SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
|
Keystone
Jun 22, 2024 22:05:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by blizzards39 on Jun 22, 2024 22:05:43 GMT -5
With so many options and no clear cut favorite, what does the future hold at 2B for the parent club?? Most likely story and or Mayer hold down SS, but it is possible they are also the starters up the middle. CR probably stays in CF, but they are scenarios with Raffaella also in the 2B mix.
So you theoretically have mayer Story Rafaella Valdez grossom Hamilton Yorke Campbell Medroith ( unlikely) Lugo ( unlikely) Romy ( unlikely) Cespedes/ paulino/ zantello ( to far away to tell)
Does anybody have enough knowledge on he group to rank them. Specifically defencivly.
|
|
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 22, 2024 22:49:35 GMT -5
I think it's eventually its Grissom and Mayer.
Grissom hasn't been right most of the year but his minor league track record of hitting is still strong and the guy is still quite young.
While I can understand those who dont want to count on him I think it woykd be a mistake to give up on him.
I think next year may start with Hamilton and Story up the middle but I think it will wind up with Grissom and Mayer.
I'm guessing Story's growing injury history will plague him at some point next year, too, Hamilton will hit more like a useful utility man next year while Yorke and/or Valdez could wind up being used in trade(s).
My guess is Story gets hurt again, Hamilton who starts off at 2b, shifts to SS, opening up a spot for Grissom and I think he'll run with the opportunity next year. Eventually Mayer forces his way up and relegates Hamilton to backup infielder.
|
|
|
Post by okin15 on Jun 24, 2024 10:07:54 GMT -5
I think that looking at typical aging curves might give us some insight here. Lots of players look pretty decent at some point between ages 25-30 but can't sustain it for multiple seasons.
If Grissom can stay healthy, he's probably got the most projection among the big league guys, as he's less than a year older that Xtian Campbell for instance.
Meanwhile, I think you get the most you can out of Valdez, Romy and Hamilton while they're in their prime, but it's hard to see them becoming long-term starters unless you continue to see big improvements the rest of this year and early next.
We're hoping it's Mayer and Grissom by 2026, but it could be any of these guys making a leap, with more chance to the younger guys who also have a track record of minors performance: Grissom, Meidroth, Campbell, Yorke, Hamilton, Valdez... Obviously platoons are OK, esp if someone can back up SS as well.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2024 10:53:52 GMT -5
I think it's hard to avoid the logic that Valdez is one of the odd men out. Not clear he can be more than a platoon bat; no positional versatility; even as a lefty he's redundant with Hamilton, who brings much more in other facets of the game. Yorke has some of the same weaknesses: less versatility, less value on defense/baserunning. He's basically Grissom with a lower ceiling and projection. I think these two make the most sense to be traded regardless of how well they perform; the better they play, the more trade value they have, so that would be great, but I don't see a long-term fit on the team for either of them.
I'd sort of see the long-term order of prioritization like this: Mayer>Story>Grissom>Hamilton>Meidroth>Yorke>Valdez
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 11:46:02 GMT -5
I think it's hard to avoid the logic that Valdez is one of the odd men out. Not clear he can be more than a platoon bat; no positional versatility; even as a lefty he's redundant with Hamilton, who brings much more in other facets of the game. Yorke has some of the same weaknesses: less versatility, less value on defense/baserunning. He's basically Grissom with a lower ceiling and projection. I think these two make the most sense to be traded regardless of how well they perform; the better they play, the more trade value they have, so that would be great, but I don't see a long-term fit on the team for either of them.
I'd sort of see the long-term order of prioritization like this: Mayer>Story>Grissom>Hamilton>Meidroth>Yorke>Valdez I'm much less optimistic on Grissom at this point. I'm not totally convinced he's a much better bet than Yorke or Meidroth, especially when considering his defense has been so bad. I'd say Hamilton has passed him on the pecking order right now. But things can still change a lot by the end of the year.
|
|
ematz1423
Veteran
Posts: 6,332
Member is Online
|
Post by ematz1423 on Jun 24, 2024 11:54:32 GMT -5
I think it's hard to avoid the logic that Valdez is one of the odd men out. Not clear he can be more than a platoon bat; no positional versatility; even as a lefty he's redundant with Hamilton, who brings much more in other facets of the game. Yorke has some of the same weaknesses: less versatility, less value on defense/baserunning. He's basically Grissom with a lower ceiling and projection. I think these two make the most sense to be traded regardless of how well they perform; the better they play, the more trade value they have, so that would be great, but I don't see a long-term fit on the team for either of them.
