gerry
Veteran
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Posts: 1,664
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Post by gerry on Sept 12, 2023 1:38:59 GMT -5
Ouch!!!
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Post by terriblehondo on Sept 12, 2023 5:25:10 GMT -5
So now there is a different category for sucking. If we don't have a Stanton type contract do the Sox suck less? Not in my book but I come from a time before participation trophys were presented. Only one team from each league went to the series but the bar keeps lowering so set your sights lower. I think they are both mediocre by todays standards. By the standards I started watching baseball with they both suck. Fewer bad contracts make the Red Sox easier to fix in a shorter time frame…. The record is the record, but the underlying contracts make the future outcomes different. No, it does not make the future outcomes different. It has the potential to make the future outcomes different. Potential is so often never realized.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Sept 12, 2023 6:10:42 GMT -5
Yeah the MFY are horrible and they are only 2 back in the loss column. Kind of puts the Sox in the same boat. Well, if you lined up the Sox pitching staff as the previous poster lined up the Yankee lineup, wouldn't Bello be listed as Bello, like Judge is listed as Judge? Martin would be listed as Martin. And how would the rest of the staff be described?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 12, 2023 7:12:20 GMT -5
Yeah the MFY are horrible and they are only 2 back in the loss column. Kind of puts the Sox in the same boat. Well, if you lined up the Sox pitching staff as the previous poster lined up the Yankee lineup, wouldn't Bello be listed as Bello, like Judge is listed as Judge? Martin would be listed as Martin. And how would the rest of the staff be described? The Yankees are 22nd in pitching fWAR but they're 10th in ERA, which is a little inexplicable given that a) they're 22nd in WAR, and b) after Cole their rotation consists of Rodon who's been terrible and mostly injured, Severino who's been terrible and sometimes injured, Cortes who's been bad and mostly injured, German who's been bad and is an alcoholic, and Schmidt who's been kind of bad.
I guess Judge + Cole + a great bullpen is enough to get you to ~.500.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 12, 2023 8:08:08 GMT -5
Well, if you lined up the Sox pitching staff as the previous poster lined up the Yankee lineup, wouldn't Bello be listed as Bello, like Judge is listed as Judge? Martin would be listed as Martin. And how would the rest of the staff be described? The Yankees are 22nd in pitching fWAR but they're 10th in ERA, which is a little inexplicable given that a) they're 22nd in WAR, and b) after Cole their rotation consists of Rodon who's been terrible and mostly injured, Severino who's been terrible and sometimes injured, Cortes who's been bad and mostly injured, German who's been bad and is an alcoholic, and Schmidt who's been kind of bad.
I guess Judge + Cole + a great bullpen is enough to get you to ~.500.
Considering Judge missed a good chunk of the year with his toe injury, it really is pretty amazing to see the Yankees record isn't just plain awful.
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Post by rhswanzey on Sept 12, 2023 9:10:50 GMT -5
What do you do if you're Brian Cashman this offseason? They need a couple of bats. But also their rotation next season, as it stands, is:
Cole
Rodon Cortes German Schmidt
After Cole, that... gets pretty uncomfortable. Do you go after another top-tier starter because you're the Yankees and YOLO? But then you've got yet another big contract for the 2026-28 or so years. Do you patch it up with a one-year deal or two?
Even with all the giant question marks, you can argue this rotation is in better shape than Boston’s, because Cole is more ace than Bello #2/#3, and the rest (for both teams) is a bunch of giant question marks and one decent #4/#5. Getting the innings chewing ace is the hardest part.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 12, 2023 9:18:27 GMT -5
What do you do if you're Brian Cashman this offseason? They need a couple of bats. But also their rotation next season, as it stands, is:
Cole
Rodon Cortes German Schmidt
After Cole, that... gets pretty uncomfortable. Do you go after another top-tier starter because you're the Yankees and YOLO? But then you've got yet another big contract for the 2026-28 or so years. Do you patch it up with a one-year deal or two?
