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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 14:00:37 GMT -5
Hate to say it but probably at least 28 other managers would make the same stupid decision. That is baseball 2024. So worried about "protecting" pitchers, the wussification of pitching. I mean are they wrong wrt to “protecting” pitchers? Seems like pitchers are suffering elbow injuries at an alarming rate the past few seasons I mean look at our top SP prospects. But it was 54 pitches and a perfect game. It doesn't feel like these extra protections have really helped save these pitchers from arm problems. I'd rather just give an extended leash and give extended time off if needed.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 14:00:46 GMT -5
Four chances to score 2 runs against this staff (and of course our staff has to have shut out innings).
It can happen - but will it?
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Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2024 14:01:23 GMT -5
This one is confusing. Criswell is rested. The pitch count was low. He was obviously dealing. He does not have egregious times through the order splits. Hill, on the other hand, had just been used yesterday, and twice in the last three days. And just generally speaking they shouldn't be expecting Hill to be some kind of shut down reliever or whatever. Just really odd. Cora presumably had *some* reason for that decision but for the life of me I have no idea what it could be.
(Incidentally, that proposed rule that the starter has to go 6 IP would have saved Cora from himself in this one.)
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 1, 2024 14:02:05 GMT -5
Come on, Cooper Criswell isn't someone you ever want facing lefties in a close game if you have enough arms to get through the rest of the game
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 14:03:24 GMT -5
Pretty interesting hearing Will M air his frustration at that bone headed decision by Cora.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 14:04:00 GMT -5
Come on, Cooper Criswell isn't someone you ever want facing lefties in a close game if you have enough arms to get through the rest of the game I do if he's managed a perfect game through 4 innings and 54 pitches. Means he's dealt with lefty hitters already.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2024 14:04:21 GMT -5
Come on, Cooper Criswell isn't someone you ever want facing lefties in a close game if you have enough arms to get through the rest of the game The alternative was apparently Rich Hill facing a righty...
I dunno, you have to be responsive to the context here don't you? He was literally pitching a perfect game.
ADD: Criswell has a 3.48 FIP against lefties and 4.69 against righties...
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2024 14:04:47 GMT -5
Hate to say it but probably at least 28 other managers would make the same stupid decision. That is baseball 2024. So worried about "protecting" pitchers, the wussification of pitching. I mean are they wrong wrt to “protecting” pitchers? Seems like pitchers are suffering elbow injuries at an alarming rate the past few seasons I mean look at our top SP prospects. Gee, maybe you're right and they still arent protecting them enough. Maybe they should yank the starter after 1 inning. Wouldnt want their arms to fall off. Really dude. There is protecting the pitcher and this nonsense. You're telling me you cant tell the difference?
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 1, 2024 14:05:39 GMT -5
I mean are they wrong wrt to “protecting” pitchers? Seems like pitchers are suffering elbow injuries at an alarming rate the past few seasons I mean look at our top SP prospects. Gee, maybe you're right and they still arent protecting them enough. Maybe they should yank the starter after 1 inning. Wouldnt want their arms to fall off. Really dude. There is protecting the pitcher and this nonsense. You're telling me you cant tell the difference? Im referring to your “wussifcation comment”.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2024 14:10:43 GMT -5
Gee, maybe you're right and they still arent protecting them enough. Maybe they should yank the starter after 1 inning. Wouldnt want their arms to fall off. Really dude. There is protecting the pitcher and this nonsense. You're telling me you cant tell the difference? Im referring to your “wussifcation comment”. I'm not calling the pitchers themselves wusses. I'm calling the philosophy of limiting pitchers under any circumstances, even when the eyes can see he's dealing. It's the stupid decision making. You tell me, is this over protecting of pitchers really keeping them healthier? I dont see it. And as far as the aesthetics of the game goes, it sucks. I loved seeing Skubal go 8. I'm glad he has a crack at 20 wins. But I saw a guy who was cruising get taken out because of what?
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 14:10:56 GMT -5
If I look into my crystal ball, I see our team going weakly down to Ks, ground outs and pop ups the next three innings. I think Cora just popped the enthusiasm bubble.
Or - our pen will spring a leak and it won't matter anyway.
it is SO EASY to be cynical about this team.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 14:14:35 GMT -5
Let's say Hill was perfect and it all worked out.
Or if he left Criswell in he immediately gives up a leadoff double.
Baseball is still suppose to be entertaining and pulling a guy from a perfect game ruins that entertainment for me. Even if that's not the most statically sound argument to make.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 14:14:42 GMT -5
Of course it is 4-1. Of course our hitters suck today. Of course Cora's bizarre move is a disaster.
