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Post by jimed14 on Jul 11, 2014 21:53:13 GMT -5
Johnson is a #5 starter at best whereas Piscotty will be an everyday starter and has a chance to be an above average OF. But the real bad pick, and the one I highlighted above, is Light. Unless there's a miraculous transformation he won't even be and MLB pen guy. Waste of a high pick. Mookie was a great pick. And Napoli + Victorino won us a World Series.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 11, 2014 21:53:53 GMT -5
There should be a prerequisite for all this hindsight that you had to feel that way at the time of the draft. Cool. I hated the Light pick as I recall. Liked Marrero even though many here didn't. Thought it was a lackluster draft overall. And you also need to list everything you're wrong on.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 11, 2014 22:06:17 GMT -5
Cool. I hated the Light pick as I recall. Liked Marrero even though many here didn't. Thought it was a lackluster draft overall. And you also need to list everything you're wrong on. From that draft? I really liked the Denny signing and thought he would move quickly through the system. Turns out so far he just likes to move quickly on women and down Florida roads. As I said, I thought that draft pool in general was weak. I admitted I was wrong on wanting McCann this year. Tanaka blew up, and even though that can happen to any pitcher, I am now wrong on him til he comes back and proves he can pitch at an elite level again. I wanted them to make Ball into an OF and still do but according to the Ball lovers I'm wrong on that. I was also wrong to date my 2nd college gf. She ended up being unpleasable, a ho, and a heavy drug user. There's also the time I "borrowed" a boss's Porsche 1989 959. That turned out to be wrong, at least in terms of advancing my career.
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Post by oilcansman on Jul 18, 2014 12:08:06 GMT -5
And you also need to list everything you're wrong on. From that draft? I really liked the Denny signing and thought he would move quickly through the system. Turns out so far he just likes to move quickly on women and down Florida roads. As I said, I thought that draft pool in general was weak. I admitted I was wrong on wanting McCann this year. Tanaka blew up, and even though that can happen to any pitcher, I am now wrong on him til he comes back and proves he can pitch at an elite level again. I wanted them to make Ball into an OF and still do but according to the Ball lovers I'm wrong on that. I was also wrong to date my 2nd college gf. She ended up being unpleasable, a ho, and a heavy drug user. There's also the time I "borrowed" a boss's Porsche 1989 959. That turned out to be wrong, at least in terms of advancing my career. Really, wherever you are, please stand up and take a bow. Well done!!
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Post by bcpatsox18 on Jul 19, 2014 9:43:26 GMT -5
Has anyone here seen Ball in person? And if so, what did you think/can you give us a scouting report on him currently? Players aren't static entities, so I like to get an update on guys whenever I can
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alnipper
Veteran
Living the dream
Posts: 619
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Post by alnipper on Jul 20, 2014 10:05:04 GMT -5
Another solid outing by Ball yesterday is giving me a little hope on him now. He went 5IP 2H 0BB 4K.
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Post by njsox on Jul 20, 2014 12:12:21 GMT -5
Another solid outing by Ball yesterday is giving me a little hope on him now. He went 5IP 2H 0BB 4K. Ball has been fairly solid in his last 10 starts. I thought the Greenville assignment was way over his head to start out, but he has shown the ability to make adjustments and has been very good in 3 of his last 4 starts. He has shown an ability to throw strikes and now is showing an ability to miss bats. If we see an uptick in his "stuff" then we may have something in him. We really need some first hand scouting info from his current form.
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Post by saysbill on Jul 20, 2014 13:14:22 GMT -5
All 4Ks were of the swinging variety, too.
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cdj
Veteran
Posts: 14,216
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Post by cdj on Jul 20, 2014 23:57:09 GMT -5
3.30 ERA and a WHIP under 1 in July.
SSS, I know, but improvement....definitely.
TO THE OUTFIELD!!
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
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Post by nomar on Jul 21, 2014 0:22:39 GMT -5
He was aggressively started in Greenville and was a cold-weather product (which is a bigger deal than people realize). The slow start shouldn't surprise anyone. He's been great in July, and if he keeps this, will be on most top 100s going into next year. We shouldn't forget that he has the highest ceiling of any of our SPs. I wouldn't be shocked if he was a top 50 guy by this time next year.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,941
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Post by ericmvan on Jul 21, 2014 1:46:51 GMT -5
Ball, before July versus July:
K% BB% HRC BABIP GB% .136 .080 .030 .413 .329 .208 .078 .019 .208 .426
A reminder that BABIP, in the low minors, is very much a pitching skill. The improvements in K rate and HRC, taken together, have about an 8% chance of happening at random, but the odds against the BABIP split being random, on its own, are 140 to 1.
The improvement in GB% has a 20% chance of being random, but it's still nice to see.
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Post by lonborgski on Jul 21, 2014 8:21:40 GMT -5
Another tall pitcher that comes to my mind with Trey's struggles at ages 19 and 20, is Alex Meyer. The two are not comparable physically (left vs. right, 6-5 vs. 6-9, Meyer throws harder), but I followed Meyer at Kentucky after we on this board had hopes of signing him out of high school and Meyer had a very difficult first two years (ages 19 and 20). Meyer finally put it together as a 21-year old college junior and hasn't looked back since.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 21, 2014 12:10:28 GMT -5
My favorite thing about Ball is that in a year when everyone is lamenting the amount of elbow injuries (year of the elbow, etc.) This is a kid from a cold-weather state, who had a father that limited his use ( ie. wouldn't allow him to through a breaking Ball till this past year.)
