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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2024 15:09:34 GMT -5
No you incessantly choose to whine about others expressing unfavorable opinions on management. The "whining" comes from a place of caring, mostly from people who have spent most of their lives caring about this "product" and don't want to be in a place where their only choices are to shut up and take it or tune out. You choose not to react that way, that's fine, your choice,but don't put down others that dont't see it your way. If the shoe don't fit ... But, exactly how many redundancies does it take to form a whine? Ever travel with a child? "Are we almost there?" is a question. It might even be a reasonable one. When it is repeated, ad nauseum, is it still a question? In case you haven't noticed, this place has regular-ish posters so you get to the point where you know what somebody's opinion is going to be, even your opinion of others which has grown quite repetitive over time. The alternative is that posting can be at a total minimum where we can all check in each day, see that nothing has happened in Red Sox world, that nothing has been posted by anybody at all because it's already been covered, and then you can be appeased, but given that a lot of posters are regulars around here there is bound to be a repetition in opinion, even yours, especially when posters are starving for baseball talk.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 20, 2024 15:11:47 GMT -5
No you incessantly choose to whine about others expressing unfavorable opinions on management. The "whining" comes from a place of caring, mostly from people who have spent most of their lives caring about this "product" and don't want to be in a place where their only choices are to shut up and take it or tune out. You choose not to react that way, that's fine, your choice,but don't put down others that dont't see it your way. If the shoe don't fit ... But, exactly how many redundancies does it take to form a whine? Ever travel with a child? "Are we almost there?" is a question. It might even be a reasonable one. When it is repeated, ad nauseum, is it still a question? Except the "whining" isn't coming from the media or message board posters, now its coming from players, key players on this team. Its also coming from Sox Legends like Papelbon and Pedey. That carries a lot of weight. Thats also really not a good look at all.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 20, 2024 15:13:30 GMT -5
Since Devers isn't good enough or doesn't hustle or whatever, is there a current player on this roster who is allowed to call out ownership? If the answer is no, isn't that also an indictment on ownership? Well, sure. A religious quote says, He without sin, cast the first stone. I say, He who's resume is better than John Henry's, have your say. I also think a professional athlete's best focus ought be on their own game, not on who they think their teammates ought to be.
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Post by incandenza on Feb 20, 2024 15:14:55 GMT -5
Boy, good thing the free agency thread got shut down; now the same excruciating ownership/spending/PR conversation can flourish in every other thread.
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Post by puzzler on Feb 20, 2024 15:17:19 GMT -5
He never complained about them. He just quit. There's an example to follow! Hard to quit when you're under contract as a player. Well, that message was actually aimed at the 'fans'...
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Post by boylstonbarhopper on Feb 20, 2024 15:17:33 GMT -5
I dunno, not that hard to say you’re going to war with who we have and you have a lot of belief in your teammates. The goal is to win games not to be your authentic self while speaking to Rob Bradford. Why do you get to dictate what Rafael Devers' goals are?
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 20, 2024 15:18:39 GMT -5
Boy, good thing the free agency thread got shut down; now the same excruciating ownership/spending/PR conversation can flourish in every other thread. at this point every game thread will turn into this....
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Post by puzzler on Feb 20, 2024 15:19:17 GMT -5
Since Devers isn't good enough or doesn't hustle or whatever, is there a current player on this roster who is allowed to call out ownership? If the answer is no, isn't that also an indictment on ownership? Well, sure. A religious quote says, He without sin, cast the first stone. I say, He who's resume is better than John Henry's, have your say. I also think a professional athlete's best focus ought be on their own game, not on who they think their teammates ought to be. It's hard to think about improving your own game with only $330 million. Especially when we all know what's needed - they need to put him in a better position to succeed. They need to make better adjustments to help the players succeed. He doesn't need to run out groundballs or play decent defense or hit better or show any level of commitment to his teammates, he just needs to show up and throw bombs. That's about all $330 million buys you these days.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Feb 20, 2024 15:21:23 GMT -5
Boy, good thing the free agency thread got shut down; now the same excruciating ownership/spending/PR conversation can flourish in every other thread. They should open it back up, but somehow reroute the link to open to a Red Sox Facebook group page.
