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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 14, 2017 15:06:45 GMT -5
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 16, 2017 7:19:08 GMT -5
Devers will be the Sox answer to third by the middle of August, if not sooner. His numbers are better than AB's were last year and it doesn't look like AAA is going to slow him down. Four for four, double, HR and 2 runs scored, nice 1st game. Too early or not he is forcing his way to the show, let the Devers era begin!!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 16, 2017 9:28:41 GMT -5
Why bother with Frazier?
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Post by giatree12 on Jul 16, 2017 9:40:15 GMT -5
DD gets anxiety if he doesn't trade at least one solid prospect every year
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Post by Guidas on Jul 16, 2017 10:51:48 GMT -5
I still can't fathom that they didn't bring him up while Pablo was on his rehab, just to give him a 21 day look-see. People always say "they know their guys better than anyone," but since the Travis Shaw trade I disagree. (of course I said that after the Reddick and Lowrie trades, too - but I've been wrong as much, if not more, than anyone here. (COUGH Garin Cecchini COUGH Cody Kukuk).
Still, it would've given them a real-time look at the guy under the bright lights during a pennant race. It would also give Devers a nice frame of reference if it was all too fast for him still.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 16, 2017 10:52:29 GMT -5
Devers will be the Sox answer to third by the middle of August, if not sooner. His numbers are better than AB's were last year and it doesn't look like AAA is going to slow him down. Four for four, double, HR and 2 runs scored, nice 1st game. Too early or not he is forcing his way to the show, let the Devers era begin!! Then why give up assets for Frazier or some other guy like him?
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Post by pedrofanforever45 on Jul 16, 2017 11:43:03 GMT -5
Devers will be the Sox answer to third by the middle of August, if not sooner. His numbers are better than AB's were last year and it doesn't look like AAA is going to slow him down. Four for four, double, HR and 2 runs scored, nice 1st game. Too early or not he is forcing his way to the show, let the Devers era begin!! Then why give up assets for Frazier or some other guy like him? Because he should be better then Marrero and he shouldn't cost that much to acquire.
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Post by doctorduck21 on Jul 16, 2017 12:13:51 GMT -5
Then why give up assets for Frazier or some other guy like him? Because he should be better then Marrero and he shouldn't cost that much to acquire. I agree with this. Frazier is a good player who shouldn't cost us much. And as much as I believe in Devers, there's no guarantee he hits at the major league level this year. He could pull a Moncada and struggle after being called up. I say get Frazier and call Devers up in September to get some at bats. If Devers struggles than we still have Frazier. If Frazier gets here and bombs, We have Devers as a back up plan.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 16, 2017 13:32:36 GMT -5
What are contract implications of calling up Devers now?
Wouldn't they gain a year of control if they kept him down until a few weeks into next season, a la Kris Bryant/Evan Longoria?
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Post by beasleyrockah on Jul 16, 2017 14:02:12 GMT -5
There's a real possibility that Devers and Frazier could be the two regular corner infielders in September. Moreland was great to start the year so perhaps everyone hasn't noticed he's been killing this team for a month now (rocking a .165/.240/.282 line since 6/15). Frazier isn't ideal at 1B, but even if you're sold on Devers being a contributor this year it's hard to believe Hanley can or will handle 1B defensively every day, and I'm not comfortable banking on Devers/Lin/Marrero/Holt PLUS Moreland/Travis at the other corner. No one wants to overpay for Frazier, but it's not as simple as Devers vs. Frazier, they could really use both players.
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Post by carmenfanzone on Jul 16, 2017 16:39:37 GMT -5
There's a real possibility that Devers and Frazier could be the two regular corner infielders in September. Moreland was great to start the year so perhaps everyone hasn't noticed he's been killing this team for a month now (rocking a .165/.240/.282 line since 6/15). Frazier isn't ideal at 1B, but even if you're sold on Devers being a contributor this year it's hard to believe Hanley can or will handle 1B defensively every day, and I'm not comfortable banking on Devers/Lin/Marrero/Holt PLUS Moreland/Travis at the other corner. No one wants to overpay for Frazier, but it's not as simple as Devers vs. Frazier, they could really use both players. Agree in part, but disagree in part. I agree that Moreland is no longer doing the job at the plate. Moreover, he is a career .250 hitter with an obp of under .320 so its not like the Red Sox can expect that he is going go back to hitting .280 or above like he did for the first couple of months. So I agree the Red Sox may need both a 1st and 3rd baseman. But I do not agree with trading for Frazier and putting him at 1st. Why trade for a .220 hitter AND then have him change positions? Why not just trade for a first baseman? I do not know who is available, but I would hope the Red Sox are checking. The trouble with that, of course, is that it assumes Devers, who has played only 2 games above AAA is ready. I still wish the Red Sox would have promoted him earlier so we would have more evidence that he can at least handle AAA pitching. If he is not ready, they may have to determine which is the greater need and fill that one as I do not think they have the players to fill both (or at least I am hoping they are not going to further deplete the farm system by trading for both a 1st and 3rd baseman (and probably a relief arm given the 2 recent injuries.
