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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 18:56:04 GMT -5
Maybe the new regime will encourage the drafting of a high floor college starter this time !! Anthony Ranaudo fit that bill coming out of LSU. For me TINSTAAPP 🤷🏾♂️ So did Roger Clemens. Just saying.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 15:30:46 GMT -5
I sure do miss 2021 Whitlock. In fairness though, I'm sure the kid is still hurting emotionally. Good point. That must be understandably weighing on him.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 15:29:03 GMT -5
One negative that might matter: Whitlock continues to look pretty diminished. He was hurt by a call, but he was helped by calls, too — and either way, hr gave up a legit line drive single and a bomb. Have to wonder how truly healthy he is.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 15:28:34 GMT -5
Just saw that we hit .171 in this three game series. Yikes Your 79 win prediction might he too optimistic.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 15:20:08 GMT -5
I cant help but wonder if Cora manages for 2 or 3 more seasons and then moves upstairs in some capacity to make room for Jason Varitek to become the next manager, win-win for both guys. I've always had the impression that managing is not what Varitek would be comfortable with or interested in. I cant recall where but I remember reading that Varitek was very interested in managing. I'm not sure he'd relate as well to his players as I think Cora does, but I do think he is interested in ultimately managing.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 15:17:39 GMT -5
He is currently a negative offensive player on fangraphs. His wRC+ is 102 and falling. If he is having problems with his hands, they should shut him down, because otherwise he is going to end the season with truly rough offensive numbers. His WAR is literally almost all defense. I think most of us want to see a guy who hits more. I suspect, too, after a rough stretch, many would rather go with new blood than a known quantity, and of all the guys on the list, he is the one with the most predictable outcome. And Jarren Duran is ahead of Verdugo in fWAR. I was surprised about the below average Off value for Verdugo, so looked at it and his hitting is above average but his base running is dragging him below. He shouldn’t be a negative base runner. The Red Sox as a team are 26th in baseball in baserunning value and that’s just annoying. They have some slow guys but being that bad is also partially a coaching thing. Gotta get that cleaned up. Being captain obvious here, but I agree with your assessment of them being a slow bad base running team. This is the main reason I'm not anxious to lose Duran. He gives them a dimension they lack and in this bigger bases adjusted game I think that Duran's skill set is needed while I feel that offensively even though they do it kind of differently Verdugo and Yoshida are redundant offensively. They'd have to eat a good chunk of Yoshida's contract while I sense that if Cora is back Verdugo wont be, that they'll deal Verdugo away. With Abreu around and possibly Duvall returning Verdugos ability to play RF well is mitigated somewhat, which is a weird thing to say given their terrible defense this season.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 17, 2023 8:02:49 GMT -5
I put Yoshida down as one but think he will be the DH. Which would leave room for another OFer. Same here. I didnt check off Abreu but would if Yoshida is the DH as I'd anticipate him to be.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 16, 2023 15:28:03 GMT -5
I've always liked Cora. He relates well with his players, is seemingly forthright, is articulate, good with the press and reputedly is a good, modern baseball mind. He is not yesterday's former player come manager. At some point I suppose all managers get a bit stale...and with Chaim being replaced, does ownership decide now is the opportune time for a full cleansing. Even if so, I think the organization highly values Cora and he will be offered a respected place. I cant help but wonder if Cora manages for 2 or 3 more seasons and then moves upstairs in some capacity to make room for Jason Varitek to become the next manager, win-win for both guys.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 16, 2023 15:25:41 GMT -5
I'd give Bloom a 4 out of 10 for PoBO.
I think the idea of what Bloom represented was a lot more appealing than what the reality of Bloom really was.
Yes, it was a bloated payroll when he came in with little talent in the upper minors but he still had a strong core, not unlike the core the Sox still had on hand in 2013 hanging around from 2007. He had challenges for sure, but as 2021 showed it didnt have to spiral into abject mediocrity and irrelevance.
That's one of the reasons he was fired. I know nobody here cares about the pink hat type fan, I hate that term by the way, but there is zero buzz on the Sox. Like none. The irony is that the sportstalk is heavily reserved for the Patriots who have become every bit mediocre as the Sox have, but whatever.
It doesnt change the fact that the ballpark is half full, and a number of fans are rooting for the visitors or that the Sox season has been over by August for the 3rd year of 4.
