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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 27, 2024 18:35:03 GMT -5
I have updated the Craig Breslow scoreboard for the midway point of the season. Negative value of the Grissom/Sale swap dwarfs everything else, unfortunately. Are you going to update the Bloom scoreboard? Might be illuminating to see how many surplus value one year deals are going to end up offset by the ongoing Story and Yoshida contracts. on the other hand Hamilton, Abreu and Wong are all adding substantially to the + column and have many more years to go |
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 27, 2024 18:41:25 GMT -5
Are you going to update the Bloom scoreboard? Might be illuminating to see how many surplus value one year deals are going to end up offset by the ongoing Story and Yoshida contracts. on the other hand Hamilton, Abreu and Wong are all adding substantially to the + column and have many more years to go Sure let's see it all. Will the end result be that he was good trading for and paying under 6 yr service time players and bad in free agency? He may have demonstrated acumen picking up the right players, but let's be clear that the financial component that he was exploiting was the CBA system. Everybody looks good paying pre-FA players next to nothing on these simplistic models. |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 27, 2024 18:44:15 GMT -5
I do not wish to contribute to Chaim Bloom discourse at this time.
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ematz1423
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Post by ematz1423 on Jun 27, 2024 18:47:02 GMT -5
This site sometimes make me feel like time is a flat circle...
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 27, 2024 18:48:28 GMT -5
on the other hand Hamilton, Abreu and Wong are all adding substantially to the + column and have many more years to go Sure let's see it all. Will the end result be that he was good trading for and paying under 6 yr service time players and bad in free agency? He may have demonstrated acumen picking up the right players, but let's be clear that the financial component that he was exploiting was the CBA system. Everybody looks good paying pre-FA players next to nothing on these simplistic models. edit: deleted comment so as not to fall into another Bloom debate |
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 27, 2024 18:56:59 GMT -5
Sure let's see it all. Will the end result be that he was good trading for and paying under 6 yr service time players and bad in free agency? He may have demonstrated acumen picking up the right players, but let's be clear that the financial component that he was exploiting was the CBA system. Everybody looks good paying pre-FA players next to nothing on these simplistic models. edit: deleted comment so as not to fall into another Bloom debate It's not really a Bloom debate at all. It's a debate about the best way to judge any front office regime and it's not using publicly available, simplistic contract valuation models to declare surplus value winners and losers. Not understanding that undercurrent to the Bloom discussions just leads to making the same mistakes with the next guy. |
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Post by scottysmalls on Jun 27, 2024 19:04:24 GMT -5
edit: deleted comment so as not to fall into another Bloom debate It's not really a Bloom debate at all. It's a debate about the best way to judge any front office regime and it's not using publicly available, simplistic contract valuation models to declare surplus value winners and losers. Not understanding that undercurrent to the Bloom discussions just leads to making the same mistakes with the next guy. nobody said that that was the best way to judge a front office so I’m really not sure what you’re arguing about here |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 27, 2024 19:16:56 GMT -5
It is a stupid way to judge a front office because nobody makes enough moves to ever reach the long run. I enjoy rooting for my side to rack up dubs though. One legitimate criticism is I do not account for the cost of eating up roster space, which would for instance change the Mitch Moreland for Jeisson Rosario + Hudson Potts trade from a nothing for nothing wash into a piece of mildly bad business for the Red Sox. I do not wish to put in the effort to account for that.
If I wanted to judge a front office I'd first look to see if they did anything disqualifyingly moronic like the Kris Bryant contract, then I'd ask myself if it seems like there's a principle agent problem here and they're not aligned with my interests, then finally I'd put on my extremely objective fanboy glasses and see if it seems like they actually have some kind of identifiable edge on the league.
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 27, 2024 20:49:32 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time
A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results
Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out.
In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time
Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 27, 2024 21:55:19 GMT -5
The vibes are immaculate boys Fitting, as Dalmatians are one of the more insane breeds of dogs. My uncle had one, and if ever a dog behaved like someone on crack, Sparky the Dalmatian was one. Dalmatians and St Bernards are two of the most inbred breeds. Just more animal rights phonies. I don't hold that against Liam, it's the norm. |
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tmg
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Post by tmg on Jun 27, 2024 22:18:47 GMT -5
Fitting, as Dalmatians are one of the more insane breeds of dogs. My uncle had one, and if ever a dog behaved like someone on crack, Sparky the Dalmatian was one. Dalmatians and St Bernards are two of the most inbred breeds. Just more animal rights phonies. I don't hold that against Liam, it's the norm. Olive is a rescue dog who they found abandoned in the woods. |
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jun 27, 2024 22:32:03 GMT -5
Dalmatians and St Bernards are two of the most inbred breeds. Just more animal rights phonies. I don't hold that against Liam, it's the norm. Olive is a rescue dog who they found abandoned in the woods. Cool. It's actually not my issue. We own 5 mutts but I've owned German Shepherds and Pomeranians. I was more commenting on Shagworthy's "insane". Odd Aside. My last German Shepherd died on our wedding day when she got into the garbage from the party. We ended up postponing our honeymoon to burry her. After, we went on our honeymoon then 9 month later, our eldest was born. Maybe..... |
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Post by Smittyw on Jun 28, 2024 7:19:20 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out. In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well The Grissom trade was never really about 2024 to begin with, so I'm willing to give it some time before even thinking of complaining about that one. |