I'd sort of see the long-term order of prioritization like this: Mayer>Story>Grissom>Hamilton>Meidroth>Yorke>Valdez I'm much less optimistic on Grissom at this point. I'm not totally convinced he's a much better bet than Yorke or Meidroth, especially when considering his defense has been so bad. I'd say Hamilton has passed him on the pecking order right now. But things can still change a lot by the end of the year. This is where I am landing as well, it's just hard to be bullish on Grissom for me. He was rushed up to the majors which hasn't done him any favors and has been injured for large chunks of the last two seasons so it's hard to really gauge him but he hasn't had any MLB success since his 40 game stint in 2022. Depending on what they do with him upon his return from injury he will have less options than Yorke and Meidroth and is older than those guys if even slightly.
|
|
|
Post by oldfaithful2019 on Jun 24, 2024 12:11:33 GMT -5
I'm much less optimistic on Grissom at this point. I'm not totally convinced he's a much better bet than Yorke or Meidroth, especially when considering his defense has been so bad. I'd say Hamilton has passed him on the pecking order right now. But things can still change a lot by the end of the year. This is where I am landing as well, it's just hard to be bullish on Grissom for me. He was rushed up to the majors which hasn't done him any favors and has been injured for large chunks of the last two seasons so it's hard to really gauge him but he hasn't had any MLB success since his 40 game stint in 2022. Depending on what they do with him upon his return from injury he will have less options than Yorke and Meidroth and is older than those guys if even slightly. I mean its not like Grissom has created confidence yet but I'm willing to go the long game with him. Unless he rakes on his rehab again and it translates to big league success late in the season, his time is likely to come after a winter reset and healthy spring start. Fortunately the Sox have enough options to stay in contention this season without him. I'm not worried about using an option on Grissom this year. If he is not the answer by 2026, then it is time to move on from him anyway.
|
|
|
Post by incandenza on Jun 24, 2024 12:14:01 GMT -5
I think it's hard to avoid the logic that Valdez is one of the odd men out. Not clear he can be more than a platoon bat; no positional versatility; even as a lefty he's redundant with Hamilton, who brings much more in other facets of the game. Yorke has some of the same weaknesses: less versatility, less value on defense/baserunning. He's basically Grissom with a lower ceiling and projection. I think these two make the most sense to be traded regardless of how well they perform; the better they play, the more trade value they have, so that would be great, but I don't see a long-term fit on the team for either of them.
I'd sort of see the long-term order of prioritization like this: Mayer>Story>Grissom>Hamilton>Meidroth>Yorke>Valdez I'm much less optimistic on Grissom at this point. I'm not totally convinced he's a much better bet than Yorke or Meidroth, especially when considering his defense has been so bad. I'd say Hamilton has passed him on the pecking order right now. But things can still change a lot by the end of the year. I guess I'd see Hamilton as having a more secure role on the major league roster because he can play both 2B and SS and his speed has so much value; but I'd also see him as less likely than Grissom to stick as a starter.
I really don't think anyone's view of Grissom should be much lower than it was when they traded for him. The performance has been abysmal, but that seemed to be purely a function of his poorly timed injury, his poorly timed illness, the team rushing him back (because Valdez was sucking real bad at the time), and then some really bad luck once he actually started to look okay. And I thought his defense was fine too. I am still pretty high on him as a long-term starting-caliber player.
Now if you want to argue that other guys have improved their standing relative to him (especially Hamilton and Meidroth) I think that would be fair.
To flesh out that "order of prioritization I gave above," here's what I'm thinking:
Mayer: when he's ready, he's the starting shortstop Story: when he's healthy, he's the starting shortop; when Mayer's ready, he's the starting second baseman if he can still hit (which is unclear at this point) Grissom: when he's healthy, he has first crack at starting 2B; when Mayer's ready, he's the first fallback option in case of injury or if Story can't hit Hamilton: long-term bench SS/2B who gets significant playing time
Meidroth: potential long-term bench 2B/SS/3B; unproven but should get a shot Yorke: potential starting 2Bman if two or three of the above options fall through and he keeps raking at AAA Valdez: the third piece in a Crochet trade or something?
|
|
|
Post by wanderingdude on Jun 24, 2024 12:15:37 GMT -5
I’m pretty much of the opinion that whatever evaluation or opinion you had on Grissom when the trade was made should be the same opinion you hold now. if you weren’t a believer that he was part of the core before the year that’s completely defensible, but if you thought he was, the 80 at bats after a long layoff and short rehab stint shouldn’t change your mind all that much. As soon as he’s healthy, i would go back to playing everyday at second base. Hopefully that’s relatively soon and we can get a better feel on what he is at the end of the year.
|
|
|
Post by brendan98 on Jun 24, 2024 12:36:20 GMT -5
Barring trades, the Sox will have a lot of viable guys for the 2 middle infield spots.
-Story is the only guy making serious money, if healthy I'd guess he'd be the starting SS next year (unless Mayer proves to be ready between now and the end of Spring Training), if Mayer takes the SS job and Story is healthy, Story could shift to 2B, which would likely send one of Valdez or Grissom to AAA, Hamilton likely sticks as a UIF.
-If Story isn't healthy, and Mayer isn't ready than I would expect the Sox to roll with Hamilton (my guess is that they would really like to let Rafaela just play CF). That would leave you with Rafaela and Grissom splitting 2B in some fashion, unless Yorke forces his way into that competition.
-You'd have to think that the Sox would jump at the chance to trade Story and his remaining contract. Even if he plays well and stays healthy next year for half the season, I'd imagine it would be tough to get anyone to take much more than half of the remaining contract.
