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Battle for top 10 (protected) draft picks
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 26, 2013 14:52:39 GMT -5
If the season ended right now:
1. HOU ---- (running away with the top pick) 2. MIA -6.0 3. CWS -11.0 (won eight of last ten) 4. CHC -11.5 5. MIL -13.5 6. MIN -14.0 7. TOR -14.0 (lost eight of last ten) 8. SFO -14.5 9. LAA -15.0 10. NYM -15.5 11. TOR (compensation pick) 12. SDO -15.5 13. PHI -15.5 14. SEA -16.0 15. COL -16.5
25. BOS
5.5 games separate #3 from #15. (tiebreaker order among teams from 3-15 (excluding #11) is as follows: CHC, COL, MIN, TOR, NYM, SEA, SDO, PHI, MIL, CWS, LAA, SFO)
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Post by Guidas on Aug 26, 2013 16:37:53 GMT -5
SFO and NYM are two teams that have been theorized potential destinations for Ellsbury. One hopes if they finish in the top 10 they aren't winning bidders for him or Drew.
One hopes even more that MLB will agree to let teams trade picks from rounds 1-4 in the next CBA.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 26, 2013 16:48:23 GMT -5
SFO and NYM are two teams that have been theorized potential destinations for Ellsbury. One hopes if they finish in the top 10 they aren't winning bidders for him or Drew. One hopes even more that MLB will agree to let teams trade picks from rounds 1-4 in the next CBA. Why? (On the first part)
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Post by Guidas on Aug 26, 2013 17:38:52 GMT -5
Doesn't that drop theSox comp down to top of first round if they make a qualifying offer?
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Post by James Dunne on Aug 26, 2013 18:01:59 GMT -5
Comp picks are at the end of the first round regardless of whether the signing team needs to surrender a pick or not.
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Post by kman22 on Aug 26, 2013 18:42:21 GMT -5
The top 10 picks are protected. If the team that signs Ellsbury is 11 or lower, there first round pick is removed from the draft. In that case, the Red Sox comp pick moves up a slot and the Red Sox benefit. If a team with a top 10 pick signs Ellsbury, their second round pick is removed from the draft, and the Red Sox comp pick is a slot lower than the previous scenario. So the hope is that the team that signs Ellsbury picks lower than tenth overall.
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Post by jmei on Aug 26, 2013 18:48:53 GMT -5
The top 10 picks are protected. If the team that signs Ellsbury is 11 or lower, there first round pick is removed from the draft. In that case, the Red Sox comp pick moves up a slot and the Red Sox benefit. If a team with a top 10 pick signs Ellsbury, their second round pick is removed from the draft, and the Red Sox comp pick is a slot lower than the previous scenario. So the hope is that the team that signs Ellsbury picks lower than tenth overall. Good point. That said, I'm not sure one spot in the draft is worth our collective psychic rooting mojo.
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Post by chavopepe2 on Aug 26, 2013 18:49:11 GMT -5
Meh.... It's one spot.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 26, 2013 20:30:33 GMT -5
Without Harvey for the rest of this year and all of next year, the Mets (a) will likely stink their way to a top 5 pick this year and (b) may decide not to load up on free agents for another year until Harvey returns. Keep in mind that the franchise is in rough shape financially, so any excuse not to spend.