Bloom guarded the farm system which is a good thing although I question if he let some of the values of his minor leaguers as trade chips diminish, which is problematic and speaks to his biggest issue, the need to sort out his talent, use his judgment and act decisively and timely.
It's obvious that ownership doesnt trust him to make the necessary moves to help restore the Sox to prominence. Of course you can make a very convincing case that ownership is even more responsible for their problems than Bloom was.
Ownership has been absent and unaccountable to the fans so they use Sam Kennedy as their mouthpiece. It's apparent the Sox are just another item on their portfolio and profit margin has become more important than winning, but now that fan apathy has set in they got the kick in the ass they needed to realize they need to spend. The idea that agents and other GMs dont care to deal with Bloom is damning as is the way he obsesses over the values of players than just going out and getting what they need - of course ownerships hands arent clean on that last point.
I've detailed my disagreements with Bloom over the years and commended him when I like a move he made.
If I was in the organization would I want Bloom there with me? Yes, I would. By all accounts he is a good man, with integrity, and he is a smart man and i know he has a vision. The problem is he wasn't decisive enough about how to execute that vision. The farm is a good start, but it is thin in pitching so they need to find other avenues to solve the pitching issues to mix in with the young up and coming position players.
He just wasn't the right guy to lead the Sox. They need somebody more flexible, more concerned with winning than simply just finding value, somebody who can keep an eye on the future while making sure the present is highly relevant, all while working for a fickle ownership group. Good luck to the next PoBO, whiever he or even she may be.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 16, 2023 15:03:48 GMT -5
Trading Verdugo should be a high priority. There is no reason to extend him after next year, so get something for him. Surely yhere is some sucker out there who still thinks he’s going to be better than .280 with 15 home runs. I was one of those suckers. I thought we were seeing a new Verdugo. He was playing solid defense and running the bases better and hitting. But 2 benching later I'm cured of that. He's a decent player but he'll never be more than that despite his talent. I'm for trading him if they can improve in a different area, namely pitching.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 16, 2023 15:00:46 GMT -5
Chris Sale really has never been the same since he aired it out at the 2018 All-Star game. No, but for a half dozen start stretch he was vintage Sale. He was dominant against the Cards going 8 innings. In true 2023 Red Sox fashion the Sox managed to blow Sale's lead in the 9th and they lost. But I did see the old Sale. Problem is if we do see that, he will just get hurt again. You cant convince me that hes healthy right now with that diminished velocity.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 16, 2023 14:55:10 GMT -5
I'd try to bring Duvall back. I think he's a good fit for the team. I think I would QO Duvall and I feel like it's 60/40 maybe that he accepts it? I dont see a reason to QO him. I'd give him 2 years 25 million. He has had 2 back to back injury plagued seasons, so I'm not sure he'd get that much more in free agency. If he accepted the QO that's 20 million for a year. That's kind of a lot.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 21:16:29 GMT -5
Home sweet home. They got the basement to themselves where I suspect they'll wind up?