All the experts are saying that most of these kids are damaged goods before they are even drafted. Here we get a guy who has been protected and is raw and everyone cries that he's not polished enough.
I think Ball could be a prototype for the types of guys who end up with long career's and no Tommy John injuries. He really reminds me of a young Lester for lack of a better comparison.
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Post by grmoore27 on Jul 21, 2014 15:45:51 GMT -5
if a curve ball is thrown properly it does not damage the elbow. Guys who twist and torque their arm for the curve action have problems. When throwing the curve ball, only your forearm position should differ from your forearm position when throwing a fast ball. Therefore, it was pointless for ball not to be throwing a curveball to begin with. Pitching is not an injury waiting to happen, it is an ongoing injury that eventually becomes too serious to pitch through. Proper mechanics and luck keep pitchers healthy enough to perform.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 21, 2014 15:57:21 GMT -5
if a curve ball is thrown properly it does not damage the elbow. Guys who twist and torque their arm for the curve action have problems. When throwing the curve ball, only your forearm position should differ from your forearm position when throwing a fast ball. Therefore, it was pointless for ball not to be throwing a curveball to begin with. Pitching is not an injury waiting to happen, it is an ongoing injury that eventually becomes too serious to pitch through. Proper mechanics and luck keep pitchers healthy enough to perform. I'm guessing it's about 15-16 year olds not having proper mechanics.
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Post by grmoore27 on Jul 21, 2014 16:04:09 GMT -5
if a curve ball is thrown properly it does not damage the elbow. Guys who twist and torque their arm for the curve action have problems. When throwing the curve ball, only your forearm position should differ from your forearm position when throwing a fast ball. Therefore, it was pointless for ball not to be throwing a curveball to begin with. Pitching is not an injury waiting to happen, it is an ongoing injury that eventually becomes too serious to pitch through. Proper mechanics and luck keep pitchers healthy enough to perform. I'm guessing it's about 15-16 year olds not having proper mechanics. could be... could also be they though too much, not resting the arm enough, or a combination of both bad mechanics and over use. Remember I said pitching is an injury every time you throw a pitch. The more you throw and don't heal the more likely you will be injured especially if you torque your elbow to create movement. But throwing a curve correctly is has no more strain on your arm than a fastball does. that is simply a fact
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 21, 2014 16:30:27 GMT -5
The main point here is that it's easier to throw a fastball without hurting yourself than a curve when you don't know much about mechanics as kids don't.
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Post by grmoore27 on Jul 21, 2014 18:27:20 GMT -5
The main point here is that it's easier to throw a fastball without hurting yourself than a curve when you don't know much about mechanics as kids don't. not to split hairs but the main point was ball did not throw curveballs until he was 18 and therefore, he is not damaged goods like other pitching prospects who did throw a curveball at younger ages. I disagree with that premise. I think that young pitchers who throw too much without proper rest time to heal and those who throw curve balls at young ages incorrectly, end up having elbow problems. There are plenty of pitchers who threw curve balls in high school and did not have elbow problems later on. I think the fact that ball did not throw a curve ball in high school is not all that relevant to his current health because if he did throw a curve ball correctly while in high school he would be just as healthy as he is now, all things being equal.
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Post by hammerhead on Jul 21, 2014 19:23:53 GMT -5
I will split hairs...
It's about the fact that a 15 year old hasn't had time to grow into his ligaments. When the bones and ligaments and tendons are just developing, throwing a breaking ball with any torque can cause serious damage.
It's about arm mileage not anything else.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 21, 2014 22:47:43 GMT -5
Point of information: he threw a curve his junior and senior years at least. Perhaps even sophomore. So he was younger than 18.
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Post by regnikkb on Jul 21, 2014 23:37:57 GMT -5
Point of information: he threw a curve his junior and senior years at least. Perhaps even sophomore. So he was younger than 18. Trey only threw fastball, change, & knuckle before his junior year
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 22, 2014 11:43:09 GMT -5
Point of information: he threw a curve his junior and senior years at least. Perhaps even sophomore. So he was younger than 18. Trey only threw fastball, change, & knuckle before his junior year Thanks. Couldn't remember if it was sophomore or junior year he started with the curve. Was listening to an interview with Owens recently that I think confused my recollection, because he did the same thing but started on the curve either freshman or sophomore year.
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Post by grmoore27 on Jul 22, 2014 18:26:10 GMT -5
I will split hairs... It's about the fact that a 15 year old hasn't had time to grow into his ligaments. When the bones and ligaments and tendons are just developing, throwing a breaking ball with any torque can cause serious damage. It's about arm mileage not anything else. I agree... throwing a breaking ball with torque will cause damage to the elbow, I already said that. throwing a curve ball properly involves NO TORQUE. therefore, 15 year olds can throw curve balls and still be healthy dong it provided they use the correct FOREARM angle and grip to create the curve action and not by torquing there elbow. As a result, the fact that trey waited until whenever it was ..junior year or whatever-- to throw a curve is not dispositive with respect to his health. I'll say it again... throwing a curve does not damage your elbow anymore than a fastball does if it is thrown correctly so there should be no age limit to throwing it. Guess what... if your 25 27 15 or 60 years of age torquing your elbow to create movement is going to injure you at some point
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Post by vermontsox1 on Jul 26, 2014 12:27:02 GMT -5
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Post by greatscottcooper on Jul 26, 2014 13:48:51 GMT -5
I hope this puts to rest some of the Ball bashing. The only argument that existed against Ball was a SSS, the only counter point to his recent success is.....a SSS.
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