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Who will get bumped when some healthy players return?
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 20, 2024 10:40:21 GMT -5
Doubt it. They'd need to send someone down to do it then, presumably, send down Winckowski and recall Campbell. Agreed, IMO, Winckowski gets a couple more starts in Worcester then becomes the Fifth starter in the rotation when it is needed for regular turns. I think with the bullpen day being Sunday my idea no longer works. Winckowski would only have three days off in between starts and I doubt they're interested in doing that.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Jun 23, 2024 21:30:13 GMT -5
Team getting healthier - Abreu up sent Dalbec down. Dom seems to have bought himself time. Weirdly, it seems Masa is a dead spot in the line up (when he plays). Hoping we get Casas back soon.
Pitching - Mata has had a few decent rehab appearances - worth trying him instead of Keller? Criswell, Winck and Campbell all ready and waiting at Woo.
Any news on Grissom?
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gerry
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Post by gerry on Jun 24, 2024 2:22:48 GMT -5
As you say, several days of reckoning are approaching.
This is a perfect thread for the next month or so.
After months of seemingly countless injuries hurting play, only a few remain on the IL who may be back in 2024 (like Casas, Grissom, Hendricks, Mata) and are getting close to doing so. I can think of several spots for them.
Recent IL returnees helped to finally/actually get INTO the wild card competition. Ironic that around the deadline the Sox could improve as much from these returnees as any trade. Yet the rosters will also have to accommodate any trades, which makes this thread even more significant.
And guys like Criswell, Fitts, Winck will also be in the picture. This team just keeps getting better.
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Post by rkarp on Jun 24, 2024 7:48:36 GMT -5
I think Grissom needs an extended stay in AAA once he is healthy. perhaps 30 days. as long as Hamilton and Romy are playing well enough, Grissom has not earned the right to bump either. Yorke also has earned a look.
I have to think Hendricks is late August ready?
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 8:13:59 GMT -5
I think Grissom needs an extended stay in AAA once he is healthy. perhaps 30 days.as long as Hamilton and Romy are playing well enough, Grissom has not earned the right to bump either. Yorke also has earned a look. I have to think Hendricks is late August ready? A quick Google search doesn't bring up any recent updates in regards to Grissom. Let him stay on the IL until that hammy is back to 100 percent and then some, then let him rehab for the full 20 days. In a best case scenario they could make it through this full season without using one of Grissom's options. I believe he currently has two left, if they end using one this year then he's down to just one which probably not a huge deal at all but still would be nice if they can preserve that option.
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Post by thelpc on Jun 24, 2024 8:24:47 GMT -5
So I know the conventional wisdom would certainly be to DFA Dom Smith once Casas is healthy, but I can’t help but wonder if they’d hang onto him for the depth. I know they’re both LH first basemen, and that definitely makes Smith redundant, but let’s say Casas gets hurt again, would anyone here really be comfortable rolling with Mr. Dalbec for the rest of the season? Because I’ve seen just about enough of Big League Bob at this point. Don’t think Smith sticks around but the depth chart could get ugly if Casas doesn’t stay healthy
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 24, 2024 9:03:51 GMT -5
PSA that it's Hendriks with no "C".
On the Casas countermove, I'm really beginning to wonder if that's when they do something with Yoshida. They are so clearly committed to not playing him in the field that his roster spot feels wasted unless he's the every day DH, and he's not being used that way. With full health, it does seem clear that it's Smith or Yoshida that goes when Casas is healthy. (Worth noting the 40-man being at 39 means no DFA necessary, necessarily.)
