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Theo Epstein Returns as Part Owner & Advisor
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Post by bettsonmookie on Feb 2, 2024 14:59:57 GMT -5
In an off-season that has been very frustrating from a personnel perspective, the revamping of the FO’s brain power has been quite aggressive.
I am particularly excited to see what Breslow/Bailey and the driveline guys can make of the pitching staff.
Theo’s impact should become more clear in time, but have to think a younger exec like Toboni will be well suited by his presence.
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Post by Guidas on Feb 2, 2024 14:59:57 GMT -5
First good news since this team's playoff run in 2021.
How tangible will the results be? I think minimal. But given the ZiPS projections for the Sox vs. the rest of the AL East/AL and MLB, I need something to cling to.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Feb 2, 2024 15:11:34 GMT -5
Is he even gonna be focused on the baseball side any ways I certainly hope so.
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Post by dirtdog on Feb 2, 2024 15:22:32 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations?
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Post by soxfan50 on Feb 2, 2024 15:32:08 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? His only motivation is that he has always wanted to be part of an MLB ownership group. I'm delighted that his dream has come true, and it's with the Red Sox.
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Post by chaimtime on Feb 2, 2024 15:44:23 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? I don’t know why this sentiment is so widespread. They didn’t just hire him to a sinecure, he’s joined the ownership group. He has presumably paid money for that ownership stake, and if he didn’t, then they must value his potential contributions to the organization extremely highly. This isn’t just window dressing.
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Post by ematz1423 on Feb 2, 2024 15:51:11 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? I don’t know why this sentiment is so widespread. They didn’t just hire him to a sinecure, he’s joined the ownership group. He has presumably paid money for that ownership stake, and if he didn’t, then they must value his potential contributions to the organization extremely highly. This isn’t just window dressing. My assumption would be he paid money but I wonder how this would work with the Red Sox/FSG/MLB? I remember reading that Brady was/is going to buy an ownership stake in the Raiders but the Raiders basically agreed to a below market value deal so the NFL is kind of dragging their feet on it and may end up vetoing it? Feel like it probably gets murky with the FSG as opposed to The Red Sox stuff though.
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Post by Underwater Johnson on Feb 2, 2024 15:53:03 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? I don’t know why this sentiment is so widespread. They didn’t just hire him to a sinecure, he’s joined the ownership group. He has presumably paid money for that ownership stake, and if he didn’t, then they must value his potential contributions to the organization extremely highly. This isn’t just window dressing. Exactly. Sports franchises don’t just give out ownership stakes (unless you’re the politically ambitious son of a president…).
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Post by lancect on Feb 2, 2024 16:11:56 GMT -5
Wasn't Breslow hired because of Theo's recommendation. Overall I am very excited about this, and how it should push ownership to be more aggressive to win again
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Post by dirtywaterinla on Feb 2, 2024 16:26:14 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? Zero way he would have taken the role if that were the case. I personally think the team is downplaying of much of a say he will have in the team in order not to discount Breslow’s role as well as give the impression Henry is still “involved” w/ the day-to-day operations. EDIT: Furthermore, seeing he’s part owner, there’s incredible financial incentive to see that the team has success.
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Post by congusgambler33 on Feb 2, 2024 16:28:55 GMT -5
Theo is a winner. You don't think that he would see the Red sox and not see an improvement needs to be accomplished? I am sure he will be around enough to be involved in player decisions with Breslow. I think it is a precursor (as some have suggested) to take over the FSG when Henry and Company decide to call it quits.
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Post by scottysmalls on Feb 2, 2024 16:40:09 GMT -5
My theory: Theo is, in his head, more interested in getting involved in all the other sports. It’s a really cool portfolio and an exciting opportunity to work on a bunch of interesting things. That said, he’s not gonna be able to help himself but care and work on the Red Sox too. He’s competitive, has financial incentive, and loves baseball.
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Post by pasadenasox on Feb 2, 2024 16:41:19 GMT -5
I wonder if this develops into the type of setup for FSG with the Red Sox like they have at Liverpool FC with Mike Gordon, where Theo becomes Sam Kennedy's boss.
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Post by benogliviesbrother on Feb 2, 2024 16:47:44 GMT -5
I have zero relevant information so I have no theories.