Even with all the giant question marks, you can argue this rotation is in better shape than Boston’s, because Cole is more ace than Bello #2/#3, and the rest (for both teams) is a bunch of giant question marks and one decent #4/#5. Getting the innings chewing ace is the hardest part. Well the Red Sox obviously need to add two starters, maybe three. But they have the money to do it and their long-term books are open enough to allow them to make major additions. They also probably only need to sign one free agent hitter. The question for the Yankees is how much they're willing to spend, and where do they spend it: their lineup is totally ragged, but their rotation is in pretty ragged shape as well.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 12, 2023 9:34:10 GMT -5
Think about how much better shape our bullpen would be in day in and day out if we had just one more starter that can reliably go 6 innings, never mind two. There have been so many games that have been essentially forfeited due to a fatigued bullpen - more games than I ever remember in any season.
Burnes Yamamoto Bello Sale Houck/Crawford/Pivetta
Jensen Martin Schreiber Whitlock Bernardino Winckowski 1 or 2 of Houck/Crawford/Pivetta
Cue the duck boats.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2023 11:09:59 GMT -5
This can't be playing well with ownership, especially since many teams sell hundreds if not thousands of tickets every game directly on the secondary market as a revenue source. At the very least it shows market dilution of your product value. I mean as the article states. Weather this week is most likely playing a large factor I get that, but it also said that the prices were like some non-Sox v NYY games. Which means there's been more series/games, weather or not, that have been selling below face value.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Sept 12, 2023 11:10:20 GMT -5
LHP Sandoval goes for LAA vs. SEA, late tonight
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2023 11:20:35 GMT -5
Think about how much better shape our bullpen would be in day in and day out if we had just one more starter that can reliably go 6 innings, never mind two. There have been so many games that have been essentially forfeited due to a fatigued bullpen - more games than I ever remember in any season. BurnesYamamotoBello Sale Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Jensen Martin Schreiber Whitlock Bernardino Winckowski 1 or 2 of Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Cue the duck boats. Do we think Milwaukee will trade Burnes? In an open league bidding for his 1-year services, the prospect price will still be pretty steep. And do we think the Sox will trade all that controllable talent for a pitcher with one year of control? As for steep bidding, the league knows about Yamamoto, so he may get obscene money and years. Given he's 25 he may get 8 or more years on the (insane, looking at this past year) open market. This is especially so when several teams were seeing those latter years as the cost of doing business. These are both not impossible gets, but one only sets you up for a year and the other sets you up for the same kind of long-term regret Mr. Bloom was brought here to avoid.
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Post by scottysmalls on Sept 12, 2023 11:22:00 GMT -5
Think about how much better shape our bullpen would be in day in and day out if we had just one more starter that can reliably go 6 innings, never mind two. There have been so many games that have been essentially forfeited due to a fatigued bullpen - more games than I ever remember in any season. BurnesYamamotoBello Sale Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Jensen Martin Schreiber Whitlock Bernardino Winckowski 1 or 2 of Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Cue the duck boats. Do we think Milwaukee will trade Burnes? In an open league bidding for his 1-year services, the prospect price will still be pretty steep. And do we think the Sox will trade all that controllable talent for a pitcher with one year of control? As for steep bidding, the league knows about Yamamoto, so he may get obscene money and years. Given he's 25 he may get 8 or more years on the (insane, looking at this past year) open market. This is especially so when several teams were seeing those latter years as the cost of doing business. These are both not impossible gets, but one only sets you up for a year and the other sets you up for the same kind of long-term regret Mr. Bloom was brought here to avoid. Bloom was not brought here to never sign a big contract again. Yamamoto being young and foreign (and therefore a possible discount) is so different from the risk of signing a Price type deal.
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Post by bloomstaxonomy on Sept 12, 2023 11:42:50 GMT -5
I should mention that any Corbin trade would necessitate an immediate extension to justify the prospect cost. Maybe something like 6/180.