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Post by kman22 on Aug 27, 2013 6:54:32 GMT -5
The top 10 picks are protected. If the team that signs Ellsbury is 11 or lower, there first round pick is removed from the draft. In that case, the Red Sox comp pick moves up a slot and the Red Sox benefit. If a team with a top 10 pick signs Ellsbury, their second round pick is removed from the draft, and the Red Sox comp pick is a slot lower than the previous scenario. So the hope is that the team that signs Ellsbury picks lower than tenth overall. Good point. That said, I'm not sure one spot in the draft is worth our collective psychic rooting mojo. For the most part, I agree. It would be interesting if the Red Sox made multiple QO's (let's say three as an example), and all three declined and signed with other teams that draft between 11 and the end of the first round. Better yet, let's say they all sign with teams between #11 and the Red Sox top pick (#25 as of now?). Now the Red Sox would have 3 comp picks and their own first. Their first round pick would go from 25 up to 22, with each of their comp picks moving up 3 slots as well. Now you have 4 picks in the top 45 (conservatively) that have improved by 3 slots. This doesn't even account for qualified players from other teams. I guess what I'm saying is that in the case of one player, it might be a slight difference. 3 slots for each of 4 top 45 picks could have a much more noticeable difference. The ideal situation, at least in my mind, would be that all the qualified players sign with teams between 11 and the Red Sox, whether they are leaving the Sox or another team.
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Post by ramireja on Aug 27, 2013 7:19:29 GMT -5
Ok, but a discussion of moving up or down by a single draft slot is a discussion that is far broader than one player. Every single player offered a QO will impact our draft position depending on whether or not the signing team is top 10 protected or not. Trying to project where Ellsbury signs with the hope that an 11-30 team signs him is kind of silly.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Aug 29, 2013 11:08:54 GMT -5
I've been tracking the impact of the imbalanced schedule and AL superiority on the pennant race for some years, by correctly adjusting for strength of schedule. For the first time ever, it looks like the N (8 or 10) playoff teams will actually comprise the N best teams in baseball. But as of this date, the imbalanced schedule is having a huge impact on who's getting a protected pick, something I admit to not having paid attention to previously.
Actual bottom 14, with rank by straight Win% in parens:
1. Hou (1) 2. Fla (2) 3. ChW (4) 4. ChC (3) 5. NYM (12) 6. SD (11) 7. SF (7) 8. Mil (6) 9. Min (5) 10. Sea (8) 11. Phi (13) 12. Col (14) 13. LAA (10) 14. Tor (9)
Which is to say, the Mets and Padres have easily been among the ten worst clubs in baseball, but they rank 12th and 11th in raw win %, thanks to SOS of -2.2 and -1.7 wins, respectively. In contrast, the Angels and Blue Jays would get protected picks even though they're not close to being in the bottom 10, thanks to SOS of -0.2 and 3.0.
And thus, the competitive imbalance between the leagues (currently projected to be 2.5 wins, on average, a figure half of what it was a few years ago) is perpetuated.
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badfishnbc
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Doing you all a favor and leaving through the gate in right field since 2012.
Posts: 417
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Post by badfishnbc on Aug 29, 2013 11:37:00 GMT -5
I think an equally relevant discussion point would be potential destinations for Saltalamacchia. I think it's very reasonable that we'll make him a qualifying offer, but stand put if the asking price gets too high.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 31, 2013 7:34:45 GMT -5
If the season ended right now:
1. HOU ---- (running away with the top pick) 2. MIA -5.5 (running away with the 2nd pick) 3. CHC -12.0 4. CWS -12.5 (out of the top three) 5. MIN -14.5 6. MIL -15.0 7. SDO -16.0 8. SFO -16.0 9. TOR -16.5 10. SEA -17.0 11. TOR (compensation pick) 12. NYM -17.5 13. PHI -17.5 14. LAA -17.5 15. COL -19.0