But I am happy to have Theo back & feel having a smart accomplished person so close to the head of the decision-making apparatus can not bode ill.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 2, 2024 16:54:05 GMT -5
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Post by bishop on Feb 2, 2024 17:02:26 GMT -5
I am a Theo fan of course. However I cant help but wonder if he was hired mainly to be a buffer between the fans and ownership. In other words,look like they are trying to improve without really spending any money. As for Theo, now that he is part owner, what are his real motivations? I do assume Theo will be in wider roles not Sox focused but if all he will be is the new Larry Lucchino this would still be a home run hire. John Henry, Tom Werner, even Sam Kennedy are toxic on the mic and I don't need Breslow worrying about the PR of moves instead of what's best. If he's the liaison between Breslow and the purse strings even better, ownership will always have a sign off on 8 let alone 9 figure deals, I think he trusts Breslow, and I trust his judgment when it comes to baseball moves more than Henry's. Re: his motivation that has always been a little opaque, but if the implication is he'll try to restrict payroll or focus on profit I very much doubt that. He is an extremely minor owner in a portfolio the Red Sox are a minority part these days, he has always been extremely ambitious, and if I'm saying dumb things like "his brand" his brand is success not squeezing dollars and maximizing short term profit.
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Post by bishop on Feb 2, 2024 17:15:18 GMT -5
Case in point... I don't know enough about the internal dynamics or Sam to know why he would say this, but it's just dumb with how riled up a large portion of the fan base is and the current state of the team. (And he should know that as a Brookline kid.) Even if it's just corporate speak intended for that audience it could be used against the Sox until they start winning just like Full Throttle has been.
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Post by kwodes on Feb 2, 2024 17:15:50 GMT -5
This offseason has been atrocious in terms of the roster and player acquisition, BUT I think the hirings and personnel acquisitions in the baseball ops department and organizational infrastructure have been amazing. Let's just hope it translates to a great player development system moving forward.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 2, 2024 17:20:39 GMT -5
1) I've always thought Theo was being groomed to succeed Manfred. This is a logical step in that path of that's not imminent. Only so much to do at MLB HQ.
2) He's apparently available as a "sounding board and executive coach." per a quote attributed to Sportico.
3) I don't think his primary responsibility will be baseball. He's talked previously about ownership being a logical next step for him (I wonder if this was on the table when he said it as an evergreen offer from JWH...). He's always had off-field interests (Hot Stove Cool Music, etc.) I'm sure expanding his horizons is part of the appeal.
4) I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like of people who want Sam Kennedy fired and those who understand his job responsibilities.
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Post by bishop on Feb 2, 2024 17:36:38 GMT -5
4) I wonder what the Venn diagram looks like of people who want Sam Kennedy fired and those who understand his job responsibilities. As a poster who mentioned Sam Kennedy just above yours I'll bite... I do not know his responsibilities and I've never advocated for him being fired because I don't know what those are or if he's being hung out to dry and carry water for unpopular decisions made above him. I'm sure you know more than me, would love to hear more context if you have and can share any.
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Post by grandsalami on Feb 2, 2024 22:40:31 GMT -5
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Post by briam on Feb 2, 2024 22:43:56 GMT -5
Nice to see this finally being reported.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 2, 2024 22:56:56 GMT -5
Nice to see this finally being reported. I know. It's so surprising. Ownership had done such a great job of hiding the reality that they were preoccupied with things non-Red Sox and that the Sox were no longer the crown jewel that John Henry had so highly regarded And yes I'm being 100% sarcastic. Well I'll give John Henry this. He has hired Theo twice. Best move he ever made. Kind of like how Dan Duquette traded for Pedro Martinez twice. Signature moves for both guys.
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Post by greenmonster on Feb 3, 2024 8:22:49 GMT -5
Wait..so ownership was preoccupied and not just focused on projected WAR for the 2026 core?
