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2012 MLB Non Sox
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Post by bsout2 on Dec 14, 2012 21:39:15 GMT -5
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Post by bluechip on Dec 14, 2012 23:10:56 GMT -5
Dickey's contract demands are not particularly exorbitant. He makes total sense if you want a pitcher who will probably give you near-elite performance for two to three years. He is exactly what the Blue Jays need (since they are built for the short run not the long run). For a team trying to build the foundation for sustained success (ie the Red Sox), Niese makes more sense.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 14, 2012 23:59:02 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: D'Arnaud very much in play in Dickey talks between #BlueJays and #Mets. Deal would be bigger, multiple pieces going both ways.
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 15, 2012 1:23:30 GMT -5
Jeff Passan @jeffpassan Source: Mets and Blue Jays on the verge of deal that would send R.A. Dickey to Toronto, Travis D'Arnaud to Mets. Teams looking at medicals. Jeff Passan @jeffpassan There would be more players involved in the trade than Dickey and D'Arnaud. They are the principals.
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Post by remember04 on Dec 15, 2012 8:16:54 GMT -5
Is it me or over the course of the last year have there been a lot of "yeah right, that'll happen" trades actually getting pulled off? The Punto deal, the first Toronto trade, The Wil Myers trade and now we'll see what this ends up as.
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 15, 2012 12:35:50 GMT -5
Lannan to Philles for 1 year/$2.5M base with $2.5M incentives. Disappointed we couldn't get in on that action.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 15, 2012 14:56:33 GMT -5
Lannan to Philles for 1 year/$2.5M base with $2.5M incentives. Disappointed we couldn't get in on that action. Me too! Would have been a nice addition at low cost
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Post by jmei on Dec 15, 2012 15:49:28 GMT -5
There are still many reclamation starting pitchers available in free agency that I imagine the Red Sox will inquire on. Prime examples include:
RISKY VETERANS -Erik Bedard (injury-prone, but at least league-average production when healthy, 4.07 FIP with the Pirates last year) -Francisco Liriano (still awful command, but strikes a lot of guys out. At worst, he's basically an older version of Franklin Morales)
COMING OFF OF INJURY -Dallas Braden (coming off of shoulder surgery but is only 29, is a lefty, and performed well before getting hurt) -Mike Pelfrey (coming off Tommy John surgery, only 29, looked great in three starts in 2012 before getting hurt)
OTHER -Carlos Villanueva (put up decent marks as a starter in 2012, is only 29, has good stuff, can at least be a good swingman)
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 15, 2012 21:47:04 GMT -5
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 Can confirm rpt earlier from colleague @nypost_Mets current construct of Dickey trade is 4-for-3 (Dickey, Thole, minor leaguer) #Mets (cont)
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 Could change because #Bluejays will likely send some $$ to #Mets to cover some cost of Buck, so could be another prospect rather than $$
Joel Sherman @joelsherman1 But right now it's Dickey/Thole/prospect (told not elite) for d/Arnaud/Syndegaard/Buck/prospect (told not elite) #Mets #BluejaysSe
WOW
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 16, 2012 14:34:37 GMT -5
Jeff Passan reporting Jays-Mets trade is done, pending they can extend Dickey. Would be Dickey, Thole, prospect for D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and prospect.
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Post by Chris Mellen on Dec 16, 2012 15:02:15 GMT -5
Jeff Passan reporting Jays-Mets trade is done, pending they can extend Dickey. Would be Dickey, Thole, prospect for D'Arnaud, Syndergaard, Buck, and prospect. Good. I'm working on the Mets' Top 10 25 and Younger for inclusion in the Mets Top 10 on BP and have banked on the trade going through. Nice haul for the Mets in my opinion.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,840
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 16, 2012 15:04:32 GMT -5
Hard to believe some of the top prospects being moved. There was no way I thought the Jays would move D'Arnaud. The Jays better win one over the next couple of years. Their future could be quite bleak in 3 or 4 years.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 16, 2012 15:21:38 GMT -5
Hard to believe some of the top prospects being moved. There was no way I thought the Jays would move D'Arnaud. The Jays better win one over the next couple of years. Their future could be quite bleak in 3 or 4 years. The Red Sox would have trouble matching that package even if they wanted Dickey. AA looks like he is making moves attempting to compete in the short term, which is not a terrible idea considering the current state of the yankees and Red Sox.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 16, 2012 16:43:16 GMT -5
Hard to believe some of the top prospects being moved. There was no way I thought the Jays would move D'Arnaud. The Jays better win one over the next couple of years. Their future could be quite bleak in 3 or 4 years. The Red Sox would have trouble matching that package even if they wanted Dickey. AA looks like he is making moves attempting to compete in the short term, which is not a terrible idea considering the current state of the yankees and Red Sox. Great point. Sees an opening and is hitting it hard. Wonder what they'll do in getting a backup for Arencibia...