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jimoh
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Post by jimoh on Jul 16, 2017 18:09:26 GMT -5
The 6'3" Frazier has averaged about 20 games a year at 1b; his flexibility is attractive. For a decent 3b who's had experience at 1b, the switch is not a problem. And citing the batting average of a player when that is the worst part of his game is not a great argument, is it?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 17, 2017 0:54:14 GMT -5
What are contract implications of calling up Devers now? Wouldn't they gain a year of control if they kept him down until a few weeks into next season, a la Kris Bryant/Evan Longoria? Yes. Calling him up in September does not affect that part, therefore, a side benefit of Frazier could be an additional year of Devers. I'm pretty sure the Sox would factor that in. Financially, it's the same either way because if they called him up a few weeks into next season, he'd be a super-two which means he'd be arbitration eligible in the same year as if they call him up now. If they wait, they get just under 7 years control. If they call him up now, they get about 6 1/2 year's control. Not much difference now but the difference increases as time goes by.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jul 17, 2017 12:20:47 GMT -5
Devers will be the Sox answer to third by the middle of August, if not sooner. His numbers are better than AB's were last year and it doesn't look like AAA is going to slow him down. Four for four, double, HR and 2 runs scored, nice 1st game. Too early or not he is forcing his way to the show, let the Devers era begin!! Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again, not sure that Benintendi is the best comp given that he was nearly two full years older last year than Devers is this year. Better numbers at one level (and they're not overwhelmingly so, although I agree Devers' Portland line is indeed better) doesn't necessarily portend less of an adjustment upon promotion. There is also the defensive side of the spectrum to consider. Personally, I'd like to see Devers get at least a month in Pawtucket, even if they don't go get someone like Frazier. Otherwise, we'll see him on September 5.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 17, 2017 14:10:20 GMT -5
And, here's what the fans want...... PawSoxVerified account @pawsox 37m37 minutes ago More Rafael Devers is already being greeted by fans at McCoy before his home @pawsox debut tonight.
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brendan98
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 19, 2017 13:57:08 GMT -5
I get the reasoning behind wanting Devers to continue his development in the minors, but at this point it is obscenely obvious that he is so much more talented than any option the Red Sox have in the organization that in the very near future they should call him up and see how he handles MLB pitching. The Red Sox offense needs a significant upgrade, that’s why I could care less about not getting Todd Frazier as though he might hit an occasional HR, he is far too often a black hole in the lineup. To acquire a true impact bat at 3B, Dombrowski is going to have to overpay, and the blue chip prospects in the Sox farm system are starting to dwindle.
Devers is THE blue chip prospect, one of the best power hitting prospects in the game, and I think underrated as a pure hitter mostly because the power is what most scouts focus on. Devers has made a huge leap this year, he is no longer part production and part projection, his production is now matching what has been projected for him, yes he is young, but by all accounts he is showing many of the things that you want to see from a prospect before you call them up, the ability to make adjustments on the fly, a solid plan in his at-bats, and great work ethic to name a few. I think the Sox have said in the past that a players play will tell you when he is ready to be promoted, Devers sure seems like he is there, I don’t know if he needs 50 / 100 / 200 AB’s in AAA, maybe he doesn’t need any, but I do know that the Red Sox need a hitter like Devers batting in the middle of their lineup.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 19, 2017 14:30:26 GMT -5
I get the reasoning behind wanting Devers to continue his development in the minors, but at this point it is obscenely obvious that he is so much more talented than any option the Red Sox have in the organization that in the very near future they should call him up and see how he handles MLB pitching. The Red Sox offense needs a significant upgrade, that’s why I could care less about not getting Todd Frazier as though he might hit an occasional HR, he is far too often a black hole in the lineup. To acquire a true impact bat at 3B, Dombrowski is going to have to overpay, and the blue chip prospects in the Sox farm system are starting to dwindle. Devers is THE blue chip prospect, one of the best power hitting prospects in the game, and I think underrated as a pure hitter mostly because the power is what most scouts focus on. Devers has made a huge leap this year, he is no longer part production and part projection, his production is now matching what has been projected for him, yes he is young, but by all accounts he is showing many of the things that you want to see from a prospect before you call them up, the ability to make adjustments on the fly, a solid plan in his at-bats, and great work ethic to name a few. I think the Sox have said in the past that a players play will tell you when he is ready to be promoted, Devers sure seems like he is there, I don’t know if he needs 50 / 100 / 200 AB’s in AAA, maybe he doesn’t need any, but I do know that the Red Sox need a hitter like Devers batting in the middle of their lineup. Agreed, 100%
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brendan98
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Post by brendan98 on Jul 19, 2017 14:44:56 GMT -5
I also feel like being with the Red Sox could be better for Devers right now developmentally than being in AAA. In Boston Devers will have a bunch of guys around who can relate and have experienced exactly what he would be going through, Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts and Bradley have all been the rising star flying through the system in the not too distant past, and Hanley and Pedey have both experienced it as well although longer ago, having guys like that to mentor him will most likely be of great benefit to Devers, he isn’t going to find many guys in AAA that know what it’s like to be in his shoes.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 19, 2017 15:03:37 GMT -5
I also feel like being with the Red Sox could be better for Devers right now developmentally than being in AAA. In Boston Devers will have a bunch of guys around who can relate and have experienced exactly what he would be going through, Benintendi, Betts, Bogaerts and Bradley have all been the rising star flying through the system in the not too distant past, and Hanley and Pedey have both experienced it as well although longer ago, having guys like that to mentor him will most likely be of great benefit to Devers, he isn’t going to find many guys in AAA that know what it’s like to be in his shoes. I'm 90% certain the Sox feigned interest in Frazier to drive up the price and that DD plans to bring him up by or just after the deadline, barring a disastrous AAA event. That Devers hasn't missed a beat makes it seem inevitable. I really don't see Devers putting up an inferior line to Frazier's .210/.330/.450 or so triple slash. My guess is that Devers is essentially equivalent or maybe better, at what amounts to no cost. That frees the Sox to take on salary/years if they get a reliever, and therefore defray prospect cost. I've taken plenty of issue with DD's gestalt approach, but I think he's playing this perfectly. And to his credit, Sale (expectedly), Kimbrel (slightly less expectedly but still unsurprising), and Pomeranz to an extent have all been major contributors. Long-term concerns and Shaw trade notwithstanding, his plan is crystallizing.
