SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Predicting The 2024 Opening Day Roster
|
Post by chaimtime on Jan 1, 2024 16:04:41 GMT -5
Still a ton of work to do if we're going by projections: In the AL only Sox are tenth in total WAR, ranking tenth in positional player and fifth in pitching. In projected wOBA, they are tied for third with TEX behind HOU and NYY. It’s the defensive component that weighs them down, with Wong, Duran, Devers, Story (?!) and Grissom as the main culprits. Wong, Duran and Story seem too low. Guessing they have story DHing more than he actually will next year
|
|
|
Post by rhswanzey on Jan 1, 2024 16:05:32 GMT -5
Likely a better market for Kenley (and Martin) at the deadline, as long as each is healthy. Payroll dollars saved aren’t clearly going to get reinvested into new players and at this point everyone needs to be putting tremendous pressure on the ownership group about it imo. The “trade Kenley and replace him with less expensive pitcher X” type takes over the years usually avoid the obvious question: if that sounds like a good idea for Boston, why wouldn’t the acquiring team simply go out and sign less expensive pitcher X? Because boston is at a different point in their rebuild/contention window than other teams and have other needs. Paying a closer 16 million when your roster is otherwise complete is a fine idea. Doing it when your a middle of the road team feels like mismanaging resources. Agreed on putting pressure on ownership, but if they have a set budget trading kenley does free up some space. In a perfect world they just go over the tax and sign good players, but that’s obviously not going to happen. But if the budget is 225 million again, i don’t think they’re gonna trade kenley and just pocket the money, it would ideally go to someone else. Oh I don’t dispute that it makes some sense for Boston to explore it. If 16 is a lot for us, it probably isn’t cheap to another team either, even in true contention. I might just prefer to sign Hicks or Stephenson than spend assets on a more expensive reliever. Granted, Kenley is a tier above those arms.
|
|
|
Post by classylefthander on Jan 1, 2024 16:14:46 GMT -5
[quote author=" chaimtime" [/quote]Guessing they have story DHing more than he actually will next year[/quote] 21 PAs as DH of 630 total PAs
|
|
|
Post by wanderingdude on Jan 1, 2024 16:51:37 GMT -5
Because boston is at a different point in their rebuild/contention window than other teams and have other needs. Paying a closer 16 million when your roster is otherwise complete is a fine idea. Doing it when your a middle of the road team feels like mismanaging resources. Agreed on putting pressure on ownership, but if they have a set budget trading kenley does free up some space. In a perfect world they just go over the tax and sign good players, but that’s obviously not going to happen. But if the budget is 225 million again, i don’t think they’re gonna trade kenley and just pocket the money, it would ideally go to someone else. Oh I don’t dispute that it makes some sense for Boston to explore it. If 16 is a lot for us, it probably isn’t cheap to another team either, even in true contention. I might just prefer to sign Hicks or Stephenson than spend assets on a more expensive reliever. Granted, Kenley is a tier above those arms. For sure. The hope would be a contending team would be okay with spending the few extra dollars for the upgrade. Over 162 the difference between kenley and one of those guys is probably minimal, but the playoffs are a different animal and that minor upgrade can be worth it then compared to a team like the red sox just trying to get there in the first place. But i agree with your overall point, i don’t think it’s easy to trade him and the market for him might not be much
|
|
|
Post by Underwater Johnson on Jan 1, 2024 17:54:44 GMT -5