As far as Hendriks, let's get there first before we start worrying about countermoves.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 9:07:09 GMT -5
It's a weird spot with Grissom right now, they don't need to do anything because he's young and has options but they've got a lot of middle infield options. As things stand you have to imagine he's behind Story and Hamilton for a starting spot next year and maybe about even pace with Valdez. Mayer, Yorke, Meidroth all going to be ready soon. Grissom currently has basically zero defensive versatility so he's a tougher fit as a bench piece than Gonzalez or even Hamilton.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 9:10:07 GMT -5
PSA that it's Hendriks with no "C". On the Casas countermove, I'm really beginning to wonder if that's when they do something with Yoshida. They are so clearly committed to not playing him in the field that his roster spot feels wasted unless he's the every day DH, and he's not being used that way. With full health, it does seem clear that it's Smith or Yoshida that goes when Casas is healthy. (Worth noting the 40-man being at 39 means no DFA necessary, necessarily.) As far as Hendriks, let's get there first before we start worrying about countermoves. I get the conversations about moving on from Yoshida but boy would I be upset if they dump him to keep Dom Smith on the team. I think it's also worth considering that Yoshida was off for like 6 weeks, had barely any rehab, and has played in 9 games since. A slow start rebounding from that time off isn't shocking.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 9:17:23 GMT -5
PSA that it's Hendriks with no "C". On the Casas countermove, I'm really beginning to wonder if that's when they do something with Yoshida. They are so clearly committed to not playing him in the field that his roster spot feels wasted unless he's the every day DH, and he's not being used that way. With full health, it does seem clear that it's Smith or Yoshida that goes when Casas is healthy. (Worth noting the 40-man being at 39 means no DFA necessary, necessarily.) As far as Hendriks, let's get there first before we start worrying about countermoves. I get the conversations about moving on from Yoshida but boy would I be upset if they dump him to keep Dom Smith on the team.I think it's also worth considering that Yoshida was off for like 6 weeks, had barely any rehab, and has played in 9 games since. A slow start rebounding from that time off isn't shocking. I'm with you but at the same point if Casas goes down again and they get rid of Smith then they're going to be scrambling real bad to fill 1st base. It also feels like one way or another Yoshida won't be on the roster next year, hopefully he can start to hit and re-gain some sort of value to which they won't have to outright release him and eat the full contract.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jun 24, 2024 9:27:30 GMT -5
PSA that it's Hendriks with no "C". On the Casas countermove, I'm really beginning to wonder if that's when they do something with Yoshida. They are so clearly committed to not playing him in the field that his roster spot feels wasted unless he's the every day DH, and he's not being used that way. With full health, it does seem clear that it's Smith or Yoshida that goes when Casas is healthy. (Worth noting the 40-man being at 39 means no DFA necessary, necessarily.) As far as Hendriks, let's get there first before we start worrying about countermoves. I get the conversations about moving on from Yoshida but boy would I be upset if they dump him to keep Dom Smith on the team. I think it's also worth considering that Yoshida was off for like 6 weeks, had barely any rehab, and has played in 9 games since. A slow start rebounding from that time off isn't shocking. It's not about the slow start for me. It's that even before the injury, his role had shrunk to that of a part-time, DH-only guy. That's got to be a heck of a hitter to use a roster spot on that. If they commit to playing him every day then it might be different but that's not been their inclination. Although, that said, I just looked and he's playing more since being activated than I realized (9 starts, 3 sits), so I'll mostly retract the point.
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Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2024 9:45:08 GMT -5
I get the conversations about moving on from Yoshida but boy would I be upset if they dump him to keep Dom Smith on the team. I think it's also worth considering that Yoshida was off for like 6 weeks, had barely any rehab, and has played in 9 games since. A slow start rebounding from that time off isn't shocking. It's not about the slow start for me. It's that even before the injury, his role had shrunk to that of a part-time, DH-only guy. That's got to be a heck of a hitter to use a roster spot on that. If they commit to playing him every day then it might be different but that's not been their inclination. Although, that said, I just looked and he's playing more since being activated than I realized (9 starts, 3 sits), so I'll mostly retract the point. Didn't we decide that this was just because the team was lying about his being hurt before they put him on the IL? He played in each of the team's first 18 games (though a couple times as a pinch hitter). Then he played in 6 of the next 11 despite being on a hot streak with Cora occasionally lying angrily about him. Then he hit the IL.
