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5/3-5/5 Red Sox @ Rangers Series Thread
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Post by jrffam05 on May 3, 2013 20:42:47 GMT -5
its almost funny when 3 straight pitchers are shown as balls in the strike zone by the gameday feed While I never trust game day or on screen strike zones, he is getting screwed tonight
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Post by bjb406 on May 3, 2013 21:32:17 GMT -5
clearly Doubront was throwing spitballs
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Post by soxfan06 on May 3, 2013 21:34:34 GMT -5
So sick of Doubront.
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station13
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Post by station13 on May 3, 2013 22:23:56 GMT -5
Doubront act is tiring.
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Post by Don Caballero on May 3, 2013 22:31:15 GMT -5
I like Doubront, I think he got screwed tonight while also not having his best stuff. But is there anyone right now that doesn't think Webster is like already a better pitcher than him?
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Post by marrcus on May 3, 2013 22:44:51 GMT -5
"Doubront act is tiring.' ---------------------- He's one of the club's weakest links but he still could come on some. It would help more pr-wise if he looked a little more determined out there.
It will be interesting trade deadline if RS don't falter much and are relatively inj free. C, LF, LHSP improvements would be very interesting.
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Post by mainesox on May 3, 2013 22:55:53 GMT -5
I like Doubront, I think he got screwed tonight while also not having his best stuff. But is there anyone right now that doesn't think Webster is like already a better pitcher than him? I certainly don't think he's worse. My real question would be do you trade Doubront to maximize his value, or do you move him to the 'pen and upgrade the team all around (likely hurting his trade value in the process)? My gut feel is they keep giving Doubront starts until the trade deadline and try to work him into a trade.
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Post by grandsalami on May 3, 2013 22:57:33 GMT -5
fair strike zone my ass
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Post by gatortough on May 4, 2013 8:46:44 GMT -5
If I were betting I would say Doubront will be either DL's, or moved either back to triple A or traded sooner rather than later. His velocity dip is alarming. Farrell said it was inexplicable lack of arm speed. He came into ST out of shape, maybe arm fatigue? Either way with that velocity he's going to get knocked around consistently. All told I really hope he returns to form, if for no other reason than I don't think he's a good trade candidate until his velocity dip is explained and fixed. www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1478&position=P&pitch=FA
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sarasoxer
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Post by sarasoxer on May 4, 2013 9:41:47 GMT -5
If I were betting I would say Doubront will be either DL's, or moved either back to triple A or traded sooner rather than later. His velocity dip is alarming. Farrell said it was inexplicable lack of arm speed. He came into ST out of shape, maybe arm fatigue? Either way with that velocity he's going to get knocked around consistently. All told I really hope he returns to form, if for no other reason than I don't think he's a good trade candidate until his velocity dip is explained and fixed. www.fangraphs.com/pitchfxo.aspx?playerid=1478&position=P&pitch=FAI don't think Doubront will be traded any time soon. Let's not forget that it was only 'yesterday' that people were saying he was one of the emerging LHs in the game. It is a bit disturbing that he has twice come to camp out of shape. Without good velocity and the confidence that it brings, his marginal control is much worse. I suspect that he indeed has a dead or weakened arm and, depending on the causative factor, will either be rested completely or go back to arm strengthening exercises. (I'll bet the Sox do some tests in the next few days.) Either way could lead to the DL with Webster being given another interim start. Aceves could also be a candidate but I don't believe that he has another option left so, probably not him....Rubby has dropped from 'view' with a pitch limit and prospects for conversion to relief.
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Post by charliezink16 on May 4, 2013 9:55:16 GMT -5
Honestly, with no options remaining for Doubront, Boston needs to get his situation under control. He's shown his irresponsibility, so I'd love to see some sort of mandatory/controlled off-season conditioning program (if that's allowed) after the season. If he can't get himself in shape, they won't have many options with him over the next 2 or so years, and I'd hate to see some other team straighten him out and reap the benefits of it.