Can they go 8-6 to make history? At this point, doubtful, but crazier things have happened.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 21:11:29 GMT -5
Ohtani is about as bad a fit for the team that the best player in baseball could be. So how can you resist if it falls into your lap? Have to be prepared to be in another payroll stratosphere because with Ohtani unable to pitch you still have to get two top starters, so you still have to sign a big free agent like Yamanoto, too, but I cant imagine you could sign yet another free agent starter so you have to trade from your outfield and prospect pool, like Duran, who I dont like giving up, plus others from the farm, perhaps touching a tier of prospects you'd rather not. And of course you'd have to play Yoshida in LF and Raffy at 3b long term as Rafdy would lose his Avenue to DH eventually. The lineup would have the best LH power in the league with Ohtani, Devers, Casas, and even Yoshida, or even Abreu if Versugo was dealt to save money, and eventually Roman Anthony if they can hang onto him. They would be so thin from the right side of the plate. I know....they could trade for Mike Trout, problem solved lol Luckily a rhh 2nd division/platoon bat who can take advantage of Fenway hasn't proven to be all that difficult to find in the past. Get one or two of those to round things out a bit. Sure ideally you have a Manny and Ortiz in the middle of the lineup but for one of the best 3 bats in the game, you find a way to make it work with another lhh. I'd try to bring Duvall back. I think he's a good fit for the team.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 20:23:57 GMT -5
I had them 81-81 I believe. I have a decent shot although I'd like to revise it to 80-82.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 20:21:49 GMT -5
Ohtani is about as bad a fit for the team that the best player in baseball could be. So how can you resist if it falls into your lap? Have to be prepared to be in another payroll stratosphere because with Ohtani unable to pitch you still have to get two top starters, so you still have to sign a big free agent like Yamanoto, too, but I cant imagine you could sign yet another free agent starter so you have to trade from your outfield and prospect pool, like Duran, who I dont like giving up, plus others from the farm, perhaps touching a tier of prospects you'd rather not. And of course you'd have to play Yoshida in LF and Raffy at 3b long term as Rafdy would lose his Avenue to DH eventually. The lineup would have the best LH power in the league with Ohtani, Devers, Casas, and even Yoshida, or even Abreu if Versugo was dealt to save money, and eventually Roman Anthony if they can hang onto him. They would be so thin from the right side of the plate. I know....they could trade for Mike Trout, problem solved lol
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 20:07:21 GMT -5
Hiring Cora who has never been in a front office would be a catastrophe. If he was GM/the new guys’ assistant then I wouldn’t care, but I can’t imagine them hiring him to run the org. While I'm not recommending Cora I'll say from what I read Cora might know the organization from top to bottom more than we think. I'm not saying more than BO, Romero, or Ferreira, but it sounds like Cora concerns himself with more than just the big league talent which seems a bit different than the typical manager.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 20:00:10 GMT -5
I guess I would have been fired if I were GM, too. I didn't want to punt on the season either and thought that if Paxton and Sale stayed healthy they'd have a shot, but of course Sale got hurt and struggled again when coming back while Paxton hit the wall and Bello hasn't been as sharp as he had been.
I was more annoyed because Bloom didnt grab a capable back end starter who could put an end to these nonsense bullpen games and didnt pick up defense for the bench.
In retrospect I was very wrong. I wouldn't have dealt Turner for Cabrera because of his control issues, but that's where scouting plays as big a role if not bigger than the stat guys. The question becomes can the Red Sox fix Cabrera's control because if they could that would have been a great deal. The numbers say no, but what would their scouts think?
Either way Bloom failed to pick a direction and upset those who wanted to go for it and those who wanted to punt for the future.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 12:38:08 GMT -5
This is a really weird take to me. Kimbrel, Price, Sale, JDM, Eovaldi -- he was pretty aggressive in acquiring the blue chips who made the difference. Add in role players like Pearce, Two-bags, Brasier, Nunez, all of whom contributed, especially in the playoffs, and I don't get the argument that DD essentially backed into the greatest team in franchise history. He certainly inherited several great young players but it's not like he just sat back and watched them mature into that historic team.
The trouble with DD came afterwards, in the Thank You contracts he gave out to Sale and Eovaldi (with Price's aggressive deal already on the books), essentially blocking the chance to keep Betts -- and, of course, ownership was complicit in this. There are "player's managers" and the other kind; DD is (and always has been) a star's GM, which has its pros and cons. But you can't deny his record. For all his warts, the list of GMs to take four different franchises to the WS starts and ends with him, with a ring for each hand. Maybe he just backed into all that and just inherited four great teams from four great predecessors. Ultimately, it's a results-based business and those are some pretty consistent results. Bottom line, in the context of his overall body of work I really don't get how building his 2018 Red Sox achievement, starting from around this time in 2015, came down to simply not doing aggressively stupid things.
I'm sorry but if you're going to give him credit for Eduardo Nunez I'm going to have to block you. I mean we're trying to have a society here. j/k. but for real though nunez was the worst. and they gave up two eventual major leaguers for him!