The overall idea with the Worcester rotation is that by the end of 2024 we should know which of these guys is a legit rotation piece for 2025 in Boston. If just one pans out, now you’ve got Bello, Crawford, and one more cheap starter under control for multiple years. If two pan out, that’s four homegrown guys and suddenly we’re the Mariners. The guys who aren’t starters should be solid bullpen pieces going forward. Fitts is the last one I'd take to make a spot start in April or open the season as starter #5, but despite his limited track record I think Fitts has the highest chance to be that cheap mid/backend starter in that 2025 on window. Not like I've watched him much but he has a good build, sounds like a good fastball that should let him go deep in games, and he's working on tweaking secondaries that will determine if he's a starter or ends up in that multi inning bucket down the road. He's done enough in AA I'd like to see him get a chance to go vs AAA hitters, leaving him in a league he has already outperformed instead of challenging him would seem too cute. Shoot, Houck averaged over 5 IP in 21 starts last year and has pitched 250 in MLB, if we don't sign another starter and just want to roll with him as starter 5(/6) I don't think he really needs to be stretched out past ST and I don't know how much we'd learn from him throwing vs AAA hitters at this point. (Plus if we're looking for a cheap multiyear starter he's multiple years closer to FA already than Fitts or Winc are.) Winc seems like a much more plausible AAA starting guy, Houck is a proven MLB pitcher. I agree. Houck’s main issue is he needs to get lefties out. Maybe he can continue to work on that in Boston. My original thinking about him in Worcester was that he could work on that without worrying about game results. If Bailey can fix that issue, I think Houck has a legit 1/2 ceiling. I also agree that Fitts should be in Worcester. With the new Minor League schedules, it makes sense for them to go to a 6-man rotation in Worcester.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 1, 2024 17:56:59 GMT -5
Still a ton of work to do if we're going by projections: ... worth mentioning that Giolito isn’t included here because the deal isn’t official yet. FG has the rotation as Bello/Pivetta/Crawford/Houck/TBD right now. No, I'm pretty sure that includes Giolito. Look on their depth charts page.
It seems they're all but locked in to having the 5th best (aka worst) projection in the division. This very much remains a team that I don't want to borrow wins from the future to try to improve.
(But to be clear: they should try to improve without borrowing from the future. That WAR projection is already good enough that not too much has to go right for them to sneak into the playoffs.)
|
|
|
Post by keninten on Jan 1, 2024 18:21:00 GMT -5
Fitts is the last one I'd take to make a spot start in April or open the season as starter #5, but despite his limited track record I think Fitts has the highest chance to be that cheap mid/backend starter in that 2025 on window. Not like I've watched him much but he has a good build, sounds like a good fastball that should let him go deep in games, and he's working on tweaking secondaries that will determine if he's a starter or ends up in that multi inning bucket down the road. He's done enough in AA I'd like to see him get a chance to go vs AAA hitters, leaving him in a league he has already outperformed instead of challenging him would seem too cute. Shoot, Houck averaged over 5 IP in 21 starts last year and has pitched 250 in MLB, if we don't sign another starter and just want to roll with him as starter 5(/6) I don't think he really needs to be stretched out past ST and I don't know how much we'd learn from him throwing vs AAA hitters at this point. (Plus if we're looking for a cheap multiyear starter he's multiple years closer to FA already than Fitts or Winc are.) Winc seems like a much more plausible AAA starting guy, Houck is a proven MLB pitcher. I agree. Houck’s main issue is he needs to get lefties out. Maybe he can continue to work on that in Boston. My original thinking about him in Worcester was that he could work on that without worrying about game results. If Bailey can fix that issue, I think Houck has a legit 1/2 ceiling. I also agree that Fitts should be in Worcester. With the new Minor League schedules, it makes sense for them to go to a 6-man rotation in Worcester. I thought he looked a lot better last year against LHH.
|
|
|
Post by chaimtime on Jan 1, 2024 18:40:10 GMT -5
worth mentioning that Giolito isn’t included here because the deal isn’t official yet. FG has the rotation as Bello/Pivetta/Crawford/Houck/TBD right now. No, I'm pretty sure that includes Giolito. Look on their depth charts page.
It seems they're all but locked in to having the 5th best (aka worst) projection in the division. This very much remains a team that I don't want to borrow wins from the future to try to improve.
(But to be clear: they should try to improve without borrowing from the future. That WAR projection is already good enough that not too much has to go right for them to sneak into the playoffs.)
