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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 28, 2013 13:11:48 GMT -5
BTW it took me 7 years to figure out how to do the double quote post. Not sure if I did it the easiest way, but it worked so pat on the back to me.
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Post by ray9360 on Oct 29, 2013 8:39:53 GMT -5
Again my pitching rotation is Lester Webster Lackey Peavy and Buckholz and if u want to argue with me about it then go ahead but i am sticking to this
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 29, 2013 8:47:36 GMT -5
I traded Lester for Wil Myers last offseason so I'll recuse myself here. Still trying to draw conclusions about the power arms other teams have and the low octane arms of the Sox. Is it just that there are more than one way to pitch and I should forget about Verlander Scherzer Rodney wainwright wacha Martinez and rosenthal s of the world? Lets hope Webster can harness his stuff and Rubby can play a pen role.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 29, 2013 11:14:59 GMT -5
The more I think about it the better I feel about next year's rotation.
Lester-Buchholz-Lackey-Peavy-Doubront is solid and we should have a great offense to compliment it.
Dempster in the pen to start jn case we get some injuries, plus Koji and some good young arms.
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Post by raftsox on Oct 29, 2013 11:42:05 GMT -5
The more I think about it the better I feel about next year's rotation. Lester-Buchholz-Lackey-Peavy-Doubront is solid and we should have a great offense to compliment it. The more I think about it, the more I doubt Buchholz makes more than 20 starts. He's our version of Rich Harden.
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Post by rjp313jr on Oct 29, 2013 12:54:09 GMT -5
Again my pitching rotation is Lester Webster Lackey Peavy and Buckholz and if u want to argue with me about it then go ahead but i am sticking to this I won't argue with you here. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the rotation at some point next year. I've already stated why I can't imagine Webster making the rotation out of spring training, baring injuries, but stranger things have happened. I just would be surprised if the Sox went through the offseason thinking Webster was ready for prime time from Day 1 after what he showed this year. Kind of is relevant here but how would you guys feel about trading a good prospect like Webster for someone like Trumbo. Angels are shopping him for a young arm. Obviously that would keep Doubront in the 5th spot. When I heard the news that they were making Trumbo available I was initially interested. Then when you really look into Trumbo it's a lot less enticing. He doesn't really fit the bill as far as what I think the Sox want in a hitter. He's a high K rate, but without the AB quality that someone like Napoli can give you. He's actually a lot like Middlebrooks so I'd question trading a good young arm for him. Like someone else mention, not a young cost controlled hitter per se, just him.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 29, 2013 14:12:43 GMT -5
The more I think about it the better I feel about next year's rotation. Lester-Buchholz-Lackey-Peavy-Doubront is solid and we should have a great offense to compliment it. The more I think about it, the more I doubt Buchholz makes more than 20 starts. He's our version of Rich Harden. Buchholz' injuries are very minor to what Harden had IIRC.
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Post by xxdamgoodxx on Oct 30, 2013 5:49:37 GMT -5
Again my pitching rotation is Lester Webster Lackey Peavy and Buckholz and if u want to argue with me about it then go ahead but i am sticking to this Why would you kick Doubront out over Peavy? Doubront was a better pitcher last year and he is going to be one of the future arms in your rotation. Barring a trade, my apologies if you were implying that Doubront gets traded over the winter, your best rotation is Lester, Buchholtz, Lackey, Doubront, Peavy. I would love to get Webster involved because he and Ranaudo have been ready for a while, but there isn't really a spot for him.
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 30, 2013 7:14:55 GMT -5
Doubront impressed me in the Series with his better control. It appeared to me that he had altered his delivery a bit making it more compact. If so and if that is the result, why wouldn't he be in the rotation?
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Post by raftsox on Oct 30, 2013 8:10:51 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I doubt Buchholz makes more than 20 starts. He's our version of Rich Harden. Buchholz' injuries are very minor to what Harden had IIRC. True, the point isn't that Buchholz = Harden, but rather that Buchholz is often injured for a part of every season. And, when healthy, like Harden (or Josh Johnson or any number of similar pitchers), he's a front-line starter.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 30, 2013 9:08:21 GMT -5
I expect a very solid season out of Doubront in 2014, especially if he decides to come to spring training in shape this time.
I typically hate cliches, but the one about these things typically working themselves out seems to always come true. The Sox will legitimately have six capable starters for 2014 (I'm being liberal with the use of the word "capable" in Dempster's case). Chances are injuries will happen, and it's never a bad thing to have options for when they do.
And when you factor in Workman, Ranaudo, Rubby (convert to power reliever?), Webster and Barnes, you have to think at least one of those guys emerges as a major league-ready starter. (For the guys who don't work out as a starter ... the thought of having arms like Britton and Rubby coming out of the pen is also very exciting.)
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 30, 2013 9:11:11 GMT -5
Also, here's an interesting one I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on: converting Tazawa back to a starter.
