the ball in his hands
Bourne I could see being attractive. Chiefs just dealt for Hardman though
I’d be willing to make the concession that the chiefs have a supporting cast worse than the Pats if we say Kelce doesn’t count! But until then nah and it’s not even close. He’s kind of a big deal. I would have killed to get Mac a weapon like Kelce the last couple of years
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Post by costpet on Oct 19, 2023 7:58:54 GMT -5
If we lose to the Bills, and I would bet on it, it's time to start thinking about the draft. We could get a lot of choices, even some high ones. The problem with that plan is that BB would do the picking. Kraft has to demote BB from the GM slot. Would he stand for that? Would that be a slap in the face? I think if he looked in the mirror he would agree that his draft choices haven't been what he was hoping. The problem is his ego. He might just quit. If that's the indication, then trade HIM for a draft pick. I've always said he was a jerk, but as long as he was winning, I could put up with that. Now that he's losing, he can't act so damn arrogant. If he can't handle it, well, see ya.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 19, 2023 8:20:12 GMT -5
Nobody is trading for Juju, he’s damaged goods on a bad contract. He can’t explode off his bad leg so now he sucks at the one thing he was good at (YAC). He used to be a powerful runner with the ball in his hands Bourne I could see being attractive. Chiefs just dealt for Hardman though I’d be willing to make the concession that the chiefs have a supporting cast worse than the Pats if we say Kelce doesn’t count! But until then nah and it’s not even close. He’s kind of a big deal. I would have killed to get Mac a weapon like Kelce the last couple of years That's his scouting report coming out, given your recent comments I don't really think you know who JuJu is as a player. He's never been an explosive player or one with good speed. He's a possession receiver with yac ability. One guy with no inside knowledge makes a comment and you run with it. He's had almost no chances all year in space, they've used Douglas for those routes. What plays do you see with him struggling off one foot? I see no chemistry between him and Mac Jones. Douglas is clearly better and he's similar to Bourne. Take Jackson, Chargers were going to release him, he's not even fully healthy, still first two games have been darn good. Style of play and fit matters. He'd cost almost nothing in salary this year and I bet he'd be willing to redo next years salary to get back to Chiefs and a QB he has chemistry with. Hardman does nothing to help with the two slot players that aren't playing well for them. |
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cdj
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Post by cdj on Oct 19, 2023 8:21:47 GMT -5
Nobody is trading for Juju, he’s damaged goods on a bad contract. He can’t explode off his bad leg so now he sucks at the one thing he was good at (YAC). He used to be a powerful runner with the ball in his hands Bourne I could see being attractive. Chiefs just dealt for Hardman though I’d be willing to make the concession that the chiefs have a supporting cast worse than the Pats if we say Kelce doesn’t count! But until then nah and it’s not even close. He’s kind of a big deal. I would have killed to get Mac a weapon like Kelce the last couple of years That's his scouting report coming out, given your recent comments I don't really think you know who JuJu is as a player. He's never been an explosive player or one with good speed. He's a possession receiver with yac ability. One guy with no inside knowledge makes a comment and you run with it. He's had almost no chances all year in space, they've used Douglas for those routes. What plays do you see with him struggling off one foot? I see no chemistry between him and Mac Jones. Douglas is clearly better and he's similar to Bourne. Take Jackson, Chargers were going to release him, he's not even fully healthy, still first two games have been darn good. Style of play and fit matters. He'd cost almost nothing in salary this year and I bet he'd be willing to redo next years salary to get back to Chiefs and a QB he has chemistry with. Hardman does nothing to help with the two slot players that aren't playing well for them. You realize you have to be powerful/explosive to be a YAC guy right? But yeah sure I know nothing. He has no ability to make plays after the catch now, his power is gone. He used to power/explode through tackles. He doesn’t do that now. I’m not making the claim that he used to jet by guys like Tyreek Hill I run with it because he barely did anything this summer! And then looks like this now! FTR possessions receivers can’t be YAC guys imo. They’re guys with reliable hands that you send out there to run to the sticks, catch the ball, and get the first down. David Givens was a possession receiver. Jakobi Meyers was a possession guy. Juju is no possession guy. Well, prime Juju at least. That guy was a playmaker. I guess this version is a possession guy because he just mostly falls down after the catch or gets immediately tackled now. When he was at his best he’s a guy you get out in space and have run through arm tacklers ^like this guy doesn’t exist right now ^not explosive at all. Is that the argument we’re really going to make? The guy with multiple 90+ yard touchdowns has never been explosive? If you got him the ball he used to make plays. As recently as last year too! He has no chemistry with Mac- that’s obvious- but he doesn’t look like the same guy either. He used to be dangerous with the ball in his hands, I don’t want to speak for everybody but I definitely don’t feel that anymore. Maybe he can be dealt if he restructures so KC takes on no risk getting him back. I don’t see it happening though. |
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 19, 2023 9:00:24 GMT -5
2 things with regards to the Chiefs offense, besides one of the best QBs in NFL history.