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Post by alexcorahomevideo on Feb 20, 2024 15:21:28 GMT -5
Boy, good thing the free agency thread got shut down; now the same excruciating ownership/spending/PR conversation can flourish in every other thread. at this point every game thread will turn into this.... Doesn't help that this is coming from the actual players. If they don't want this to turn into a chicken and beer type fiasco maybe this gets them to sign Montgomery or Snell. Kind of sucks the situation ownership put all these people in. Unless they trade the veterans who are disgruntled for pennies on the dollar to move on and just invest again when the prospects are ready, which honestly might be the best move.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 20, 2024 15:22:17 GMT -5
If the shoe don't fit ... But, exactly how many redundancies does it take to form a whine? Ever travel with a child? "Are we almost there?" is a question. It might even be a reasonable one. When it is repeated, ad nauseum, is it still a question? In case you haven't noticed, this place has regular-ish posters so you get to the point where you know what somebody's opinion is going to be, even your opinion of others which has grown quite repetitive over time. The alternative is that posting can be at a total minimum where we can all check in each day, see that nothing has happened in Red Sox world, that nothing has been posted by anybody at all because it's already been covered, and then you can be appeased, but given that a lot of posters are regulars around here there is bound to be a repition in opinion, even yours, especially when posters are starving for baseball talk. So whining is okay because it's better than quiet? Have you ever considered less repetition of opinion might open space for more original thoughts & information? I tend to avoid much of the Red Sox "discussion" because it is so repetitive. If one mind has been changed, or even slightly altered, in the incessant battle over FSG spending, I doubt it. Yet, on and on and on, like Spy vs. Spy. So, once per month or two I'll mention I don't share your complaint. JH has hung four banners & I'll wait and root for my Red Sox while he sorts out whatever he needs to sort out. I had Yawkey & Harrington before, I don't need to know who's behind Door #2.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2024 15:26:08 GMT -5
In case you haven't noticed, this place has regular-ish posters so you get to the point where you know what somebody's opinion is going to be, even your opinion of others which has grown quite repetitive over time. The alternative is that posting can be at a total minimum where we can all check in each day, see that nothing has happened in Red Sox world, that nothing has been posted by anybody at all because it's already been covered, and then you can be appeased, but given that a lot of posters are regulars around here there is bound to be a repition in opinion, even yours, especially when posters are starving for baseball talk. So whining is okay because it's better than quiet? Have you ever considered less repetition of opinion might open space for more original thoughts & information? I tend to avoid much of the Red Sox "discussion" because it is so repetitive. If one mind has been changed, or even slightly altered, in the incessant battle over FSG spending, I doubt it. Yet, on and on and on, like Spy vs. Spy. So, once per month or two I'll mention I don't share your complaint. JH has hung four banners & I'll wait and root for my Red Sox while he sorts out whatever he needs to sort out. I had Yawkey & Harrington before, I don't need to know who's behind Door #2. Do you think Belichick should coach the Pat's indefinitely? After all, nobody's track record will ever match his.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2024 15:30:27 GMT -5
In case you haven't noticed, this place has regular-ish posters so you get to the point where you know what somebody's opinion is going to be, even your opinion of others which has grown quite repetitive over time. The alternative is that posting can be at a total minimum where we can all check in each day, see that nothing has happened in Red Sox world, that nothing has been posted by anybody at all because it's already been covered, and then you can be appeased, but given that a lot of posters are regulars around here there is bound to be a repition in opinion, even yours, especially when posters are starving for baseball talk. So whining is okay because it's better than quiet? Have you ever considered less repetition of opinion might open space for more original thoughts & information? I tend to avoid much of the Red Sox "discussion" because it is so repetitive. If one mind has been changed, or even slightly altered, in the incessant battle over FSG spending, I doubt it. Yet, on and on and on, like Spy vs. Spy. So, once per month or two I'll mention I don't share your complaint. JH has hung four banners & I'll wait and root for my Red Sox while he sorts out whatever he needs to sort out. I had Yawkey & Harrington before, I don't need to know who's behind Door #2. The "whining" started when certain posters got indignant about Devers daring to question ownership and that ratcheted things back up again. As far as your other question, yup I've considered that, but no, I dont see where other discussions or "original thought" don't occur because of the heated ownership debate. Not at all, because if that "original thought" sparks conversation, conversation will occur.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 20, 2024 15:33:38 GMT -5
Derek Jeter -- who I disliked as much, or more, than any Yankee ever -- "wanted to win" too. He showed that by fighting through every at bat and humping it out of the box every time he put the ball in play. Don't talk about it. Be about it. Equating a player’s desire to win on an incredibly subjective “hustle” meter seems like you’re just being contrarian. He had a .380 xwOBA last year with 33 homeruns and a career high walk rate. He’s been the orgs most consistent hitter dating back to 2019. Having an issue with his defensive regression is one thing, but sprinting out ground balls? Come on lol The Jeter example was for illustrative purposes only. My effort expectations are not that high. Every lament I have ever directed towards Devers has simply asked that he "hustle" or "run out" (not "sprint," although sprint is certainly reasonable) ground balls. Sometimes he literally takes two or three steps towards first base and calls it quits. Professional sports are an athletic competition. There is no worse offense in a competition than not trying. Not running = not trying. Maybe you enjoyed the NBA All-Star game too?