I cant believe I am actually defending Nunez but allow for some nuance. Check his OPS+ in 2017 when dombrowski acquired him and you'll see that Nunez was actually a sparkplug when the Sox got him and he actually showed surprising power. As it was they won the division race by 2 games. Nunez helped them. Then he got hurt at the end of the season toward playoff time and was never the same player again. What you remember is the diminished player he was in 2018 and by 2019 he was total toast. He was also playing out of position-which gives DD something in common with Bloom, lol, besides their shared status of Ex-Red Sox PoBO. I am not going to mourn the loss of Shaun Andetson who amounted to virtually nothing on the ML level. Santos is having a good year in middle relief this year but I certainly wouldnt call that an awful trade by any stretch. I'll remember Nunez positively for his 2017 contributions that helped them finish ahead of NY and for the PH 3 run HR in Game 1 that settled my nerves. May Gregory Santos accomplish as much because Shaun Anderson won't and if you trade Shaun Anderson you could always make more Shaun Anderson types. I'd say the Sox got more out of the deal than the Giants did as Santos is having his nice season with the ChiSox instead.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 15, 2023 12:18:34 GMT -5
Eovaldi’s extension was, in fact, a winner. Not going to get into the whole thing here but, I'll just say that I don't think this is an established fact at all (at the very least by WAR value that contract is in the red). Eovaldi was bad and injured in 2019, not surprising given his usage in the 2018 postseason. But if the Sox had a better pitcher on the 2020 - 2022 timeframes, please identify him. The most important game of the Chaim Bloom era occurred in a do or die game against the loathsome Yankees and their 36 million/year pitcher. If you think the Sox would have been better off with somebody else that day, then that's your prerogative, but I think WAR/$ fails to adequately measure what Eovaldi meant to the Sox from 2020 - 2022. Maybe he would have pitched better in 2019 if he told Cora to stop jerking him back and forth during the postseason or perhaps told Cora he was done after the 13th inning in Game 3, but he didnt and I dont think it's a big leap to think that didnt impact his 2019 season, again things that WAR doesnt adequately measure or consider.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 14, 2023 22:02:10 GMT -5
Seems to me that there are some parallels to the situation that the new BoPO will walk into similar to what Dombrowski walked into.
Dombrowski came into a situation with an exciting young core and I think whoever takes this job has some interesting young talent around and on the way. Teel behind the plate, an infield of Casas/Yorke/Mayer/Devers (don't ask me where Story fits in because I don't know) and an outfield of perhaps Duran/Rafaela/Anthony.
But like Dombrowski the future pitching is lacking. Dombrowski supplied Porcello for the Sox when he was with Detroit (he got Cespedes in the deal). And whoever gets the Sox has Bello.
But Dombrowski had to spend a lot of money in free agency and make a major trade using prime prospects to land necessary top of the rotation starters.
Whoever gets the Sox will have to find a way to land two front line/top of the rotation starters.
In a post season series you need 3 strong/above average starters. The Sox when they were at their best this year had Bello pitching well, Sale being his old dominant self for half a dozen starts and Paxton pitching like his old self, but predictably (I fell into the same trap Bloom did) Sale got hurt yet again and Paxton ran out of gas. The Sox will need to land two prime pitchers to go with Bello. The new BoPO will have to make it happen. Bloom didn't supply those pitchers anymore than Cherington did for Dombrowski and without those pitchers you don't win anything.
I will say the core Dombrowski inherited included a likely HOFer, a guy likely to slug 400 HRs, and another guy who could get 2500 hits and 300 HRs in his career. Don't know that this BoPO will have quite that, plus this guy will have to wait a bit longer than Dombrowski did for that young core to come in and mature as Dombrowski's core that he inherited was further along in their maturity.
Interesting parallels.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 14, 2023 21:41:13 GMT -5
It seems obvious to me that ownership didn't trust Bloom to make big decisions in the offseason.
A lot of talk coming out about Bloom being indecisive, somebody that agents and other GMs didn't really care to deal with.
I think a lot of people don't want to believe this, but it rings true to me.
I don't consider this a PR move. I think ownership finally realizes that the Sox have become irrelevant in the Boston sportsmarket. It's true. Other than diehards like ourselves the Sox aren't really that thought of otherwise anymore. The ballpark is understandably empty to a much larger degree than before. Not hard to fathom when the team is out of it by August yet again.
Bloom did some good things for the organization. He obviously looked after the farm system. It got better under his watch although I'd say if you finish toward the middle or bottom it's easier to draft.