1. Their offensive line is very good
2. Kelce demands double teams and still produces. NFL offenses struggle when NO ONE requires a double team to slow them down. It opens up everything especially pash rushing options.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Oct 19, 2023 10:29:06 GMT -5
www.nfl.com/prospects/juju-smith-schuster/3200534d-4982-9709-6877-2f8181b1e986That's his scouting report coming out, given your recent comments I don't really think you know who JuJu is as a player. He's never been an explosive player or one with good speed. He's a possession receiver with yac ability. One guy with no inside knowledge makes a comment and you run with it. He's had almost no chances all year in space, they've used Douglas for those routes. What plays do you see with him struggling off one foot? I see no chemistry between him and Mac Jones. Douglas is clearly better and he's similar to Bourne. Take Jackson, Chargers were going to release him, he's not even fully healthy, still first two games have been darn good. Style of play and fit matters. He'd cost almost nothing in salary this year and I bet he'd be willing to redo next years salary to get back to Chiefs and a QB he has chemistry with. Hardman does nothing to help with the two slot players that aren't playing well for them. You realize you have to be powerful/explosive to be a YAC guy right? But yeah sure I know nothing. He has no ability to make plays after the catch now, his power is gone. He used to power/explode through tackles. He doesn’t do that now. I’m not making the claim that he used to jet by guys like Tyreek Hill I run with it because he barely did anything this summer! And then looks like this now! FTR possessions receivers can’t be YAC guys imo. They’re guys with reliable hands that you send out there to run to the sticks, catch the ball, and get the first down. David Givens was a possession receiver. Jakobi Meyers was a possession guy. Juju is no possession guy. Well, prime Juju at least. That guy was a playmaker. I guess this version is a possession guy because he just mostly falls down after the catch or gets immediately tackled now. When he was at his best he’s a guy you get out in space and have run through arm tacklers ^like this guy doesn’t exist right now ^not explosive at all. Is that the argument we’re really going to make? The guy with multiple 90+ yard touchdowns has never been explosive? If you got him the ball he used to make plays. As recently as last year too! He has no chemistry with Mac- that’s obvious- but he doesn’t look like the same guy either. He used to be dangerous with the ball in his hands, I don’t want to speak for everybody but I definitely don’t feel that anymore. Maybe he can be dealt if he restructures so KC takes on no risk getting him back. I don’t see it happening though. Guys can do yac multiple ways and no by NFL standards he's never been explosive. You can pick a few plays from any player and say look he's explosive. He's a possession receiver with yac ability that comes from strength and a little bit of juke. Don't act like I'm crazy, I backed up my claims with his scouting report coming from college. I picked that because that was peak JuJu. As his career has gone on you see less and less of that. Where's the bombs last year from Mahomes the best deep ball passer I've ever seen? Douglas and Boutte had more explosive college tape than Juju did. As you watched in that Chiefs video Mahomes danced around in pocket, bought Juju a ton of time for D to breakdown and the bills missed a tackle. If you force feed him the ball all season long I'd bet he have a few of those. We can't give him extra time for D to breakdown and have him get open and he isn't on same page with Mac Jones as we've seen on multiple throws. I'd bet day one of Chiefs he'd look like a different player and people would be bitching. Just like I bet the Charger fans are watching Jackson play well on the Patriots. Again this isn’t just me, but literally what his scouting report out of college said about him by a trusted source that knows what he's talking about. |
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