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 20, 2024 15:39:12 GMT -5
So whining is okay because it's better than quiet? Have you ever considered less repetition of opinion might open space for more original thoughts & information? I tend to avoid much of the Red Sox "discussion" because it is so repetitive. If one mind has been changed, or even slightly altered, in the incessant battle over FSG spending, I doubt it. Yet, on and on and on, like Spy vs. Spy. So, once per month or two I'll mention I don't share your complaint. JH has hung four banners & I'll wait and root for my Red Sox while he sorts out whatever he needs to sort out. I had Yawkey & Harrington before, I don't need to know who's behind Door #2. Do you think Belichick should coach the Pat's indefinitely? After all, nobody's track record will ever match his. If my name was Robert Kraft, Bill would run the football team until he wanted no more. Yup. In Bill I Trust. Btw, I don't play fantasy football because I can not root for anyone but the Patriots. I hope everyone else does poorly, so I can't have a fantasy team with non-Patriot players, so no fantasy football for me. When it seemed Bill was going to the Falcons, I'd decided for the first time ever I'd have a 2nd team. I've a friend who's a Falcon diehard & I was looking forward to it. Alas, Arthur Blank blinked. But when he surfaces, as long as it not AFC East (& then maybe), I'll be rooting for him. Yup.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 20, 2024 15:41:10 GMT -5
Well, sure. A religious quote says, He without sin, cast the first stone. I say, He who's resume is better than John Henry's, have your say. I also think a professional athlete's best focus ought be on their own game, not on who they think their teammates ought to be. It's hard to think about improving your own game with only $330 million. Especially when we all know what's needed - they need to put him in a better position to succeed. They need to make better adjustments to help the players succeed. He doesn't need to run out groundballs or play decent defense or hit better or show any level of commitment to his teammates, he just needs to show up and throw bombs. That's about all $330 million buys you these days. Devers is not wrong about anything he said. Former and current players are ripping this team. Are we going to dunk on Jansen as well? Pedroia? Papelbon? Devers for all his lack of hustle still had a 3.5 WAR last year. The year before he was 4.4 and the year before 3.7. He also won the silver slugger award and was 18th in MVP voting. Maybe he can have Manny-esque moments where he gets lazy and doesn't run out a ground ball or whatever, but he's helping them win more games than losing. This seems like something you could truly rip him for if the team missed the playoffs by a win or two, not 10 games out of WC3.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2024 15:43:07 GMT -5
Ok, I'm asking everyone to not divert this thread. Let's keep it to spring training news please.
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Post by briam on Feb 20, 2024 15:48:19 GMT -5
Equating a player’s desire to win on an incredibly subjective “hustle” meter seems like you’re just being contrarian. He had a .380 xwOBA last year with 33 homeruns and a career high walk rate. He’s been the orgs most consistent hitter dating back to 2019. Having an issue with his defensive regression is one thing, but sprinting out ground balls? Come on lol The Jeter example was for illustrative purposes only. My effort expectations are not that high. Every lament I have ever directed towards Devers has simply asked that he "hustle" or "run out" (not "sprint," although sprint is certainly reasonable) ground balls. Sometimes he literally takes two or three steps towards first base and calls it quits. Professional sports are an athletic competition. There is no worse offense in a competition than not trying. Not running = not trying. Maybe you enjoyed the NBA All-Star game too? I enjoy hitters hitting the ball hard with a good approach. If sprinting out ground balls is your biggest gripe you must’ve hated David Ortiz and Manny. Edit: saw Norm’s post. This is my last bit on this.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Feb 20, 2024 15:52:52 GMT -5
Haven't posted much lately, or even read the goings on much here, after my run in with the leadership of the site and my overall feeling that the Sox, and by extension the conversations on this wonderful site, have become stale.
I didn't by the MLB ticket this year. I made it a point to tell the customer service guy that I was unhappy with the way the ownership group is going about their business. Now, that doesn't really mean anything and the chances it gets back to them is nil, but i was glad to be on the record.