I do find the comparisons between Dombrowski and Bloom to be kind of bewildering when comparing their resumes. One of them has a history of 5 pennants, 2 World Championships, experience laying a foundation for the future (the trades following 1997 that lead to a 2003 Marlins championship), building a sustained winner (see the Tigers from 2006 - 2014), taking a team with a crappy farm system and bad on field results (the 119 loss 2003 Tigers) and turning them into a pennant winner in 3 years versus Bloom's modest resume, and I find that the only thing they really both have in common is that both are now former Red Sox PoBO.
The Sox had a hangover year in 2019 based on pitching issues that came from the post-season useage the year before which I don't think anybody regrets given the results. Yes, the farm system suffered from bad Cherington drafts and international penalties. It didn't suffer from losing Manny Margot or the Logan Allens and Shaun Andersons or Mauricio Dubons and Santiago Espinals of the world.
Dombrowski made a bad decision extending Sale too soon (full disclosure I didn't have an issue with it as I figured he'd be good by 2021 but didn't count on him being this brittle - so I was wrong), but I don't think it should have precluded the Sox from finding a way to offer Mookie top $ instead of hoping he signs for a hometown discount.
But that is squarely on ownership who is even more to blame than Bloom or Dombrowski for the mess they've been in. They decided they no longer wanted to be top spenders even though going the extra mile to sign JD Martinez in 2018 was a difference maker. The Red Sox should not be toward the middle of the pack in spending. So that's on them.
But Bloom despite not having a farm system for support, still had an excellent core as Devers, Bogaerts, and Vazquez emerged as good players, and Eovaldi did become a staff leader, and that core went a long way in helping the Sox win during 2021 when Bloom did do a good job supplementing that core.
I think between that core whether he chose to cash it in or ride it to the end (he did the latter) and the money available to Bloom I think the Sox should have been better than a .500 team over the past four years.
Bloom did some good things. He did some things I really don't understand, but either way I wish him luck in the future.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 14, 2023 16:01:11 GMT -5
Not to single you out specifically, but if you don't mind me asking a question - what's with the Bloom-specific fandom? I like watching the Boston Red Sox play baseball and my GM-specific fandom is more dependent on how well they make the pastime of watching the Red Sox play baseball better or worse. Despite appearances, I really don't give a crap about DD in and of himself. I just like that he made watching the Red Sox better. I'm really not any more or less of a Phillies fan because he's there now. Why/how does a guy who has generally had a bad run of mlb success draw so much individual loyalty? not to derail the thread or anything but many here would disagree that DD did not contribute to making the Red Sox worse to watch and that Bloom did not make the Red Sox better to watch I enjoyed 2016, 2017, and 2021 and loved, loved, loved 2018. The rest of the seasons between 2016 - 2023 were a drag. I think Dombrowski's tenure was far more enjoyable than Bloom's. I dont think Dombrowski destroyed thecSox anywhere near as badly as others here say he did. I think its ridiculously overblown. I dont want to rehash another DD vs Bloom Conversation yet again but frankly I enjoyed the DD era a lot more than this era of mediocrity. You can say that DD is the reason they're mediocre now but I disagree with that, but am not desiring to get into that at this time.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 14, 2023 11:54:30 GMT -5
I dont' see this as anything other than a PR move. Realistically they are promoting Brian O'Halloran or they are bringing in a new guy with the same philosophy as Chaim Bloom. Nightengale already reported they had strong interest in bringing in Stearns before he went to the Mets. I'm happy they likely won't be changing the organizational philosophy they built the past four years, but its unfortunate that ownership is using Bloom as a scapegoat. I really don't see anything he's done egregiously wrong to the point of being fired, especially this season. On a funny note, was watching a youtube video posted by the Dodgers documenting Mookie's return, and they video'd the interaction between Mookie and Chaim that we saw pictures of. The first thing Mookie said was: "Nice to finally meet you." Pretty telling that Chaim was hired with the objective to trade Mookie rather than even attempt to sign him. Yup, sign Mookie to a hometown discount and if he refuses trade him and defend it. Those were Bloom's first set of marching orders. No wonder he wasn't destined to succeed in Boston.
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Sept 14, 2023 11:40:30 GMT -5
I guess carrabis is pretty well connected. I'll make sure to listen when he speaks.
I wonder if this was done now so that it would preserve Cora from being fired by Bloom.
Too bad it ended this way, but the results are the results.
I would have given him 1 more year but I understand why they didnt give him the year.
I like Bloom's vision but I didnt always care for the judgment or execution.
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