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Post by jodyreidnichols on Jul 20, 2017 12:12:10 GMT -5
I still can't fathom that they didn't bring him up while Pablo was on his rehab, just to give him a 21 day look-see. People always say "they know their guys better than anyone," but since the Travis Shaw trade I disagree. (of course I said that after the Reddick and Lowrie trades, too - but I've been wrong as much, if not more, than anyone here. (COUGH Garin Cecchini COUGH Cody Kukuk). Still, it would've given them a real-time look at the guy under the bright lights during a pennant race. It would also give Devers a nice frame of reference if it was all too fast for him still. I had Cecchini as a poor man's Wade Boggs soooo....maybe Boggs on his death bed.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 22, 2017 0:53:00 GMT -5
I think the Redsox are on target with Devers. 3 errors in the last 5 games. Still extremely young. I don't think we see him until September. To me he is like a younger and much more mellow, left handed hitting Adrian Beltre who can't field yet. No way he carry's Beltre's glove ever but you gotta love that spray chart and easy power to all fields. It's a lot to ask this kid to be a stud even by September but I agree he needs to be given a September call up probably.
We sure could use some pop but wishing for it from this kid right now is incredibly optimistic. Let's cool the jets.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 22, 2017 1:10:57 GMT -5
Defense really, really matters. People need to absorb that. Bringing the guy up for the bat and ignoring the glove is a mistake. If the team needs a regular third baseman, he needs to play third base, not just spend some time there, but possess it. Is Devers ready for that?
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Post by m1keyboots on Jul 22, 2017 10:07:03 GMT -5
The 6'3" Frazier has averaged about 20 games a year at 1b; his flexibility is attractive. For a decent 3b who's had experience at 1b, the switch is not a problem. And citing the batting average of a player when that is the worst part of his game is not a great argument, is it? At one time not long (3 years), frazier was considered a plus defender...
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Post by telson13 on Jul 22, 2017 16:30:23 GMT -5
Defense really, really matters. People need to absorb that. Bringing the guy up for the bat and ignoring the glove is a mistake. If the team needs a regular third baseman, he needs to play third base, not just spend some time there, but possess it. Is Devers ready for that? Agreed, and I genuinely believe Devers can produce average 3b production offensively (or maybe slightly better) and near-average defense. I think he's capable of putting up a 1.5-2 WAR/150G performance right now. Frankly, I think more AAA time is better in an ideal world, but I also think there's no 3b option out there that's remotely close to being so clearly superior that it's worth the $/talent cost, not to mention the change in salary/talent calculus it would have on acquiring a reliever.
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Post by voiceofreason on Jul 22, 2017 19:56:10 GMT -5
Devers will be the Sox answer to third by the middle of August, if not sooner. His numbers are better than AB's were last year and it doesn't look like AAA is going to slow him down. Four for four, double, HR and 2 runs scored, nice 1st game. Too early or not he is forcing his way to the show, let the Devers era begin!! Sorry to sound like a broken record, but again, not sure that Benintendi is the best comp given that he was nearly two full years older last year than Devers is this year. Better numbers at one level (and they're not overwhelmingly so, although I agree Devers' Portland line is indeed better) doesn't necessarily portend less of an adjustment upon promotion. There is also the defensive side of the spectrum to consider. Personally, I'd like to see Devers get at least a month in Pawtucket, even if they don't go get someone like Frazier. Otherwise, we'll see him on September 5. I agree completely, which is why I said mid August. When I posted that mid August was about a month away. If he has an OPS north of 800 or so and isn't striking out too often come that time I would say it is time. Defense is obviously important but is that really going to improve much between now and the start of next season when most are saying he will be the starter? Hopefully he will settle down, what does he have 3 errors already at AAA?
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