The Sox were tore down after 2019. At the time I made a comment, with extreme prejudice, and was given a whole lot of flak for it. The term was inflammatory for effect, but the meaning was truthful and it has come to fruition. What bothers me, as much as they apparent capitulation by the FO to fielding the most competitive team they can for the fans / product sake, is that there were similar viewpoints expressed with this thought process by members of this site from 2019. An adherence to WAR valuations, adverse risk taking, "winning trades" and the like. Now, though, the time for that has ended for much of that and the FO is underpeforming ? It is mind boggling, to be honest.
I applaud the players for speaking out, just like I applauded them for being unhappy when Bloom would cut a guy with 2 weeks left in the season to give some prospect a look, like that was more important. I feel for Devers, yes, he got paid, but his frustration is understandable, and he may be regretting signing that contract. Forever a Red Sox fan.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 20, 2024 15:54:50 GMT -5
Do you think Belichick should coach the Pat's indefinitely? After all, nobody's track record will ever match his. If my name was Robert Kraft, Bill would run the football team until he wanted no more. Yup. In Bill I Trust. Btw, I don't play fantasy football because I can not root for anyone but the Patriots. I hope everyone else does poorly, so I can't have a fantasy team with non-Patriot players, so no fantasy football for me. When it seemed Bill was going to the Falcons, I'd decided for the first time ever I'd have a 2nd team. I've a friend who's a Falcon diehard & I was looking forward to it. Alas, Arthur Blank blinked. But when he surfaces, as long as it not AFC East (& then maybe), I'll be rooting for him. Yup. So in your world circumstances never change. Got it.
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Post by chaimtime on Feb 20, 2024 16:05:46 GMT -5
I like Devers speaking his mind. I don’t think he said anything over the top, they need to give up fewer runs plain and simple. I hope it lights a fire under the pitchers’ asses and they prove him wrong, which I think they can do.
Hopefully improved defense leads to fewer long innings, leading to fewer blowups. I think better up-the-middle defense, replacing Kluber and Sale’s innings with Giolito’s, and the change from Master of the Mound Visit Dave Bush to Bailey as pitching coach will help improve the pitching quite a bit. I remain unconvinced that Jordan Montgomery has the upside to be worth anywhere close to what the asking price appears to be, so I don’t mind them pursuing this route after missing out on YY.
It is kind of ironic though, since this team isn’t going anywhere if Devers doesn’t have a breakout year. He’s got the tools to be a superstar but he hasn’t quite gotten there yet. This team desperately needs 5-6 WAR players and he’s their best chance at having one of those by far (and that includes everyone on the FA market).
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Feb 20, 2024 16:13:59 GMT -5
I like Devers speaking his mind. I don’t think he said anything over the top, they need to give up fewer runs plain and simple. I hope it lights a fire under the pitchers’ asses and they prove him wrong, which I think they can do. Hopefully improved defense leads to fewer long innings, leading to fewer blowups. I think better up-the-middle defense, replacing Kluber and Sale’s innings with Giolito’s, and the change from Master of the Mound Visit Dave Bush to Bailey as pitching coach will help improve the pitching quite a bit. I remain unconvinced that Jordan Montgomery has the upside to be worth anywhere close to what the asking price appears to be, so I don’t mind them pursuing this route after missing out on YY. It is kind of ironic though, since this team isn’t going anywhere if Devers doesn’t have a breakout year. He’s got the tools to be a superstar but he hasn’t quite gotten there yet. This team desperately needs 5-6 WAR players and he’s their best chance at having one of those by far (and that includes everyone on the FA market). I'm actually super bullish on Casas. 5-6 might be a stretch, but I think he sniffs a 5-6 win pace before slowing down and landing somewhere in the 4 range. Listened to the radio a bit (yes, I know cardinal sin) but they were ripping Trevor Story and his inability to hit a breaking ball over the last 4 years and how he just keeps getting worse at it and even explained that in the high altitudes the ball doesn't spin as much. How much of a concern is this? I know last year was just a mess for Story, but as an example his batting average on breaking stuff was something like 0.071 and he whiffed on 49% of breaking pitches.
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Post by costpet on Feb 20, 2024 16:43:15 GMT -5
This is a Spring Training thread. The games start this weekend. So far, I haven't heard a word about what's going on down there. Nothing? Alrighty then.
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Post by swingingbunt on Feb 20, 2024 16:54:34 GMT -5
Ok, I'm asking everyone to not divert this thread. Let's keep it to spring training news please. Devers is talking about the Sox not signing Free Agents. This talk would be a better place in the Free-Agency thread, but it was closed for some reason.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 20, 2024 17:14:08 GMT -5
The navel gazing about Devers' mindset/intentions/feelings/comportment/attitude... don't do squat for the thread.
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