We aren't winning series because we keep losing series.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 1, 2024 14:16:05 GMT -5
Yes, turning over the game to this sturdy bullpen was pure brilliance.
They won't make the playoffs this season and frankly they dont deserve to.
Really, this team is its own worst enemy. Between crappy defense and poor decisions they give games away that they should win. They beat themselves.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 1, 2024 14:16:19 GMT -5
Let's say Hill was perfect and it all worked out. Or if he left Criswell in he immediately gives up a leadoff double. Baseball is still suppose to be entertaining and pulling a guy from a perfect game ruins that entertainment for me. Even if that's not the most statically sound argument to make. I will accept this criticism
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Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2024 14:18:07 GMT -5
So the basic situation is that, after a bit of a lull, the starting pitchers have looked really sharp recently. The bullpen, meanwhile, has completely torched the season since the all-star break. In today's game, Cora had a starter who had thrown 52 pitches through four perfect innings. And he decided that what they needed to do was turn the last 5 innings over to the bullpen - which has proceeded to give up 4 runs before getting 4 outs.
This is just a really hard one to swallow.
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Post by julyanmorley on Sept 1, 2024 14:19:44 GMT -5
This is just a really hard one to swallow. The losses go down better with a quick visit to tankathon.com
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Post by ematz1423 on Sept 1, 2024 14:20:07 GMT -5
Just think how much better the farm is going to look after next draft when they win the lottery and add Ethan Holliday!
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Post by grandsalami on Sept 1, 2024 14:20:14 GMT -5
So the basic situation is that, after a bit of a lull, the starting pitchers have looked really sharp recently. The bullpen, meanwhile, has completely torched the season since the all-star break. In today's game, Cora had a starter who had thrown 52 pitches through four perfect innings. And he decided that what they needed to do was turn the last 5 innings over to the bullpen - which has proceeded to give up 4 runs before getting 4 outs. This is just a really hard one to swallow. The offense has been mostly MIA for the past few weeks as well.
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Post by soxfansince67 on Sept 1, 2024 14:20:58 GMT -5
So the basic situation is that, after a bit of a lull, the starting pitchers have looked really sharp recently. The bullpen, meanwhile, has completely torched the season since the all-star break. In today's game, Cora had a starter who had thrown 52 pitches through four perfect innings. And he decided that what they needed to do was turn the last 5 innings over to the bullpen - which has proceeded to give up 4 runs before getting 4 outs. This is just a really hard one to swallow. And yet - it could be one of those microcosm games of the season. If we lose this game, we are just 3 games over .500. To me, a better than mediocre team getting largely mediocre results.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 14:21:16 GMT -5
This is just a really hard one to swallow. The losses go down better with a quick visit to tankathon.com On the bright side, Red Sox pull even with the Tigers on wins now. Assuming the Red Sox don't come back.
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shagworthy
Veteran
My neckbeard game is on point.
Posts: 1,846
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Post by shagworthy on Sept 1, 2024 14:21:26 GMT -5
TBH I've mostly checked out on the Red Sox since the middle of August and I must say it was a wise decision on my part. How many must win situations have they faced the past few weeks where they just capitulated? I've lost count at this point. They were a fun team for a while and then they faded off into ignominy for reasons we all could speculate until next year.
Bad pitching, fielding, and timely hitting does not a playoff contender make.
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Post by incandenza on Sept 1, 2024 14:22:59 GMT -5
This is just a really hard one to swallow. The losses go down better with a quick visit to tankathon.com Do I feel better if the Red Sox move up from 17th to 13th draft position, or do I feel better thinking that Cora might manage just once to have this team not play worse in the final third of the season?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Sept 1, 2024 14:23:23 GMT -5
The Rich Hill signing was silly. He is 44, hasn't pitched all year, and he gets the call.
Sorry, that decision lends itself the notion that this franchise just aren't serious players anymore.
Not saying the FO and ownership isn't trying or doesn't want to win, but they are just punting on seasons for future success. It isn't a serious addition to the bullpen.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Sept 1, 2024 14:23:48 GMT -5
TBH I've mostly checked out on the Red Sox since the middle of August and I must say it was a wise decision on my part. How many must win situations have they faced the past few weeks where they just capitulated? I've lost count at this point. They were a fun team for a while and then they faded off into ignominy for reasons we all could speculate until next year. Bad pitching, fielding, and timely hitting does not a playoff contender make. I've been checked out since the Rockies series. I thought this team was in serious trouble and when they needed to prove they were worth the investment, they flopped. Though to be fair they haven't really rebounded. Twins have just sucked.
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