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2013 Offseason non-Sox MLB Discussion
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 10, 2013 12:45:39 GMT -5
Their hitting prospects certainly are much more impressive than their arms, though I like CJ Edwards, who they picked up in the Garza deal. Rob Zastryzny probably only has a #3 upside but should be a fast study, and they took a ton of college arms in this years draft who I honestly don't know much about.
As far as players who aren't actually in the system yet, they also seem likely to get a strong prospect in return for Samardzija (Arizona has been rumored for what feels like forever). Also, the #4 pick in the draft should net them an impressive arm. Rodon will be gone unless something goes very wrong with his junior year, but at least one and probably two of Hoffman, Beede and Kolek will be available. Hoffman would probably be a top-20 prospect today.
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Post by p23w on Nov 10, 2013 13:54:52 GMT -5
Why? He really didn't make any terrible decisions. He got a lot of terrible outcomes, but that kind of analysis is purely retrospective. Everything he did was at least defensible at the time, and more often than not his moves were praised to high heaven. The fact that a bunch of the players he brought in decided to go into mid-career tailspins at the same time... I mean, no one predicted that and I don't know how anyone could have predicted it. Nothing terrible, but there were a lot of sort of bad moves. The Lowell contract; replacing Manny with Bay (which was okay) and then with Cameron, shifting Ellsbury to LF (which was not, not for Cameron as a player, but for the OF it would create); taking really long to find any replacement for Jason Varitek's corpse; failing to have pitching depth, both starting and bullpen; the Crawford contract; the Beckett contract; the Bobby Jenks contract. The Beckett and Crawford contracts were the ones that did me in. But you can disagree you know, free country and all. For me it was Julio Lugo. Followed by "Rent"aria. Absolutely hated both signings.
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Post by nexus on Nov 11, 2013 10:15:19 GMT -5
Why? He really didn't make any terrible decisions. He got a lot of terrible outcomes, but that kind of analysis is purely retrospective. Everything he did was at least defensible at the time, and more often than not his moves were praised to high heaven. The fact that a bunch of the players he brought in decided to go into mid-career tailspins at the same time... I mean, no one predicted that and I don't know how anyone could have predicted it. Nothing terrible, but there were a lot of sort of bad moves. The Lowell contract; replacing Manny with Bay (which was okay) and then with Cameron, shifting Ellsbury to LF (which was not, not for Cameron as a player, but for the OF it would create); taking really long to find any replacement for Jason Varitek's corpse; failing to have pitching depth, both starting and bullpen; the Crawford contract; the Beckett contract; the Bobby Jenks contract. The Beckett and Crawford contracts were the ones that did me in. But you can disagree you know, free country and all. Cameron 2/$15M, Brentz (comp), and Workman (comp) > Bay 4/$66M Just one example demonstrating why I think your analysis is completely misguided. I could come back with other examples of good (Wagner = Ranaudo, Beltre = Swihart, JBJ), but it doesn't seem to matter because FTHW made a great point you've chosen to ignore. All of the signings/trades, Cameron included, were easily defensible at the time. Well, everyone with the exception of Crawford - but reading between the lines and looking at Theo's historical tendencies, it wouldn't surprise me if that signing was done outside of his sphere of influence.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 11, 2013 11:23:08 GMT -5
Jon Heyman ?@jonheymancbs 2m Joe Mauer will move to 1B, twins announce
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 11, 2013 11:28:00 GMT -5
I've been barking up this tree for years, but Mauer has the physical tools to make him an elite third baseman. It's no sure thing, but with his arm and footwork I can't understand why they wouldn't try it out, especially with the dead zone that third base has been for the Twins basically since Corey Koskie left. Though it's possible that they may have asked and Mauer has no interest in learning third. It just seems such a waste to me to make such a good athlete a full-time first baseman. I can understand using him there on days he doesn't catch, but putting that arm at first base makes me weep.
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 11, 2013 11:44:22 GMT -5
The Braves will be leaving Turner field and moving into a new stadium after just 20 years in what remains a decent enough ballpark. You gotta scratch your head on this, especially when you compare it to the Oakland and Tampa ballpark situations. Still, it's all about money, and moving to the nicer northern suburbs and reaping millions of dollars of funding from the government/tax payers (when is that going to stop?) makes sense to the Braves financially. I've never been to Turner, or the Atlanta area at all, but I've heard some fans mention Turner isn't located in the nicest of areas. The new park is going to be in a far more concentrated area of Braves fan and wealth, restaurants, and other attractions. Still, it's only been 17 years at Turner, and they're going to have two perfectly legitimate ballparks while other teams endure a miserable struggle to escape the dumps they call home. Here's a map from Home of the Braves of where ticket sales come from, with the locations of the current and new ballparks:
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 11, 2013 11:55:11 GMT -5
So it's like if the Yankees moved up to Westchester because they got a sweet stadium deal and there were less undesirable people that the suburban folks didn't want to see around the park. Moving up there will be fine if/when the team is playing well. But having a downtown stadium makes it a lot easier for more people to go to games, so if the team struggles it could be a real disaster.