29. BOS
5.5 games separate #3 from #14. (tiebreaker order among teams from 3-15 (excluding #11) is as follows: CHC, COL, MIN, TOR, NYM, SEA, SDO, PHI, MIL, CWS, LAA, SFO)
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 4, 2013 22:59:15 GMT -5
If the season ended right now:
1. HOU ---- (running away with the top pick) 2. MIA -6.5 (running away with the 2nd pick) 3. CWS -10.5 (back in the top three, lost six in a row) 4. CHC -13.0 5. MIL -14.0 6. MIN -15.5 7. SDO -16.0 8. SFO -16.0 9. PHI -16.5 10. SEA -17.0 11. TOR (compensation pick) 12. TOR -17.5 13. NYM -17.5 14. COL -18.5 (game still in progress) 15. LAA -19.0 (game still in progress)
28. BOS
6 games separate #4 from #15. (tiebreaker order among teams from 3-15 (excluding #11) is as follows: CHC, COL, MIN, TOR, NYM, SEA, SDO, PHI, MIL, CWS, LAA, SFO)
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 14, 2013 8:07:16 GMT -5
If the season ended right now:
1. HOU ---- 2. MIA -3.5 3. CWS -7.0 4. CHC -12.0 5. MIN -12.5 6. MIL -13.5 7. SEA -14.0 8. NYM -14.5 9. SFO -15.5 10. TOR -16.0 11. TOR (compensation pick) 12. COL -16.5 13. SDO -16.5 14. PHI -17.0 15. LAA -19.0
30. BOS
5 games separate #4 from #14. (tiebreaker order among teams from 3-15 (excluding #11) is as follows: CHC, COL, MIN, TOR, NYM, SEA, SDO, PHI, MIL, CWS, LAA, SFO)
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ericmvan
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Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 14, 2013 9:03:04 GMT -5
Divisional imbalance screws up the draft order year after year, in a way that ultimately contributes to its perpetuation.
Current order, with, when different, what it would be if teams had played a balanced schedule.
1. Hou 2. Mia 3. ChW 4. ChC 5. Min (6) 6. Mil (8) 7. Sea 8. NYM (5) 9. SF (11) 10. Tor (13) 11. SD (10) 12. Col (9) 13. Phi (12) 14. LAA 15. Ari 16. KC (17) 17. Bal (18) 18. Was (16) 19. NYY (20) 20. Cle (19) 21. TB (22) 22. Tex (21) 23. Cin 24. Pit (26) 25. Det (29) 26. LAD (24) 27. Oak 28. StL 29. Atl (25) 30. Bos
There has to be a simple formula weighting W/L record and divisional W/L record that would approximate the detailed results. I'll try to cook that up at the end of the season (using 10 seasons worth of data).
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Post by amfox1 on Sept 18, 2013 7:47:45 GMT -5
If the season ended right now: 1. HOU ---- (100 losses) 2. MIA -4.0 3. CWS -9.0 4. CHC -12.0 5. MIN -12.5 6. SEA -14.0 7. NYM -16.5 8. MIL -16.5
9. COL -17.5 10. TOR -18.5 11. TOR (compensation pick)12. SFO -19.0 13. SDO -19.5 14. PHI -20.0 15. LAA -22.0 30. BOS(tiebreaker order among teams from 3-15 (excluding #11) is as follows: CHC, COL, MIN, TOR, NYM, SEA, SDO, PHI, MIL, CWS, LAA, SFO)FYI, the draft will begin on June 5. sbb.scout.com/2/1318151.html1. Carlos Rodon, LHP, North Carolina State 2. Jeff Hoffman, RHP, East Carolina 3. Tyler Kolek, RHP, Shepherd HS (TX), uncommitted 4. Trea Turner, SS, North Carolina State 5. Alex Jackson, C/RF, Rancho Bernardo HS (CA), Oregon commit 6. Derek Fisher, LF, Virginia 7. Braxton Davidson, 1B, T.C. Roberson HS (NC), North Carolina commit 8. Michael Gettys, CF/RHP, Gainesville HS (GA), Georgia commit 9. Grant Holmes, RHP, Conway HS (SC), Florida commit 10. Brandon Finnegan, LHP, TCU 11. Jacob Gatewood, SS, Clovis HS (CA), USC commit 12. Luis Ortiz, RHP, Sanger HS (CA), uncommitted 13. Sean Newcomb, LHP, Hartford 14. Kyle Schwarber, C/1B, Indiana 15. Ti'quan Forbes, SS, Columbia HS (MS), Ole Miss commit 16. Max Pentecost, C, Kennessaw State 17. Chris Ellis, RHP, Ole Miss 18. Derek Hill, CF, Elk Grove HS (CA), uncommitted 19. Cobi Johnson, RHP, Mitchell HS (FL), Florida State commit 20. Nick Gordon, SS/RHP, Olympia HS (FL), Florida State commit 21. Tyler Beede, RHP, Vanderbilt 22. Luke Weaver, RHP, Florida State 23. Touki Toussaint, RHP, Coral Springs Christian HS (FL), uncommitted 24. Kodi Medeiros, LHP, Waiakea HS (HI), uncommitted 25. Sean Reid-Foley, RHP, Sandalwood HS (FL), Florida State commit26. Michael Cederoth, RHP, San Diego State 27. Kyle Freeland, LHP, Evansville 28. Alex Verdugo, RF/LHP, Sahuaro HS (AZ), Arizona State commit 29. Dylan Cease, RHP, Milton HS (GA), uncommitted 30. Justus Sheffield, LHP, Tullahoma HS (TN), Vanderbilt commit