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Post by godot on May 4, 2013 10:12:01 GMT -5
Besides coming into camp out of shape, don't forget Felix pitched over 160 innings last year, about a 60 inning jump from the year before. Thanks Bobby V. Morales also jumped from the pen to starting, thanks again.
The chances of Felix regain velocity this year are not great. Likewise, it will be some time before Morales finds his way back. Maybe he needs to be put on the Dl, then rehab. Does anyone see time in the pen helping instead?
But anyway you look at his situation means more use for the pen. You never have enough pitching.
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Post by gatortough on May 4, 2013 10:12:05 GMT -5
When I think of Doubront's ridiculous talent and his lack of discipline all I can think of is:
NUKE How come you don't like me?
CRASH 'Cause you don't respect yourself, which is your problem, but you don't respect the game--and that's my problem. (beat) You got a gift.
NUKE What do I got?
CRASH A gift. When you were a baby the gods reached down and turned your left arm into a thunderbolt.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on May 4, 2013 10:50:00 GMT -5
Doubront is one of those guys who'll never quite be what we hope he can be. I think it's a reasonable guess that the innings jump from last year is affecting him and he did nothing over the offseason to strengthen himself, and here we are - he probably has a dead arm, which would explain his lack of velocity.
My guess is if the velocity stays down we'll see him DLed at some point and my guess is we'll see Allen Webster sooner than later.
Doubront will eventually slide into the role Franklin Morales and/or Alfredo Aceves was supposed to have and will pitch out of the pen as a long man, second lefty, and the guy to fill in the rotation when somebody out of Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Webster, and Dempster miss a turn.
Ultimately as De La Rosa, Barnes, Ranaudo (glad to have his name on this list), Wright, and Owens start knocking on the door, Doubront will wind up dealt away, and some other team will try to get the most out of him, even if he doesn't help himself.
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Post by godot on May 4, 2013 16:41:54 GMT -5
To change the subject, is anyone a tad concerned about Ellsbury's offense. He seems to be hitting more defensively and not driving the ball consistently. I am not that concerned about the lack of home runs, but he does not seem to be hitting with that much authority. Most of his hits are singles and a number are dinky ( but can't quantify and haven't seen the majority of his abats).
It is still relatively early, and he will probably will not duplicate 2011. Perhaps it takes even long to regain strength in that shoulder area than we believe. His average is okay, base stealing is fine, taking a few walks, and leads in runs score by a couple. Still.... maybe I just expected more or maybe I am just wrong and off base. Is anyone else a little concerned.
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Post by mattpicard on May 4, 2013 16:53:18 GMT -5
To change the subject, is anyone a tad concerned about Ellsbury's offense. He seems to be hitting more defensively and not driving the ball consistently. I am not that concerned about the lack of home runs, but he does not seem to be hitting with that much authority. Most of his hits are singles and a number are dinky ( but can't quantify and haven't seen the majority of his abats). It is still relatively early, and he will probably will not duplicate 2011. Perhaps it takes even long to regain strength in that shoulder area than we believe. His average is okay, base stealing is fine, taking a few walks, and leads in runs score by a couple. Still.... maybe I just expected more or maybe I am just wrong and off base. Is anyone else a little concerned. I agree, and as I mentioned in danr's thread today, I'm really interested to see what kind of contract he receives if this is more or less how he'll play all season. Right now we're looking at a .286/.338/.405 slash line, 6 HR and 67 RBI, 61/11 SB/CS if you project his current numbers over a 162 game season. And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if that's close to where he ends up. He is on pace for 34 doubles and 17 triples, so it's not like he isn't getting any XBH's, but he's not looking anything like the 2011 Jacoby. It's still early, but it's not unreasonable to think 2011 was a big outlier for him. I don't ever see Jacoby cracking over 20 bombs again, but I hope I'm wrong. Regardless, he's going to get a bigger contract than he deserves this offseason, and I'm comfortable moving on from him.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 4, 2013 17:07:06 GMT -5
Besides coming into camp out of shape, don't forget Felix pitched over 160 innings last year, about a 60 inning jump from the year before. Thanks Bobby V. Morales also jumped from the pen to starting, thanks again. Alright, seriously, when did this become a thing? Jumping 60 innings year over year is too much to ask a pitcher now? You know Chris Sale jumped 120 innings from '11 to '12 and his velocity is just fine this year. And that's the White Sox, who do as good a job keeping their pitchers healthy as anyone. And yeah, I know about the whole Verducci effect thing. Verducci's a good writer and he's got tremendous hair, but he's not much of an analyst.
