John Henry/Sox ownership/direction

It's entirely possible that John Henry was the best owner in Red Sox history and one of the best in the history of the game and simultaneously not be a good owner decades later.


Bloom was brought in to fix the farm and try to compete on a limited budget. What did Breslow do this off-season that was any different than Bloom? Even Bloom's big signing for Story was a way to trim salary.

The farm is good, not great. I could be under-selling it, but either way it depends on the development of Teel, Mayer, and Anthony. Yorke is starting to look like a failed prospect. Bello is still developing and hopefully he can settle in as a 2. Casas is very promising. They got incredibly lucky with Houck and Crawford. Rafaela to me looks like a really good defensive utility guy.

On one hand they've had a lot of these young kids for awhile and some of them are entering their prime years already like Duran, Devers and Houck. On the other hand it does take discipline to not move on from guys in a win-now window. With core guys being 27 they need to invest now. I think they could have invested more to compliment guys or just blow it up for a year instead of middling every year since 2019.

The Red Sox are now 2 years in a row below the luxury tax with the 3rd highest revenue and 40 million coming off the books. Do you feel they will sign, not be interested in, but sign Soto or Burnes?

Devers is really, really, really good with the bat, but every year he's inching closer and closer to that DH role.


Long way of saying Henry was the best ever for them. I just don't think it's true any more. People and interests change over time.

Can't argue with the first point and agree with your 3rd, but will Henry/FSG spend to the levels they used to again and was that really why Bloom was fired? Henry's an aloof billionaire, there are worse things in an owner, (and I do think he'll spend if he's still alive post 2030 when we hopefully have elite guys nearing the end of their arb years,) but there's been a fickleness from the ownership side through Cherington, Hazen, Dombrowski, Bloom despite 2 titles in that span.

Saying things like this is asinine "(Werner's comments) overshadowed every other word, paragraph and interview of the winter because it reaches so deeply into the false belief that many fans and media have that you should mortgage the future each year for the present," he said. "You have to base acquisitions and dispositions on the future, not the past. That is unpopular generally." - yes you undoubtedly have a small (but vocal) segment of the fanbase who thinks we should be able to compete every year, but signing big name players is about acquiring them for the near term future and your chairman fed that part of the base red meat, why blame them for thinking you'd make big signings? How hard is it to admit you wanted to sign someone but the market was higher than you anticipated or thought made sense and they were more interested in making a superteam?

I'm with incandenza etc that I really like where we are positioned, my biggest fear is ownership/management getting reactionary and pushing in too early, but it's worth noting attendance is at it's lowest levels since 1999. Fans are voting with their wallets, I don't think he really understands the why, but it's clear to me he's noticed.

I'm mixed on Bloom. The Mookie trade was awful, but the throw-in piece Wong has salvaged it somewhat.

The Story signing was awful, but The injuries weren't completely predictable. I believe there was a shoulder concern coming in. I think his road splits were a concern, but less sure of that.

Everyone seems to really like Wilyer Abreu.

Roman Anthony I think was a Bloom pick
Marcelo Mayer as well.

Pivetta was an excellent trade. He absolutely bungle the last deadline, but I said at the time I thought that was an indicator he was getting fired. The year before he made some nice trades at the deadline, but should have gotten under the luxury.

He wasn't as good as hoped when dealing within the margins, but he accomplished his primary objective, I think, despite being told to compete while rebuilding, but don't spend.

I don't think Breslow has really deviated much from Bloom, yet. I do like Breslow.

As someone who doesn't follow the game as much as I once did, I'm speaking from a place of visceral reaction to what Henry had to say. What I am about to write is not a point to defend, but rather meant as an illustration of how many casual fans react.

On first reading, I felt slighted. On first reading, it felt as if Henry declared that his commitment to going all out is conditional on an evaluation of likelihood of success. Any team expects - or hopes - fans are invested in the team every single year. And here it seemed as if the return on our emotional (and monetary) investment was conditional.

That was the visceral reaction. Good lord, I'm just about 70. I've spent a lot of life doing research, analysis, and investigatory work. And here I am...

That's why I lurk on sites like this one. Why I rarely contribute. I learn and gain perspective that helps keep the visceral from putting me at a team rally during the winter, booing.