There is no bigger scam going than the public financing of sports arenas.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 11, 2013 12:08:11 GMT -5
Nothing terrible, but there were a lot of sort of bad moves. The Lowell contract; replacing Manny with Bay (which was okay) and then with Cameron, shifting Ellsbury to LF (which was not, not for Cameron as a player, but for the OF it would create); taking really long to find any replacement for Jason Varitek's corpse; failing to have pitching depth, both starting and bullpen; the Crawford contract; the Beckett contract; the Bobby Jenks contract. The Beckett and Crawford contracts were the ones that did me in. But you can disagree you know, free country and all. Cameron 2/$15M, Brentz (comp), and Workman (comp) > Bay 4/$66M Just one example demonstrating why I think your analysis is completely misguided. I could come back with other examples of good (Wagner = Ranaudo, Beltre = Swihart, JBJ), but it doesn't seem to matter because FTHW made a great point you've chosen to ignore. All of the signings/trades, Cameron included, were easily defensible at the time. Well, everyone with the exception of Crawford - but reading between the lines and looking at Theo's historical tendencies, it wouldn't surprise me if that signing was done outside of his sphere of influence. Even Crawford projected as a player who, if he wasn't the most efficient use of resources, would improve the team. It wasn't a great signing because of the awkard fit, but given that Crawford appeared to be mid-peak and the Red Sox were trying to maximize their short-term chances, it made sense. I know that judging everything in retrospect is the standard in sports, but it's such a bad way to operate. It's like if you buy a two family house and then termites destroy it, but you also buy a lottery ticket and win ten million dollars. The lesson here isn't that lottery tickets are great and investment properties suck, it's that life is unpredictable and you can't judge a decision purely by it's outcome.
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Post by elguapo on Nov 11, 2013 12:27:53 GMT -5
But having a downtown stadium makes it a lot easier for more people to go to games. Does it, though? It's not like public transit in ATL is anything to brag about - you don't just hop on MARTA and go wherever you want like you often can with the T. For better or worse, Atlanta is a sprawling city that relies on driving everywhere, and the new stadium will probably make that access easier. And their statement hints at some sort of shuttle system as well.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 11, 2013 12:29:38 GMT -5
I've been barking up this tree for years, but Mauer has the physical tools to make him an elite third baseman. It's no sure thing, but with his arm and footwork I can't understand why they wouldn't try it out, especially with the dead zone that third base has been for the Twins basically since Corey Koskie left. Though it's possible that they may have asked and Mauer has no interest in learning third. It just seems such a waste to me to make such a good athlete a full-time first baseman. I can understand using him there on days he doesn't catch, but putting that arm at first base makes me weep. As fans I suspect we massively underrate just how difficult it is to move from catcher. Yeah, Mauer theoretically has the athleticism for third. He's also 30, his body is pretty beat up, he's never played a single pro inning at third, and he'd have exactly one offseason to figure it out over there because he's damn sure not going down to the minors to get some defensive reps. There's a reason why you don't see older catchers move to any position besides first base pretty much ever. Plus, you've got to think the next competitive Twins team features Sano at third base anyway, and it's not like they've got some awesome first baseman waiting in the wings. If anything, I could see a case for moving him to an outfield corner, but even that's more stress on his legs.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 11, 2013 12:39:15 GMT -5
How old was biggio when he went to second?
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 11, 2013 12:49:10 GMT -5
How old was biggio when he went to second? When he was 26 in 1992.
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Post by nexus on Nov 11, 2013 13:37:02 GMT -5
But having a downtown stadium makes it a lot easier for more people to go to games. Does it, though? It's not like public transit in ATL is anything to brag about - you don't just hop on MARTA and go wherever you want like you often can with the T. For better or worse, Atlanta is a sprawling city that relies on driving everywhere, and the new stadium will probably make that access easier. And their statement hints at some sort of shuttle system as well. Well, at least MARTA runs through downtown and is the preferred choice of transportation for a large percentage of fans. The geography of the new location will be a logistical nightmare during the work week, unless they completely rework the public transportation system. Despite the team's overall success the last 17 years and the organization's effort to promote a fun, reasonably priced family experience, there really haven't been any signs of attendance rebounding to Glavine, Maddux, Smoltz, Chipper '97 - '00 levels. Geography plays a big part of that, I imagine. It's not exactly somewhere you're comfortable walking around at 11pm trying to find your car.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Nov 11, 2013 18:26:12 GMT -5
I a HUGE surprise Wil "There's Something About Mary" Myers wins the AL ROY.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 11, 2013 18:31:03 GMT -5
Just read the Jose Offerman missed his court date for that bat beating he pulled off several years back with an Indy team, then all the other useless things he did.. Punching an umpire, he has disappeared, just anything to skip out on what he has done to make good. The guy is nothing but a George Bell character who should have been treated to a harsh penalty by MLB early on in their MLB career in order to curb their aura of invincibility. Instead? They continued to prey on others. Remember one time Bell charged Dave Stewert of oakland, a black belt in karate who quickly kicked him with his cleats in the chest as he approached and dropped him immediately, grasping his chest that must have hurt terribly, even if during that time (80's-early 90's), many were made of hard plastic. he got a lesson that it is sometimes best to let people hit him who are better scrappers than he is/was. Edit: Forgot the link at espnboston: offerman story
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Post by jmei on Nov 12, 2013 11:24:52 GMT -5
The first domino falls-- Marlon Byrd signs a two-year deal with the Phillies. His agents, Sam and Seth Levinson of ACES, like to move early in free agency, in noted contrast to other agents like Scott Boras. Their other free agent clients this offseason include Grant Balfour, Joaquin Benoit, Raul Ibanez, and Mike Morse (David DeJesus already re-upped with the Rays).