-I'd imagine if the Sox make any major deals between now and next season, a middle infielder is probably pretty likely to be in the mix.
|
|
|
Post by scottysmalls on Jun 24, 2024 12:46:16 GMT -5
I'm much less optimistic on Grissom at this point. I'm not totally convinced he's a much better bet than Yorke or Meidroth, especially when considering his defense has been so bad. I'd say Hamilton has passed him on the pecking order right now. But things can still change a lot by the end of the year. I guess I'd see Hamilton as having a more secure role on the major league roster because he can play both 2B and SS and his speed has so much value; but I'd also see him as less likely than Grissom to stick as a starter.
I really don't think anyone's view of Grissom should be much lower than it was when they traded for him. The performance has been abysmal, but that seemed to be purely a function of his poorly timed injury, his poorly timed illness, the team rushing him back (because Valdez was sucking real bad at the time), and then some really bad luck once he actually started to look okay. And I thought his defense was fine too. I am still pretty high on him as a long-term starting-caliber player.
Now if you want to argue that other guys have improved their standing relative to him (especially Hamilton and Meidroth) I think that would be fair.
To flesh out that "order of prioritization I gave above," here's what I'm thinking:
Mayer: when he's ready, he's the starting shortstop Story: when he's healthy, he's the starting shortstop; when Mayer's ready, he's the starting second baseman if he can still hit (which is unclear at this point) Grissom: when he's healthy, he has first crack at starting 2B; when Mayer's ready, he's the first fallback option in case of injury or if Story can't hit Hamilton: long-term bench SS/2B who gets significant playing time
Meidroth: potential long-term bench 2B/SS/3B; unproven but should get a shot Yorke: potential starting 2Bman if two or three of the above options fall through and he keeps raking at AAA Valdez: the third piece in a Crochet trade or something?
I agree that opinions on Grissom shouldn't change much, other than that he's getting further removed from a time when he played well in MLB and he continued to play poor defense (when I think there was some optimism he might have improved there). And for me at least, the stock of every other option is up this year, which doesn't affect my opinion of Grissom but does affect my opinion of where he stands on the pecking order and his likelihood of being the Red Sox starter. As things stand right now if Hamilton and Story were healthy I would not want to start Grissom over either of them. Grissom, because he has some MLB success and is on the 40 will get a crack before Yorke or Meidroth and that makes sense, but if I had to put money on Grissom long term vs. one of Yorke/Meidroth (meaning whoever ends up the better of those two players) I think I'd pick the latter. Again though, that could change by the end of the year. Lots more time to go, lots of team control on all these players.
|
|
|
Post by bishop on Jun 24, 2024 15:43:44 GMT -5
Looking at the 2B/UTIL picture I keep coming back to Nick Yorke for a pitcher, whether it's as the 2nd piece for a starter like Eflin or just traded straight up for a reliever in the Campbell/Weissert range or a depth long guy that bumps Uwasawa/Keller off the 40. Meidroth doesn't need to be added to the 40 this winter so I think he's staying in Woo the rest of this season even if I wouldn't mind seeing him get a shot, we've got Grissom returning to AAA soon where he needs to play and get timing back, Mayer playing well enough he could handle a promotion, and while it's possibly helped guys like Romy, Westbrook, Sogard, Yorke show versatility we're running out of spots to play them in AAA when Grissom and Casas are back.
Not sure what Nick's trade value is these days but he's raking in AAA so far and he's got the prospect pedigree so I assume he has value that the 4A guys don't have even if he can't play SS, but do we want him on the 40 man next year if we have a healthy Story, Hamilton, (Cedanne) who can all play SS competently with Mayer and Meidroth as depth and Grissom/Valdez in that 2B mix? Unless they've given up on Grissom (and I doubt that!) I don't see where he makes sense.
|
|
|
Post by julyanmorley on Jun 24, 2024 15:47:24 GMT -5
By about May 2025 I would like to see
Marcelo/Story are starting
Hamilton and Meidroth are major league backups
Valdez has found his level as an up and down 27th man type
Yorke is trying to prove he should be in the majors
Grissom is endearing himself to his teammates on the south side of Chicago
|
|
|
Post by cmax on Jun 25, 2024 6:54:11 GMT -5
David Hamilton seems like the ideal starting 2B for this emerging core.
He and Duran have been central to this team forging an identity over the past 7 weeks.
Hamilton has been a top 100 position player since he became a starter in mid-May and by far the top base-runner in all of MLB. Meantime, the Red Sox have emerged largely on the strength of speed, base-running and athleticism to go with their solid pitching. Hamilton has been a key catalyst and contributor to their comebacks and big innings during this stretch. Of course, he is also a real weapon off the bench, but I like him hitting 1-2 with Duran and being a difference maker and culture setter for this team.
|
|
|
Post by rkarp on Jun 25, 2024 9:16:13 GMT -5
I like what Zanetello might be as well, although disappointed with his slow start/injuries Romero also is someone that could emerge at 2b in the next 2-3 seasons
|
|
|