Keeping Dom Smith on the roster after Casas comes back would be really bizarre.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 24, 2024 10:12:40 GMT -5
It's not about the slow start for me. It's that even before the injury, his role had shrunk to that of a part-time, DH-only guy. That's got to be a heck of a hitter to use a roster spot on that. If they commit to playing him every day then it might be different but that's not been their inclination. Although, that said, I just looked and he's playing more since being activated than I realized (9 starts, 3 sits), so I'll mostly retract the point. Didn't we decide that this was just because the team was lying about his being hurt before they put him on the IL? He played in each of the team's first 18 games (though a couple times as a pinch hitter). Then he played in 6 of the next 11 despite being on a hot streak with Cora occasionally lying angrily about him. Then he hit the IL.
Keeping Dom Smith on the roster after Casas comes back would be really bizarre.
Yeah Yoshida’s thumb injury we’ve later found out to have begun in mid-April, which is when he started to be inexplicably benched. (“Why is Tyler Heinemen DH’ing?”). Since Masa’s return though, Refsnyder is raking, Valdez has been great since his AAA call-up, and you’re routinely having days where you’d rather have “X” in the lineup than Yoshida. I don’t know that there’s an urgent imperative to move on just yet because as you note Smith for Casas (if Casas ever gets healthy…) is an easy swap. But it might get uncomfortable soon if it’s not already. Per Brian Barrett: “Against righties Refsnyder 94 plate appearances .313/.376/.470/.846 Yoshida 97 plate appearances .264/.340/.345/.685“
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Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2024 10:59:57 GMT -5
Yeah actually, Yoshida really doesn't add anything against lefties now that both Refsnyder and O'Neill are healthy. I'm not buying Refsnyer against righties though; he's cooled off a lot against them recently and he has a career-long track record of relative futility against them.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 24, 2024 11:19:44 GMT -5
Keeping Dom Smith on the roster after Casas comes back would be really bizarre.
It's a weird spot for sure. Can Yoshida be optioned*? If they had to choose today, I can't imagine choosing Yoshida over Dom Smith, maybe just cause of the heater the latter is on. But also Smith has some track record of hitting in the bigs, and also plays a defensive position at replacement level where they have few other options behind Casas. It becomes a little harder if you have to DFA Yoshida, and potentially lose control. But even then, you're saving like 9 million on this years lux tax, and then 18 a year going forward. If he clears waivers though you can always bring him back up (assuming he rides out the string in AAA). In that scenario, you have to pay the 18mil per but potentially save on lux taxes and other penalties.
*I couldn't find anything on Cot's or SP's payroll or 40-man pages, but might have missed it.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 24, 2024 11:39:31 GMT -5
Keeping Dom Smith on the roster after Casas comes back would be really bizarre.
It's a weird spot for sure. Can Yoshida be optioned*? If they had to choose today, I can't imagine choosing Yoshida over Dom Smith, maybe just cause of the heater the latter is on. But also Smith has some track record of hitting in the bigs, and also plays a defensive position at replacement level where they have few other options behind Casas. It becomes a little harder if you have to DFA Yoshida, and potentially lose control. But even then, you're saving like 9 million on this years lux tax, and then 18 a year going forward. If he clears waivers though you can always bring him back up (assuming he rides out the string in AAA). In that scenario, you have to pay the 18mil per but potentially save on lux taxes and other penalties.
*I couldn't find anything on Cot's or SP's payroll or 40-man pages, but might have missed it.
Outright him, correct? That’s what I recall happening with Castillo but I don’t know what’s allowed in Yoshida’s case. Our hypothetical “optimized” healthy position group is something like this (you can quibble about positions/order) Duran CF Devers 3B O’Neill LF Casas 1B (INJURED) Wong C Abreu RF Yoshida* DH Hamilton 2B Rafaela SS Reese Valdez (Dom Smith if Casas stays injured/they decide they want to keep him) Romy Rob Is there anyone else internally who would likely push any of these guys out in the immediate future? (I’m writing off Grissom for the moment until we hear anything all positive about his health.) Like I think you could roll with this but we have another month for guys to get hurt or to fall off ahead of the trade deadline.