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 16, 2012 17:27:37 GMT -5
The Jays are looking short term, and yes, that's not an awful idea given the 2 year outlook of the Yankees and Sox, but that are significantly sacrificing their long term outlook, one in which their system and seemingly financial ability could have competed with everyone in the AL East for the next decade.
It seems like AA is getting pressure to win, and being told/deciding to do so at all costs. I know knuckleball pitchers don't necessarily age the same as other guys, but that's a hell of a package to give up, plus an extension, for a 38 year old with only 3 above replacement level years in the last 7. Even if you don't want to look at WAR, you are trading an elite talent level package for a non elite SP
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Post by ramireja on Dec 16, 2012 19:02:15 GMT -5
The Jays are looking short term, and yes, that's not an awful idea given the 2 year outlook of the Yankees and Sox, but that are significantly sacrificing their long term outlook, one in which their system and seemingly financial ability could have competed with everyone in the AL East for the next decade. It seems like AA is getting pressure to win, and being told/deciding to do so at all costs. I know knuckleball pitchers don't necessarily age the same as other guys, but that's a hell of a package to give up, plus an extension, for a 38 year old with only 3 above replacement level years in the last 7. Even if you don't want to look at WAR, you are trading an elite talent level package for a non elite SP Yes, but those three years are the last three years. The guy has clearly figured something out with the knuckleball...
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 16, 2012 19:17:15 GMT -5
It's only going o be a lot to give up 3 years from now if Dickey doesn't pitch well and the prospects develop as hoped. That doesn't happen a lot,
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 16, 2012 19:29:28 GMT -5
Yes, but those three years are the last three years. The guy has clearly figured something out with the knuckleball... Knuckleballers still age. Tim Wakefield had a pretty damn good stretch from 35-37, but he went downhill after that and was pretty marginal by age 40. Granted, Dickey has established a higher peak and if he just declines a little bit the next three years, the Jays will be pretty happy with that. But the point is, while knuckleballers peak much later than normal pitchers, they still do peak, and they do decline. And Dickey relies on velocity more than most of his brethren. We'll see. But it is interesting that Dayton Moore (known idiot) gets shredded for making the same kind of move while the Jays headed by AA (transcendent genius) are probably going to be everybody's trendy pick for AL champion this spring.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 16, 2012 19:33:19 GMT -5
Dickey's contract demands are not particularly exorbitant. He makes total sense if you want a pitcher who will probably give you near-elite performance for two to three years. He is exactly what the Blue Jays need (since they are built for the short run not the long run). For a team trying to build the foundation for sustained success (ie the Red Sox), Niese makes more sense. Well, they are NOW...
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Post by jmei on Dec 16, 2012 19:34:11 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Dec 16, 2012 19:36:35 GMT -5
The Jays are looking short term, and yes, that's not an awful idea given the 2 year outlook of the Yankees and Sox, but that are significantly sacrificing their long term outlook, one in which their system and seemingly financial ability could have competed with everyone in the AL East for the next decade. It seems like AA is getting pressure to win, and being told/deciding to do so at all costs. I know knuckleball pitchers don't necessarily age the same as other guys, but that's a hell of a package to give up, plus an extension, for a 38 year old with only 3 above replacement level years in the last 7. Even if you don't want to look at WAR, you are trading an elite talent level package for a non elite SP Well, as far as the money aspect, don't underestimate the amount of money that is coming into the game right now through TV/media deals. He may be getting pressure to win, but he may be getting the money to do it too. They've emptied out the system a bit, but still have Gose, Sanchez, Osuna, Stroman, and the young guys in the majors they control. It's easy to forget that even though they're not "prospects" anymore, players like Lawrie and Gose are still cost controlled for a good amount of time.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Dec 16, 2012 21:03:41 GMT -5
Yeah, the Jays have had a better offseason than the Royals. That doesn't mean they've had a good offseason, though. Their roster is suddenly looking pretty old and injury prone, and they're in a much tougher division than the Royals. We'll see, but it's not my favored approach to team building. (Also amazed that I made it through a Dave Cameron article without being significantly angered by anything. I actually read it twice just to make sure.)
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Post by iakovos11 on Dec 17, 2012 12:29:57 GMT -5
And I gues this means the Salty to the Mets trade rumor is significantly less likely now that they have D'Arnaud.
I guess we need to get the Napoli mess figured out before we go trading Salty. But it would be nice to see him somewhere else.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 17, 2012 21:47:01 GMT -5
I am always leery of a pitch coming from the NL to AL especially to AL East. This is 2 teams that have been failing lately and trying to get successful in there own ways. The Blue Jays smell blood and the Mets have no money and want to build on the cheap with cost control. Me personally I just dont believe in the Blue Jays prospects. I don't care what ranking they have.
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Post by curll on Dec 17, 2012 21:52:51 GMT -5
I want Drew Smyly. He's going to be a good one.
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