I'd be hesitant after the Bard debacle, but I would think he'd have more of a chance to succeed since he has 3 pitches and already relies more on command than stuff.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 30, 2013 9:14:41 GMT -5
Also, here's an interesting one I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on: converting Tazawa back to a starter. I'd be hesitant after the Bard debacle, but I would think he'd have more of a chance to succeed since he has 3 pitches and already relies more on command than stuff. And he'll have to rely on command even more when his stuff plays down over longer outings. No thanks on that. His stuff fluctuates enough over the course of the season when he's throwing 70 innings.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 30, 2013 9:17:57 GMT -5
Also, here's an interesting one I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on: converting Tazawa back to a starter. I'd be hesitant after the Bard debacle, but I would think he'd have more of a chance to succeed since he has 3 pitches and already relies more on command than stuff. And he'll have to rely on command even more when his stuff plays down over longer outings. No thanks on that. His stuff fluctuates enough over the course of the season when he's throwing 70 innings. I agree. Just thought it was an interesting hypothetical to throw out there to the board.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 30, 2013 9:38:08 GMT -5
And he'll have to rely on command even more when his stuff plays down over longer outings. No thanks on that. His stuff fluctuates enough over the course of the season when he's throwing 70 innings. I agree. Just thought it was an interesting hypothetical to throw out there to the board. It's interesting and certainly a fair thing to wonder about, as it was also something we talked about last offseason. I think we have more data now that shows it's not a good idea because it's doubtful he'd hold up.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 30, 2013 11:54:32 GMT -5
Also, here's an interesting one I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts on: converting Tazawa back to a starter. I'd be hesitant after the Bard debacle, but I would think he'd have more of a chance to succeed since he has 3 pitches and already relies more on command than stuff. And he'll have to rely on command even more when his stuff plays down over longer outings. No thanks on that. His stuff fluctuates enough over the course of the season when he's throwing 70 innings. Only hope next year the stuff doesn't degrade more than right after he cam back from TJ late in 2012. remember he was sitting consistently 95-7, where he now just barely touches 95 maybe 1-2 times per game and have seen him hit 96 more than a handful of times all season, not 97 a single time and his cutter was vicious last season, not that it's bad this year, but when he 1st came back, it was nearly non hittable. Maybe it is more innings, more frequent appearances, but he doesn't look like the same guy many times. Uehara had that explanation of too hard on the FB once and mind focusing, though not sure that is it.
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Post by jdb on Oct 30, 2013 12:11:37 GMT -5
So Ken Rosenthall was on Dennis and Callahan saying Lester could expect 146-210 million on his next contract. I was thinking a 5 yr 100 million extension would be in the ballpark.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 30, 2013 13:44:55 GMT -5
Maybe I'm misreading the market, and I know it only takes one team, but Jon Lester isn't getting $210 million. King Felix got $135.5 mil, Justin Verlander got $180 mil. I could see him maybe getting $150-160 million on the open market, but my gut tells me the Sox sign him to an extension this offseason for less than that.
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wcp3
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Post by wcp3 on Oct 30, 2013 14:12:28 GMT -5
You're not misreading anything.
Never trust a man who wears a bow tie.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 30, 2013 14:58:38 GMT -5
Maybe I'm misreading the market, and I know it only takes one team, but Jon Lester isn't getting $210 million. King Felix got $135.5 mil, Justin Verlander got $180 mil. I could see him maybe getting $150-160 million on the open market, but my gut tells me the Sox sign him to an extension this offseason for less than that. I am afraid to see the topic that eventually breaks here regarding the Lester proposed extension coming up eventually. It's going to be all over the place James. We have seen Epstein give Beckett 4/68 coming off of a terrible season, though the team says it is now spending money differently under Cherrington. Made one myself way back and am sticking to it, but really wouldn't be shocked if he hit the market and it ended up as high as 150m to some team and his numbers were identical to his 2013 ones.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Oct 30, 2013 15:42:52 GMT -5
So Ken Rosenthall was on Dennis and Callahan saying Lester could expect 146-210 million on his next contract. I was thinking a 5 yr 100 million extension would be in the ballpark. If Lester were to go next year and pitch 35 times the way he has his last two games, he'd get that. But he won't, so he won't.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 30, 2013 16:05:46 GMT -5
So Ken Rosenthall was on Dennis and Callahan saying Lester could expect 146-210 million on his next contract. I was thinking a 5 yr 100 million extension would be in the ballpark. If Lester were to go next year and pitch 35 times the way he has his last two games, he'd get that. But he won't, so he won't. I'll go a step further. If Lester goes 35-0 with a 0.59 ERA in 268 1/3 innings, striking out 263 and walking 18, he'll deserve that $210 million.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 30, 2013 16:38:50 GMT -5
You're not misreading anything. Never trust a man who wears a bow tie. Never trust someone who suggested the Red Sox should trade Bogaerts.
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Post by geezergeek on Oct 30, 2013 16:53:46 GMT -5
If the right circumstances present themselves such as a good year in AA and or AAA and injuries to lefties such as Doubront and Lester, I would not be shocked to see Owens starting by August.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Oct 30, 2013 16:58:32 GMT -5
You're not misreading anything. Never trust a man who wears a bow tie. Never trust someone who suggested the Red Sox should trade Bogaerts. Not trying to get into this or anything by pointing fingers, stopping it.. Anything like that. Just remember that An awful lot of us fans were up in arms when Ramirez went to the Fish in the Beckett deal, then it almost assuredly brought the WS trophy to Boston with Lowell and Beckett in the short term. Not calling for Boagerts in any way, shape or form to be moved myself either. Can *only* see the most remote possibility of him being moved for someone coming back of equal impact and controllable. Anything else and he's here for years to come.
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