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 11:48:16 GMT -5
It's a weird spot for sure. Can Yoshida be optioned*? If they had to choose today, I can't imagine choosing Yoshida over Dom Smith, maybe just cause of the heater the latter is on. But also Smith has some track record of hitting in the bigs, and also plays a defensive position at replacement level where they have few other options behind Casas. It becomes a little harder if you have to DFA Yoshida, and potentially lose control. But even then, you're saving like 9 million on this years lux tax, and then 18 a year going forward. If he clears waivers though you can always bring him back up (assuming he rides out the string in AAA). In that scenario, you have to pay the 18mil per but potentially save on lux taxes and other penalties.
*I couldn't find anything on Cot's or SP's payroll or 40-man pages, but might have missed it.
Outright him, correct? That’s what I recall happening with Castillo but I don’t know what’s allowed in Yoshida’s case. Our hypothetical “optimized” healthy position group is something like this (you can quibble about positions/order) Duran CF Devers 3B O’Neill LF Casas 1B (INJURED) Wong C Abreu RF Yoshida* DH Hamilton 2B Rafaela SS Reese Valdez (Dom Smith if Casas stays injured/they decide they want to keep him) Romy Rob Is there anyone else internally who would likely push any of these guys out in the immediate future? (I’m writing off Grissom for the moment until we hear anything all positive about his health.) Like I think you could roll with this but we have another month for guys to get hurt or to fall off ahead of the trade deadline. I shall quibble, I'd put Duran in LF Rafaela in CF and O'Neill DH/rotating between COF spots. Which would put Hamilton at SS and probably Valdez at 2nd. Obviously plenty of room for rotating guys around for days off and the such but just my .02 cents on the matter. I don't really like Rafaela getting a lot of PT at SS, he's far better in CF than he is at SS.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 11:50:42 GMT -5
It's a weird spot for sure. Can Yoshida be optioned*? If they had to choose today, I can't imagine choosing Yoshida over Dom Smith, maybe just cause of the heater the latter is on. But also Smith has some track record of hitting in the bigs, and also plays a defensive position at replacement level where they have few other options behind Casas. It becomes a little harder if you have to DFA Yoshida, and potentially lose control. But even then, you're saving like 9 million on this years lux tax, and then 18 a year going forward. If he clears waivers though you can always bring him back up (assuming he rides out the string in AAA). In that scenario, you have to pay the 18mil per but potentially save on lux taxes and other penalties.
*I couldn't find anything on Cot's or SP's payroll or 40-man pages, but might have missed it.
Outright him, correct? That’s what I recall happening with Castillo but I don’t know what’s allowed in Yoshida’s case. Our hypothetical “optimized” healthy position group is something like this (you can quibble about positions/order) Duran CF Devers 3B O’Neill LF Casas 1B (INJURED) Wong C Abreu RF Yoshida* DH Hamilton 2B Rafaela SS Reese Valdez (Dom Smith if Casas stays injured/they decide they want to keep him) Romy Rob Is there anyone else internally who would likely push any of these guys out in the immediate future? (I’m writing off Grissom for the moment until we hear anything all positive about his health.) Like I think you could roll with this but we have another month for guys to get hurt or to fall off ahead of the trade deadline. I think that's probably the right list of players, but I think I'd rather keep Rafaela in centerfield more often. Some mix of platooning at OF/DH with Abreu/O'Neill/Refsnyder/Rafaela/Yoshida. Romy platoons with Hamilton & Valdez. Play Rafaela at short occasionally but I think at this point I prefer both Gonzalez and Hamilton defensively there, and the outfield is better with Rafaela in it. add: ematz beat me to it
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Post by notstarboard on Jun 24, 2024 11:53:18 GMT -5
Keeping Dom Smith on the roster after Casas comes back would be really bizarre.