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Post by Soxfansince1971 on Jun 28, 2024 8:28:03 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out. In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well People defended Bloom, because so many ‘fans’ blamed him for trading Mookie Betts. There is no way that the decision to trade him came from Bloom. It was the FO. Bloom’s inactivity at his last two trading deadlines did him in (along with Story and Yoshida). He did not do enough to add to Boston, but the prospects he added will prove to be big wins in those trades. The 2020 ‘last’ place finish was on the FO and DD, whereas, 2022 and 2023 were on Bloom and inactivity at the deadlines and offseason MLB moves. |
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 28, 2024 8:51:03 GMT -5
Didn’t realize tonight is on Apple TV
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Post by pappyman99 on Jun 28, 2024 8:52:52 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out. In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well People defended Bloom, because so many ‘fans’ blamed him for trading Mookie Betts. There is no way that the decision to trade him came from Bloom. It was the FO. Bloom’s inactivity at his last two trading deadlines did him in (along with Story and Yoshida). He did not do enough to add to Boston, but the prospects he added will prove to be big wins in those trades. The 2020 ‘last’ place finish was on the FO and DD, whereas, 2022 and 2023 were on Bloom and inactivity at the deadlines and offseason MLB moves. I agree with everything here mostly, but if you say he messed up the deadlines you get the “what about Abreu and Hamilton” and the point is yeah he could have had more of those guys for our team now. Or the Yoshida signing, people try to defend but it was laughed at at the time and he has been awful since. The last 3 prior gms were fired for real reasons, Bloom wasn’t some victim and he was the only of the last 4 gms to not win a World Series, and he got as long as the ones that did. I hope Breslow is better and more decisive, we will see |
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Jun 28, 2024 9:01:45 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out. In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well People defended Bloom, because so many ‘fans’ blamed him for trading Mookie Betts. There is no way that the decision to trade him came from Bloom. It was the FO. Bloom’s inactivity at his last two trading deadlines did him in (along with Story and Yoshida). He did not do enough to add to Boston, but the prospects he added will prove to be big wins in those trades. The 2020 ‘last’ place finish was on the FO and DD, whereas, 2022 and 2023 were on Bloom and inactivity at the deadlines and offseason MLB moves. I think you mostly hit the nail on the head here. I don't think there are a ton of people out there who thought Bloom did an incredible job, but the criticisms of him were always seriously overblown and I think most of the "defense" of him has just been pushing back on the degree of said criticisms. |
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jun 28, 2024 9:18:48 GMT -5
Verdugo down to a 100 wRC+. Water finds its level
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Post by incandenza on Jun 28, 2024 9:20:20 GMT -5
Bloom and Breslow "it's the same picture" meme.
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 28, 2024 9:30:14 GMT -5
Verdugo down to a 100 wRC+. Water finds its level I saw Yankee fans on social media getting super excited about Verdugo the first few months, and in my head I’m like, “I remember that phase.” I still maintain they don’t trade him to the Yankees if they had any feelings whatsoever he was finally going to put it all together for a full season. |
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Post by incandenza on Jun 28, 2024 9:54:49 GMT -5
Verdugo down to a 100 wRC+. Water finds its level He might be the most consistent player in the game. Since 2019, not counting 2020:
- xwOBA between .324 and .340 every year - wRC+ between 98 and 112 (98 and d106 since 2021) - WAR between 1.1 and 2.1 - HR totals of 12, 13, 11, 13, and now 9 this season playing in Yankee Stadium - OAA between -1 and +1 in RF every year
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Post by bojacksoxfan on Jun 28, 2024 10:07:03 GMT -5
It is a stupid way to judge a front office because nobody makes enough moves to ever reach the long run. I enjoy rooting for my side to rack up dubs though. One legitimate criticism is I do not account for the cost of eating up roster space, which would for instance change the Mitch Moreland for Jeisson Rosario + Hudson Potts trade from a nothing for nothing wash into a piece of mildly bad business for the Red Sox. I do not wish to put in the effort to account for that. If I wanted to judge a front office I'd first look to see if they did anything disqualifyingly moronic like the Kris Bryant contract, then I'd ask myself if it seems like there's a principle agent problem here and they're not aligned with my interests, then finally I'd put on my extremely objective fanboy glasses and see if it seems like they actually have some kind of identifiable edge on the league. That's a perfectly reasonable way of looking at things. Honestly, it's probably mostly a me problem because as I've got older I've become much less of a fanboy and much more interested in looking at baseball as a whole objectively. Ironically, I decided to start posting here and really following the Sox minors again to get back some of that fanboy spirit. I don't mean to be an occasional killjoy. It just comes naturally to me.  |
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Post by julyanmorley on Jun 28, 2024 11:33:39 GMT -5
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asm18
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Post by asm18 on Jun 28, 2024 11:48:14 GMT -5
Remember when he nearly murdered the 2021 season the last series of the year in Washington by talking shit to Juan Soto
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Post by bentossaurus on Jun 28, 2024 12:01:26 GMT -5
I’ll never understand how Bloom gets so defended every time A critique comes up, he got fired for real reasons / poor results Overall Breslow has been nice. Yeah I’d like to have Sale back now that we know he wouldn’t fall of his bike and miss the year and Grissom would be out. In the end Sale is 35 and would have been In the last year of his contract and never pitched…. I think most gms would have made the same trade at the time Grissom needs to be 2B and hit for the return to be nice, has not started well People defended Bloom, because so many ‘fans’ blamed him for trading Mookie Betts. There is no way that the decision to trade him came from Bloom. It was the FO. Bloom’s inactivity at his last two trading deadlines did him in (along with Story and Yoshida). He did not do enough to add to Boston, but the prospects he added will prove to be big wins in those trades. The 2020 ‘last’ place finish was on the FO and DD, whereas, 2022 and 2023 were on Bloom and inactivity at the deadlines and offseason MLB moves. Very succinctly and well said, although I'd call it indecision more than inactivity. I'm keeping this just so I can have something to refer back to whenever the next inevitable Chaim argument comes around. |
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