You’re right, he’s just not included when you search the 2024 FGDC projections by team. Wonder what the disconnect is there. You’re right on the main point that this is not a team to give up a huge prospect package to improve. I do think there’s room to get creative, though. That’s good, because I think it’s really important that the team is at least close to a playoff spot this year. I posted something in the trade proposal thread about some Luis Castillo rumors I’ve seen floating around. They need outfielders, and they need to cut salary. I think that’s the sort of move where Duran makes sense as a centerpiece—a quality veteran on a reasonable contract that his team might not be able to afford, rather than a young stud making pre-FA money. Not to veer too far into trade speculation, but their bullpen looks shallow and they’ve got Andrés Muñoz penciled in as their closer, who, while filthy, has blown 8 of his 26 save opportunities in his career. Maybe they’d have some interest in a Certified Proven Closer on a moderately subsidized salary... Edit: just to loop it back around to your point, I think Duran developing into a viable 2+ WAR player is kind of an unexpected boon for the long term plans, so I’m fine with using him in a non-rental trade. Castillo is a good example of a veteran that would command a prospect package and long-term salary that would be easier for the Red Sox to withstand than most teams and wouldn’t eat up all of their prospect capital or long-term payroll flexibility.
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Jan 1, 2024 19:35:49 GMT -5
I think what I struggled to articulate a few days ago is that I think Teoscar Hernandez, while not a great player, raises the floor of the offense considerably. I have more faith in Duran to build on his 2023 season, but while Abreu and Rafaela are exciting players, I think we need to be prepared for them to fail and see how they adjust and bounce before relying on them as contributors to the 2024 team. I think the opinions here (perhaps more so on social media than here) are pretty polarized in the sense that some project Rafaela as a 2+ WAR player (bullish), and some want to see him get another half season in AAA before recalling him (bearish). You can convince me that Rafaela deserves a proper shot, but I think some people don't realize just how low the floor is for Abreu. To rely on all 3 to perform consistently as valuable contributors is an incredibly precarious situation. Why not both on Rafaela? I think WAR will love his defense and baserunning enough he can hit 2 WAR even with the 133/23 type K/BB ratio ZIPS projects, but I'd rather he start in AAA unless for whatever reason enough PT for regular at bats opens up. Still I'd rather he eventually gets a real chance to show if he can be an outlier who barrels balls despite his OZ swing% even at the MLB level, and I'd rather he does before Anthony is knocking on the door as well. Grissom lessens the need for the lineup balance Teo would provide... agree he raises the floor but I'd rather not go 3+ years unless we have a young OF trade lined up (albeit 3rd year is almost certainly the cost of doing business so I'dbe fine with that, hope he'd be tradeable). Grissom really growing on me as I read more. Bat speed questions but has the size and top end EV's for some power if he can improve there. Love the home/road splits, lack of platoon splits, even the alleged 1.100ish OPS his last 2 months on AAA last year. Could be ugly as he learns the position but he's played so few innings at 2B even in the minors it's really understandable to me if he didn't have the footwork down yet. Even .280/.330/.380 with like -5 to -10 defense would be worth it, upside seems so much higher.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 2, 2024 10:19:37 GMT -5
I thought he looked a lot better last year against LHH. Vs. LHB: .271/.356/.502, .366 wOBA Vs. RHB: .236/.297/.325, .277 wOBA
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jan 2, 2024 13:41:38 GMT -5
I'll do a New Year's prediction:
C - Wong 1B - Casas 2B - Grissom 3B - Devers SS - Story LF - Duran/O'Neill CF - Rafaela RF - Abreu/O'Neill DH - Yoshida
C - McGuire INF - Reyes OF - Refsnyder
SP - Montgomery SP - Giolito SP - Bello SP - Crawford SP - Pivetta
RP - Martin RP - Schreiber RP - Bernardino RP - Whitlock RP - Houck RP - Winckowski RP - Suter RP - Slaten
Further moves: - Montgomery signed for ~$25M - Suter signed for ~$4M - Jansen traded for a prospect shedding ~$8M - Casas extended adding ~$5M
Leaves them about $5Mish under the LTT.