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Post by Guidas on Sept 12, 2023 11:57:15 GMT -5
Do we think Milwaukee will trade Burnes? In an open league bidding for his 1-year services, the prospect price will still be pretty steep. And do we think the Sox will trade all that controllable talent for a pitcher with one year of control? As for steep bidding, the league knows about Yamamoto, so he may get obscene money and years. Given he's 25 he may get 8 or more years on the (insane, looking at this past year) open market. This is especially so when several teams were seeing those latter years as the cost of doing business. These are both not impossible gets, but one only sets you up for a year and the other sets you up for the same kind of long-term regret Mr. Bloom was brought here to avoid. Bloom was not brought here to never sign a big contract again. Yamamoto being young and foreign (and therefore a possible discount) is so different from the risk of signing a Price type deal. I agree about the big contract part. I just think years over six - esp for a guy who's never pitched in MLB - will be a problem, not just for him but also for ownership.
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 12, 2023 12:05:42 GMT -5
Think about how much better shape our bullpen would be in day in and day out if we had just one more starter that can reliably go 6 innings, never mind two. There have been so many games that have been essentially forfeited due to a fatigued bullpen - more games than I ever remember in any season. BurnesYamamotoBello Sale Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Jensen Martin Schreiber Whitlock Bernardino Winckowski 1 or 2 of Houck/Crawford/Pivetta Cue the duck boats. Do we think Milwaukee will trade Burnes? In an open league bidding for his 1-year services, the prospect price will still be pretty steep. And do we think the Sox will trade all that controllable talent for a pitcher with one year of control? As for steep bidding, the league knows about Yamamoto, so he may get obscene money and years. Given he's 25 he may get 8 or more years on the (insane, looking at this past year) open market. This is especially so when several teams were seeing those latter years as the cost of doing business. These are both not impossible gets, but one only sets you up for a year and the other sets you up for the same kind of long-term regret Mr. Bloom was brought here to avoid. I do think Milwaukee trades either Burnes or Woodruff, they both are FAs after next year and they almost certainly can't afford both. Heck I don't know if they can afford either so it wouldn't shock me if they dealt both. I don't know though, there hasn't been a whole lot of trades of guys during FA with just one year remaining, would the prospect package be that heavy for one of them? Teams are ultra conservative these days with their prospects and trading.
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Post by manfred on Sept 12, 2023 12:49:37 GMT -5
Is it fair to say ceasefire on larger discussions of past and future and simply see this as 4 games in defense of all that is holy and right in the world?
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 12, 2023 12:53:28 GMT -5
Boy its nice not having Kiké playing SS anymore
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 12, 2023 12:54:14 GMT -5
Extend Nick Pivetta
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Post by carl4sox on Sept 12, 2023 12:57:15 GMT -5
Second that on Nick
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Post by incandenza on Sept 12, 2023 12:59:59 GMT -5
Ah, I see I get to root against the NYPD today.
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Post by manfred on Sept 12, 2023 13:07:55 GMT -5
I know I’m setting myself up for heartbreak, but yeah… extend him.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 12, 2023 13:09:50 GMT -5
It has not been going great for the Yankees end of season youth movement
Jasson Dominguez torn UCL Oswald Peraza .188/.278/.232 Everson Pereira .150/.239/.200 Austin Wells .095/.167/.143
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Post by manfred on Sept 12, 2023 13:16:44 GMT -5
It has not been going great for the Yankees end of season youth movement Jasson Dominguez torn UCL Oswald Peraza .188/.278/.232 Everson Pereira .150/.239/.200 Austin Wells .095/.167/.143 This pitcher looks pretty good, though.
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radiohix
Veteran
'At the end of the day, we bang. We bang. We're going to swing.' Alex Verdugo
Posts: 6,285
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Post by radiohix on Sept 12, 2023 13:17:10 GMT -5
I'll go to war with the new look Nicky Pivetta as my number 5 starter.
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Post by rhswanzey on Sept 12, 2023 13:25:05 GMT -5
Red Sox starting pitchers have recorded an out in the sixth inning in 51 starts this year - worst in MLB.
Nick Pivetta did that 17 times last year.
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