Interestingly, they also represent Jon Lester, which may mean that he's amendable to a long-term extension this offseason. After all, ACES also represents Dustin Pedroia, who recently got a long-term extension of his own.
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Post by docman on Nov 12, 2013 12:19:31 GMT -5
Nothing terrible, but there were a lot of sort of bad moves. The Lowell contract; replacing Manny with Bay (which was okay) and then with Cameron, shifting Ellsbury to LF (which was not, not for Cameron as a player, but for the OF it would create); taking really long to find any replacement for Jason Varitek's corpse; failing to have pitching depth, both starting and bullpen; the Crawford contract; the Beckett contract; the Bobby Jenks contract. The Beckett and Crawford contracts were the ones that did me in. But you can disagree you know, free country and all. For me it was Julio Lugo. Followed by "Rent"aria. Absolutely hated both signings. I never liked the Beckett deal. He hadn't pitched well the year before and was showing signs that his body was wearing down. But more than any one particular deal, I didn't like the big picture with the guy. He tried to build the Sox up into a "Madden" team (i.e., a bunch of stars) instead of building from the farm system. He squandered way too many guys for quick fixes, and more often than not, that's a strategy that just doesn't work. So, yeah, I'm a Theo critic. I'm glad he's gone, because his method was simply not sustainable.
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 12, 2013 12:41:09 GMT -5
For me it was Julio Lugo. Followed by "Rent"aria. Absolutely hated both signings. I never liked the Beckett deal. He hadn't pitched well the year before and was showing signs that his body was wearing down. But more than any one particular deal, I didn't like the big picture with the guy. He tried to build the Sox up into a "Madden" team (i.e., a bunch of stars) instead of building from the farm system. He squandered way too many guys for quick fixes, and more often than not, that's a strategy that just doesn't work. So, yeah, I'm a Theo critic. I'm glad he's gone, because his method was simply not sustainable. www.fangraphs.com/blogs/building-through-the-draft-best-of-the-best/Theo got more out of his farm system than any other GM, and that doesn't include good players he traded for value (the Masterson-for-Martinez deal, for example). I'd like to seen an update for 2013, and maybe I'll do one at some point, but Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Workman, Bogaerts, and Doubront played key roles, Bradley and Middlebrooks had more uneven years at the major league level, Barnes, Ranaudo, Cecchini, Owens and Swihart are all players drafted in the Theo regime.
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Post by raftsox on Nov 12, 2013 19:27:12 GMT -5
How awesome would it be if the Pirates signed Kuroda?
*haven't heard any rumors, I just want to see it happen.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 13, 2013 0:23:31 GMT -5
The first domino falls-- Marlon Byrd signs a two-year deal with the Phillies. The Phillies had the third-oldest hitters in baseball last year. Champion that he is, Rubin Amaro is not satisfied with the bronze...
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 13, 2013 1:19:42 GMT -5
By comparison, Ruiz is a juvenile at 34. Time for him to move along??
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2013 23:42:39 GMT -5
Nick Punto signs with the Athletics. He was one of the better utility infielders on the market, and his ability to switch-hit is a nice asset that would have helped the Red Sox. $3m isn't much to pay for a good utility guy, either, and there's a vesting/club option for 2015, too.
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Post by soxfanatic on Nov 14, 2013 3:32:52 GMT -5
Nick Punto signs with the Athletics. He was one of the better utility infielders on the market, and his ability to switch-hit is a nice asset that would have helped the Red Sox. $3m isn't much to pay for a good utility guy, either, and there's a vesting/club option for 2015, too. I'm looking at Brendan Ryan as our utility infielder. Don't know he can play multiple positions, but he plays elite defense at SS. He'll probably re-sign with the Yankees though. If that's the case I'm all for Willie Bloomquist.
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Post by jmei on Nov 14, 2013 13:50:13 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 14, 2013 16:10:16 GMT -5
Jeff Passan ?@jeffpassan 12m Agent: Ricky Nolasco has multiple four-year offers. Source believes one is $52M, could end up as high as $60M. News: yhoo.it/I1xf0D
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