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Post by ramireja on Sept 18, 2013 8:36:07 GMT -5
To think that this was the most important thread one year ago (and perhaps following the governor's cup). Now we will have the lowest pick in the first round....tear. Here's to hoping we get a couple of compensation picks.
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Post by rjp313jr on Sept 18, 2013 8:43:42 GMT -5
Divisional imbalance screws up the draft order year after year, in a way that ultimately contributes to its perpetuation. Current order, with, when different, what it would be if teams had played a balanced schedule. 1. Hou 2. Mia 3. ChW 4. ChC 5. Min (6) 6. Mil (8) 7. Sea 8. NYM (5) 9. SF (11) 10. Tor (13) 11. SD (10) 12. Col (9) 13. Phi (12) 14. LAA 15. Ari 16. KC (17) 17. Bal (18) 18. Was (16) 19. NYY (20) 20. Cle (19) 21. TB (22) 22. Tex (21) 23. Cin 24. Pit (26) 25. Det (29) 26. LAD (24) 27. Oak 28. StL 29. Atl (25) 30. Bos There has to be a simple formula weighting W/L record and divisional W/L record that would approximate the detailed results. I'll try to cook that up at the end of the season (using 10 seasons worth of data). I'm no statistician, but these numbers look pretty good to me. Not sure you're making you're argument. Look how close they are to falling in order. The Mets and twins on this date were within 2 games of each other. The Royals, Os and Nationals all have the exact same record so the variance you show is negligible. Didn't look at every variance, but after a scan they're close enough that I don't see how the schedule has any significant impact on the draft. Furthermore, if you actually dug into the impact likelihood of these positions relative to each other the impact positive or negative would be nonexistent.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 18, 2013 11:50:20 GMT -5
Isn't divisional imbalance a good reason to keep the draft order by record? For example, I'm on board thinking Blue Jays are better than the Rockies but get beat up by superior competition. But if they lose more games because of it, doesn't that mean the higher draft pick is necessary in order to compete with their unbalanced schedule? I don't think it's important to go into the balance of *why* a team may have lost more games than another - every method is going to be flawed on some level. Straight won-loss record is the least unfair way to determine draft order.
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ericmvan
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Post by ericmvan on Sept 18, 2013 15:51:14 GMT -5
Isn't divisional imbalance a good reason to keep the draft order by record? For example, I'm on board thinking Blue Jays are better than the Rockies but get beat up by superior competition. But if they lose more games because of it, doesn't that mean the higher draft pick is necessary in order to compete with their unbalanced schedule? I don't think it's important to go into the balance of *why* a team may have lost more games than another - every method is going to be flawed on some level. Straight won-loss record is the least unfair way to determine draft order. That's a very interesting counter-argument. The actual problem with divisional imbalance is in choosing and seeding playoff teams. Right now, TB, Cle, and Tex project to finish in a 3-way tie for the two wild cards, but the Ray's schedule will have been 1.6 games tougher than the Indians and 2.4 games tougher than Texas', so the Rangers should not be in that picture. The Braves project to edge the Cardinals for best record and home-field advantage in the NL, 96 wins to 95, but only because their schedule will have been 3.3 games easier. If you could fix those inequalities, you could draft in order of straight W/L record and, as you point out, it would be fair in terms of each club's need to compete within its own division. And the degree to which that contributes to divisional imbalance is of course very slight compared to the inherent imbalance caused by how smart the teams have been and the size of the markets they're in.