Other roster choices I would not be surprised by: - Imanaga signing - Trade for young controlled SP, with Duran, Houck, Yorke, Mayer, Abreu, Valdez among the more obvious candidates to be included - If they do that I could see Manaea or Ryu being signed also rather than Montgomery, pushing Crawford or Pivetta to the pen - Signing an OF if they do trade Duran/Abreu. I still think Bader makes a lot of sense (even without a Duran trade), but could see Hernandez or Duvall fitting too, especially if they move a corner guy - Starting the year with Rafaela in AAA, Duran/O'Neill in center, and either Dalbec or Valdez on the bench
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on Jan 2, 2024 13:44:44 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by keninten on Jan 2, 2024 14:36:06 GMT -5
I thought he looked a lot better last year against LHH. Vs. LHB: .271/.356/.502, .366 wOBA Vs. RHB: .236/.297/.325, .277 wOBA Better than he had been in previous years is what I meant. Hopefully he is trending in that way.
|
|
|
Post by bosoxkc on Jan 2, 2024 16:05:52 GMT -5
I'll do a New Year's prediction: C - Wong 1B - Casas 2B - Grissom 3B - Devers SS - Story LF - Duran/O'Neill CF - Rafaela RF - Abreu/O'Neill DH - Yoshida C - McGuire INF - Reyes OF - Refsnyder SP - Montgomery SP - Giolito SP - Bello SP - Crawford SP - Pivetta RP - Martin RP - Schreiber RP - Bernardino RP - Whitlock RP - Houck RP - Winckowski RP - Suter RP - Slaten Further moves: - Montgomery signed for ~$25M - Suter signed for ~$4M - Jansen traded for a prospect shedding ~$8M - Casas extended adding ~$5M Leaves them about $5Mish under the LTT. Other roster choices I would not be surprised by: - Imanaga signing - Trade for young controlled SP, with Duran, Houck, Yorke, Mayer, Abreu, Valdez among the more obvious candidates to be included - If they do that I could see Manaea or Ryu being signed also rather than Montgomery, pushing Crawford or Pivetta to the pen - Signing an OF if they do trade Duran/Abreu. I still think Bader makes a lot of sense (even without a Duran trade), but could see Hernandez or Duvall fitting too, especially if they move a corner guy - Starting the year with Rafaela in AAA, Duran/O'Neill in center, and either Dalbec or Valdez on the bench
|
|
|
Post by bosoxkc on Jan 2, 2024 16:12:45 GMT -5
Pretty much nailed it. Just a few other possibilities. Definitely resign Duval Stephenson vs. Suter Yes on Imanaga (maybe Pivetta excels in BP for a year) Sign Sanchez at C, drop McGuire. Rather have Wong/Sanchez against RHH Casas/Bello extensions begin next year Think Houck/Yorke/Bastardo/Dalbec+ can get Espino (CLE)/Brown (Cubs)
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 2, 2024 16:14:48 GMT -5
Vs. LHB: .271/.356/.502, .366 wOBA Vs. RHB: .236/.297/.325, .277 wOBA Better than he had been in previous years is what I meant. Hopefully he is trending in that way. He is not. 2022: .259/.376/.400, .338 wOBA 2021: .231/.309/.331, .282 wOBA Note much smaller sample sizes in prior seasons.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jan 2, 2024 16:33:29 GMT -5
Only if they're willing to settle for a guy who is 1-2 years away. Through various injuries, Mayer has lost a year of development time. He's still a top guy, but he's got some work to do. He may exceed expectations and jump two levels this year and be ready for next year, but projecting him to start in MLB this year is very likely a stretch.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,804
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jan 2, 2024 16:51:21 GMT -5
Luzardo is good, maybe even great if he can stay healthy but I wouldn't trade 6+ years of Mayer for 3 of Luzardo. I do have a bad feeling we are going to see a trade for a pitcher that is going to hurt the farm more than I would like to see though.