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Post by godot on May 4, 2013 18:01:28 GMT -5
I would probably be the last one to argue the Verducci effect is a law and maybe not even a probability. It is a correlation and should not be taken as a causal statement. Indeed, if one spends the time to analyze his data ( and what he hasn't include) it may be reduced to the statement that many pitchers are more prone to injuries, perhaps more than everyday players. Suspect that there are many factors particular to that pitcher and perhaps dramatic use over a year ( perhaps even a few years) can contribute. Pitching is also a very violent action. You need to look at it case by case.
In Felix's case, what was his usage before 2012 , just what kind of condition was he in this spring, and what kind of work did he do in order to get into shape ( over short period of time). There are probably other factors. I am just wondering about the usage last year compared to to other years. In 2010 he pitched 105 ( combined majors and minors) and in 2011 a combined 77. If I recall correctly, he did tire last year around early August, was given some rest, and then came back good for the rest of the year. And they kept him in the area for an off season conditioning program for the 2012 season. Just wondering.
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Post by soxfan06 on May 4, 2013 21:03:18 GMT -5
Jarrod Saltamacchia needs to go.
Seriously, enough is enough. His ridiculous K rates. Along with his terrible defense and ability to call a game is more than enough to move him immediately.
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Post by Guidas on May 4, 2013 21:54:54 GMT -5
We're gonna get swept here aren't we.
We need an elie bat to increase the opportunity to score some of those many men left on base. A Manny Ramirez type circa 2004 say.
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Post by iakovos11 on May 4, 2013 21:58:05 GMT -5
Those are so easy to come by.
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Post by threeifbaerga on May 4, 2013 21:58:15 GMT -5
Wait. . . so the Sox weren't going to win 70% of their games?
The bats are slumping and Texas is very good. I'm not going to say they "need" to go out and get anything, or that Saltalamacchia is awful and needs to be drawn and quartered (seriously though, is that same exact post going to pop up every other game? He's not the best, we get it).
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Post by jmei on May 4, 2013 22:44:10 GMT -5
I mean, the Red Sox did get seven hits (including two extra-base hits), two walks, and a stolen base. It's not that the lineup was totally shut down, it's just that they had trouble stringing hits together-- they were 1-9 with RISP and stranded 9 baserunners. I wouldn't necessarily freak out about the offense just yet, although it sure would be nice to see Middlebrooks/Drew crack the Mendoza line in the next few weeks.
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Post by soxfan06 on May 4, 2013 22:49:26 GMT -5
Wait. . . so the Sox weren't going to win 70% of their games? The bats are slumping and Texas is very good. I'm not going to say they "need" to go out and get anything, or that Saltalamacchia is awful and needs to be drawn and quartered ( seriously though, is that same exact post going to pop up every other game? He's not the best, we get it). Until he is gone, you can be sure I will be trumpeting that OFTEN this year.
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Post by marrcus on May 4, 2013 22:52:56 GMT -5
Not exactly a surprise the series starts 0-2 but the thing I dread is Lester scattering 5-hits or something in game 3 and he ends up getting no support.
Yes it looks like a sweep but maybe JL plays stopper for the first time in I don't know how long?
WMB is a concern. Not the slow start but coming off the wrist surgery and seeming unable wait on the ball.
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