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Post by James Dunne on Sept 18, 2013 15:55:48 GMT -5
Agree 100%.
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Post by thegoodthebadthesox on Sept 19, 2013 1:13:17 GMT -5
sbb.scout.com/2/1318151.html1. Carlos Rodon, LHP, North Carolina State 2. Jeff Hoffman, RHP, East Carolina 3. Tyler Kolek, RHP, Shepherd HS (TX), uncommitted 4. Trea Turner, SS, North Carolina State 5. Alex Jackson, C/RF, Rancho Bernardo HS (CA), Oregon commit 6. Derek Fisher, LF, Virginia 7. Braxton Davidson, 1B, T.C. Roberson HS (NC), North Carolina commit 8. Michael Gettys, CF/RHP, Gainesville HS (GA), Georgia commit 9. Grant Holmes, RHP, Conway HS (SC), Florida commit 10. Brandon Finnegan, LHP, TCU 11. Jacob Gatewood, SS, Clovis HS (CA), USC commit 12. Luis Ortiz, RHP, Sanger HS (CA), uncommitted 13. Sean Newcomb, LHP, Hartford 14. Kyle Schwarber, C/1B, Indiana 15. Ti'quan Forbes, SS, Columbia HS (MS), Ole Miss commit 16. Max Pentecost, C, Kennessaw State 17. Chris Ellis, RHP, Ole Miss 18. Derek Hill, CF, Elk Grove HS (CA), uncommitted 19. Cobi Johnson, RHP, Mitchell HS (FL), Florida State commit 20. Nick Gordon, SS/RHP, Olympia HS (FL), Florida State commit 21. Tyler Beede, RHP, Vanderbilt 22. Luke Weaver, RHP, Florida State 23. Touki Toussaint, RHP, Coral Springs Christian HS (FL), uncommitted 24. Kodi Medeiros, LHP, Waiakea HS (HI), uncommitted 25. Sean Reid-Foley, RHP, Sandalwood HS (FL), Florida State commit26. Michael Cederoth, RHP, San Diego State 27. Kyle Freeland, LHP, Evansville 28. Alex Verdugo, RF/LHP, Sahuaro HS (AZ), Arizona State commit 29. Dylan Cease, RHP, Milton HS (GA), uncommitted 30. Justus Sheffield, LHP, Tullahoma HS (TN), Vanderbilt commit Would be interesting if we took Justus Sheffield.
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Post by okin15 on Sept 19, 2013 10:42:28 GMT -5
The actual problem with divisional imbalance is in choosing and seeding playoff teams. Right now, TB, Cle, and Tex project to finish in a 3-way tie for the two wild cards, but the Ray's schedule will have been 1.6 games tougher than the Indians and 2.4 games tougher than Texas', so the Rangers should not be in that picture. The Braves project to edge the Cardinals for best record and home-field advantage in the NL, 96 wins to 95, but only because their schedule will have been 3.3 games easier. If you could fix those inequalities, you could draft in order of straight W/L record and, as you point out, it would be fair in terms of each club's need to compete within its own division. And the degree to which that contributes to divisional imbalance is of course very slight compared to the inherent imbalance caused by how smart the teams have been and the size of the markets they're in. But like, life isn't fair... and luck... and stuff. The way the system works now is pretty sweet, with two wild cards. It's as good as any other system out there.
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