|
|
|
Post by wanderingdude on Jan 2, 2024 16:55:47 GMT -5
Luzardo is good, maybe even great if he can stay healthy but I wouldn't trade 6+ years of Mayer for 3 of Luzardo. I do have a bad feeling we are going to see a trade for a pitcher that is going to hurt the farm more than I would like to see though. It’s pretty wild the Luzardo went for two months of starling marte a couple of years ago and is now going to go for like a top 20ish prospect. Excellent job by miami’s front office, and by their pitching dev department.
|
|
|
Post by dirtywaterinla on Jan 2, 2024 18:02:14 GMT -5
Luzardo is good, maybe even great if he can stay healthy but I wouldn't trade 6+ years of Mayer for 3 of Luzardo. I do have a bad feeling we are going to see a trade for a pitcher that is going to hurt the farm more than I would like to see though. As noted by others, Mayer is no guaranteed stud especially seeing his injury prone nature the past couple of seasons. I’ll take a frontline SP w/ 3+ years of control over a highly ranked AA position prospect any day of the week. Edit: with the exception of Teel seeing catchers like him don’t grow on trees.
|
|
|
Post by ephus on Jan 2, 2024 19:04:19 GMT -5
This Opening Day line-up has an average age of 26.8 as of Opening Day. I do not rememeber a younger line-up in more than 40 years of being a fan. 1B: Triston Casas (24) 2B: Vaughn Grissom (23) SS: Trevor Story (31) 3B: Rafael Devers (27) C: Connor Wong (27) LF: Tyler O'Neil (28) CF: Jarren Duran (27) RF: Wilyer Abreu (24) DH: Masa Yoshida (30)
More importantly, only one player is a FA in 2024-2025, and the vast core is under team control beyond 2028. This is rather ridiculous. And with another wave of top talent coming soon, we are going to see home growth competition for roster spots that maintain financial flexibility and the ability to trade for needed pieces.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jan 2, 2024 19:11:58 GMT -5
This Opening Day line-up has an average age of 26.8 as of Opening Day. I do not rememeber a younger line-up in more than 40 years of being a fan. 1B: Triston Casas (24) 2B: Vaughn Grissom (23) SS: Trevor Story (31) 3B: Rafael Devers (27) C: Connor Wong (27) LF: Tyler O'Neil (28) CF: Jarren Duran (27) RF: Wilyer Abreu (24) DH: Masa Yoshida (30) More importantly, only one player is a FA in 2024-2025, and the vast core is under team control beyond 2028. This is rather ridiculous. And with another wave of top talent coming soon, we are going to see home growth competition for roster spots that maintain financial flexibility and the ability to trade for needed pieces. For that matter, the old man of the starting rotation, at least for the moment, is Nick Pivetta.
|
|
|
Post by keninten on Jan 2, 2024 19:24:13 GMT -5
Better than he had been in previous years is what I meant. Hopefully he is trending in that way. He is not. 2022: .259/.376/.400, .338 wOBA 2021: .231/.309/.331, .282 wOBA Note much smaller sample sizes in prior seasons. The facts beat my eyes.
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on Jan 2, 2024 19:56:08 GMT -5
One has to think that a big trade is coming. Castillo's signing puts the 40 man at 40 and Giotillo is official yet.
|
|
|
Post by wanderingdude on Jan 2, 2024 20:23:14 GMT -5
One has to think that a big trade is coming. Castillo's signing puts the 40 man at 40 and Giotillo is official yet. eh maybe they have a trade lined up but there are a couple of guys at the end of the 40 they should have no trouble DFA’ing
|
|
|