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 3, 2024 9:35:28 GMT -5
Wait..so ownership was preoccupied and not just focused on projected WAR for the 2026 core? I look at it this way. This is the best ownership group the Sox ever had. Period. You look back and before Tom Yawkey there wasnt a lot of continuity. They won titles but ownership changed often in those early days. They won twice under Joe Lannin but he wound up selling to Harry Frazee, who did everything he could to make sure the Sox had the best team they could have in 1918. The Sox won the Series and eventually he got tired of Babe Ruth's demands for money, sold him, had originally intended to replace him with quality players, but had become enemies with AL President Ban Johnson by then as he was considered an outsider and was on his own island with Johnson's other enemies, the Yankees, who had cash, were rising, and wanted to win, and a ruined White Sox team. Frazee got frustrated, and gave up, as the Sox at that point, were hardly his passion, given that the theater was his first love and he wrecked the club and gave the Yankees the beginning of their dynasty. I would say by early 1919 Frazee was well regarded in Boston. Within a few years he was a pariah. He sold the club finally to Bob Quinn who had a backer with money, but that backer died and Quinn was left with a decimated team and no money and no hope. Eventually Tom Yawkey buys the team and pours a ton of money into it getting guys like Foxx, Grove, and Ferrell, but over time he starts to lose interest and sinks deeper into an alcoholic fog by time the 50s roll around. No wonder the requirement to be his GM was to be his drinking buddy. Too bad racial tolerance wasn't a requirement. By the 60s Yawkey has been sick and has started to dry out. He has long neglected the club and eventually left it to the one competent man he had left to run it, Dick O'Connell, which had been a departure from his drinking buddies. The Sox are a mess. Yawkey is finally sober and his main desire is to get a new ballpark or move the team, perhaps to Milwaukee to replace the Braves who had just relocated to Atlanta. Then thanks to the competence of O'Connell, farm director Neil Mahoney, and Dick Williams, the miracle of 1967 happens and suddenly the long lost passion Yawkey had for the Sox has revived, which rankled Dick Williams who saw Yawkey as a Johnny come lately. And that friction eventually led to his firing. Yawkey spends the last years of his life passionate about the Sox, but a simmering ownership power play eventually erupts 7 years after his death on Tony C night, a tribute to Conigliaro who had suffered a stroke and was in a coma. The classless LeRoux vs Sullivan and Mrs. Yawkey fight breaks out, Yawkey eventually wins but realizes Sullivan's shortcomings and replaces him in her circle of trust with a reluctant John Harrington who upon her death baby sits the Sox for a decade leaving them in limbo until he finds a real owner. Enter Henry and Werner who do everything to win over a skeptical fanbase who preferred local owners because they want somebody who loves the Sox as much as they do and doesnt just see them as a business. Henry intends to hire Billy Beane and modernize the Sox on hopes of winning and is fortunate when Beane accepts and then changes his mind and Theo Epstein is waiting in the wings and just like that, competent ownership, a competent young man making the moves, money being poured into the team and the Sox are finally a winner. Drama ensues as Theo sees things in the levels above him that rankle him. He leaves but is persuaded to come back, they win again but eventually Theo sees more that he doesnt like, and he's bound for Chicago. But Henry is still invested in his team and they win a surprise championship, rebuild with a new core, pour more money into the team and the greatest Sox team of all time wins the series with ease. Then Henry sees an expensive Sox team that plays hung over in 2019 and notices Tampa for a fraction of the cost has become better so he hires Bloom to run things, trading Mookie a priority. Somewhere along the way Henry becomes more preoccupied with his growing empire and the Sox are just another entity to him and acquisitions become more of a focal point to him. The Sox slide into mediocrity with the exception of one fun surprise season, money stops being poured into the team, there's a malaise around the team and fan base and even some wishes he'd sell if he's lost interest. My long history lesson shows that the Sox have had owners who are engaged with the Sox, but can lose interest the way a cat can when they have a new toy and get tired of it and eventually neglect it. I hear the, "they won four titles" argument as evidence that you're foolish if you want them to sell. I don't know about that. Imagine being an Oakland A's fan in 1978. The A's are in a downward spiral because Charlie Finley doesn't want to invest in his team and doesn't like how there is a market and that it's crazy in his view. Yeah, but the A's won 3 straight championships from 72 - 74, his backers would say. As an A's fan in 1978 would you want him to sell? I would. Past glory isn't always an indicator of an ownership's current level of commitment to the team. As history shows, ownership can be mercurial. I had started to lean in the perhaps they should sell category, although I wasn't firmly planted into that view as of yet. The hiring of Theo gives me hope that even if Henry really isn't in to the Sox as he was once at least he has somebody very competent keeping an eye on them which is the next best thing so that assuages a lot of my concerns for the time being. That's how important I think this hire is.
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