It's a weird spot for sure. Can Yoshida be optioned*? If they had to choose today, I can't imagine choosing Yoshida over Dom Smith, maybe just cause of the heater the latter is on. But also Smith has some track record of hitting in the bigs, and also plays a defensive position at replacement level where they have few other options behind Casas. It becomes a little harder if you have to DFA Yoshida, and potentially lose control. But even then, you're saving like 9 million on this years lux tax, and then 18 a year going forward. If he clears waivers though you can always bring him back up (assuming he rides out the string in AAA). In that scenario, you have to pay the 18mil per but potentially save on lux taxes and other penalties.
*I couldn't find anything on Cot's or SP's payroll or 40-man pages, but might have missed it.
Smith has been pretty bad tbh. He's played a below average 1B and has a below average bat, both this year (90 wRC+, -1 OAA) and for his career (96 wRC+, -10 OAA, although he had a solid defensive season last year). -0.3 fWAR in 148 PA. His career track record and the fact that Tampa didn't even want to use a 40-man spot on him like 8 weeks ago, and the fact that he's 29 and without options, means he's an easy drop. Even terrible players will run into a .286/.400/.476 stretch for a couple weeks while platooning against their better side.
Romy can play 1B, and in theory Rob can play 1B too, but Cora hasn't given him the chance. Both of them are more versatile defensively and have been as good (Romy) or better (Rob) with the bat. The Sox would have to give up very little to pick up a Smith-caliber replacement even if Casas were to go down again. Hell, give Kavadas a shot in a platoon role. Yes his K rate is dismal, but Smith's roster spot is more valuable than the hypothetical downgrade from a guy on a -1.2 fWAR/600 pace to Kavadas if Casas gets injured.
As far as I can tell, Yoshida has been hurt for a lot of the season, and is just coming off an injury now. And I don't think you save a dime on the luxury tax by dumping him unless he gets claimed, or you work out a trade where another team takes on some of the cash. If he gets released and signed for the league minimum the Sox would continue to pay him 18 a year.
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Post by wanderingdude on Jun 24, 2024 12:35:03 GMT -5
Baseball Savant is obviously not the end all be all, but it is eery how similar Yoshida’s and Brock Holt’s look. Yoshida last year was almost identical to 2018 Holt and Yoshida’s this year is slightly better than 2021 Holt (minus base running and fielding, which… yikes). Yoshida has shown more potential in short bursts but it looks more and more like just a hot streak than who he is. It’s not ideal moving him, particularly with the money and the damage to the Red Sox reputation in the Japanese market, but if they can cut bait without taking a ton of money back they should do it this deadline. It not only lets them balance the lineup a little better (acquire a righty DH at the deadline as well?) but also solves a long term issue. I hope he proves me wrong but i’m pretty out on him.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 24, 2024 15:31:14 GMT -5
Yoshida is not going to be released. He has options ... Last resort.
It'd be a good thing is Smith develops trade value.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 24, 2024 17:29:43 GMT -5
Cam Booser was demoted to make room for Isaiah Campbell.
Keller goes down for Winckowski.
Kind of tough for two guys in Criswell and Booser who spent a lot of time in the minors get sent back after pitching so well in the majors.
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 17:34:58 GMT -5
Yoshida is not going to be released. He has options ... Last resort. It'd be a good thing is Smith develops trade value. I'm pretty sure with Japanese FAs there is usually an agreement not to option them.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jun 24, 2024 22:21:30 GMT -5
Yoshida has to get a little hot now. So we can move him. The way this team is built to me he sticks out in a bad way.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 25, 2024 15:56:50 GMT -5
Liam Hendriks throws his first bullpen session next week. BABY KANGAROOS FOR EVERYONE!
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