Stepping away from the visceral, what he said makes sense. None of us wants to see the team blindly spend on free agents that do not advance the quality of the team but at best keep it wallowing in mediocrity. The one thing I will cling to - and I have no idea how the Sox compare to their competitors - is for a consistent heavy investment in scouting and analytics. For relatively cheap dollars (as compared to the cost of free agent talent at the big league level) the team can help set a good base for consistent competitive operation.

To sum, I'm trashing my visceral response. I suspect though that too many out here had the same initial reaction.

And largely without Casas, who is probably going to be an elite offensive talent year in and out

Hey, I know this a prospect board, but does anyone else want to discuss the Mookie Betts trade?

Uh huh. Yet here you are, first one up, starting a new thread on the Red Sox. That's "investment," with a capital "I" in my book. 

I've had the Yawkey & Harrington stewardships -- I don't mind JH so much. Four to One banners on the Yankees since he took over too. My Yankee friends are envious too while trying to convince themselves THIS is their year. Maybe? We'll see.

But I wouldn't be shocked to see the Sox hang another first. Wouldn't that be a hoot! Wonder how the JH haters will treat it? Doubt they'll enjoy it. Too busy not paying attention, no doubt. Or finding ways to call it lucky or some such. 

Whatever. There's a game this afternoon and I'll be invested in it. 

30 teams...1 champion. I don't think he put any more thought into than that.

He apparently doesn't realize we are entitled to more.

Well put. He seems to think that Red Sox Nation is composed of the lowest common denominator of fans.

Most fans are reasonable in that they dont expect the Sox to win the Series each year, but they expect the Sox to be in the post season with a legit chance at winning the Series definitely more than half the time given that the threshold for making the postseason has been watered down enough that 40% of the league makes it.

Most Red Sox fans can do without a Jeff Bagwell for Larry Andersen type of trade and want to see the Sox build with a young core, but we remember that Pedroia, Lester, Papelbon, Ellsbury, and Buchholz were integrated into a veteran core featuring some stars where they could develop without the pressure of turning around the franchise.

The Red Sox generate a lot of revenue and have a huge franchise price tag should they be sold so yes they should always be in the mix for top notch free agent talent. I'm not overly concerned for John Henry's profit margin.

I didnt care for his characterization of the Sox as an "asset". It makes them sound like a balance sheet item, which is not how most fans, particularly devoted fans like myself see them. The Red Sox are part of your family, an institution that means something that you love. Instead of saying something like, "I wont sell the Red Sox because I love them too much to do it or it's a big part of me", that would have resonated with me, but instead to him, they're just a piece of their growing conglomerate, no more special than Liverpool Soccer or Penguins hockey, or Roush racing or whatever PGA or Lebron related ventures they have going on. Didnt used to be like that. Henry regarded the Sox as the crown jewel, a sacred stewardship, and it showed with the support he gave that team.

That's clearly not how he sees them anymore. He doesnt even show up for them anymore instead sending his wife in for appearances or having his mouthpiece Sam Kwnnedy speak for him.

It's very off putting to me.

I'm very capable of holding these two different thoughts in my head at the same time about John Henry which are 1) his ownership group that he headed will go down as the greatest in Red Sox history when all is said and done and 2) for the past 5 years he has been an absentee owner who has been neglectful of the Sox because he has bigger fish to fry and its obvious the Sox are no longer a passion of his and as he has reduced spending and the Sox have been mired in mediocrity where they have missed the playoffs four years out of 5 and are primed to miss again this year and unless something changes will probably miss the next year or two until the promising kids in the system are ready to hit their stride in the majors as that can take time.

And this extended malaise has been noticed by fans as the ballpark in which games were always sold out, now has plenty of tickets available for meaningless August and September games. NESN's ratings are down and the local media barely pays attention to them anymore.

For me personally I will always love my Sox no matter what, but I dont find the Sox to be riveting must watch TV and the highs and lows I'd get from wins or losses have waned as I dont get excited by the wins and the losses dont really bother me because they're not going anywhere anyways which is what really bothers me as I wonder how many more years of irrelevance and apathy there will be until they have a team I can get passionate about and are deserving of my time from the start to the finish of a game.