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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2013 15:41:31 GMT -5
Anyway, I think the point was to get guys like Mujica in 2012, rather than sign Mujica with the "proven closer" cost. Those are harder to find in FA b/c players who are FAs (FAs already have a track record and the prior team may have used them as 8th or 9th inning guys if deserving, etc.), but that is how I (optimistically) read it. Guys who potentially fit that description: Joe Smith, LaTroy Hawkins, Jamey Wright, Jose "Papa Grande" Valverde, Kyle Farnsworth, and injury reclamations like Ryan Madson and Octavio Dotel.
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Post by sarasoxer on Nov 13, 2013 18:01:05 GMT -5
Anyway, I think the point was to get guys like Mujica in 2012, rather than sign Mujica with the "proven closer" cost. Those are harder to find in FA b/c players who are FAs (FAs already have a track record and the prior team may have used them as 8th or 9th inning guys if deserving, etc.), but that is how I (optimistically) read it. Guys who potentially fit that description: Joe Smith, LaTroy Hawkins, Jamey Wright, Jose "Papa Grande" Valverde, Kyle Farnsworth, and injury reclamations like Ryan Madson and Octavio Dotel. Yuk, yuk, yuk &........yuk!
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,980
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Post by jimoh on Nov 13, 2013 18:08:43 GMT -5
Does anyone agree with Boras that Drew is a top-5 defensive SS? Top 10, maybe?
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wcp3
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Posts: 3,824
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Post by wcp3 on Nov 13, 2013 18:50:36 GMT -5
He's top 5.
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Post by mjammz on Nov 13, 2013 18:57:39 GMT -5
At this point in time, it looks like we may have 3 draft picks in the top 28-30. Pretty good class this year too, will at least make it another fun year to speculate, mock, and debate prospects.
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2013 19:23:20 GMT -5
Does anyone agree with Boras that Drew is a top-5 defensive SS? Top 10, maybe? Per UZR/150, he was 7th in 2013. But if we're projecting forward, I think he's back-end top 10 at best. Just off the top of my head, the following are probably as good or better: Simmons, Igleias, A. Escabar, Hardy, B. Ryan, Tulowitzki, Kozma, Barmes.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 13, 2013 19:33:45 GMT -5
At this point in time, it looks like we may have 3 draft picks in the top 28-30. Maybe, but that's probably a shade optimistic. If they keep their own first rounder, it will probably wind up somewhere between 21 and 28. Any compensation picks will probably wind up somewhere between 30-36 or something. The picks would all come at the end of the comp round, but before the Cards if Beltran goes elsewhere: mlb.mlb.com/news/article/mlb/jonathan-mayo-all-qualifying-offers-declined-2014-draft-order-clearer?ymd=20131111&content_id=63845866&vkey=news_mlbIf we assume that Cano and Napoli re-sign, and that Kuroda either re-signs or retires, and that, say, two of the remaining 10 sign with teams with protected picks, the Red Sox would have picks 22, 31, and 32. EDIT: Corrected myself after doing a quick-and-dirty projection.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 13, 2013 19:37:33 GMT -5
Does anyone agree with Boras that Drew is a top-5 defensive SS? Top 10, maybe? Per UZR/150, he was 7th in 2013. But if we're projecting forward, I think he's back-end top 10 at best. Just off the top of my head, the following are probably as good or better: Simmons, Igleias, A. Escabar, Hardy, B. Ryan, Tulowitzki, Kozma, Barmes. UZR/150 also ranked Yunel Escobar as a better defender than Jose Iglesias, so clearly, uhhh.... defensive stats are awesome and we should just bake them into WAR and take that stat at face value, I guess? Iglesias and Simmons are clearly 1 and 1A on the list. After that there's a bunch lot of good shortstops and I don't really know how to rank them.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 13, 2013 20:48:01 GMT -5
Per UZR/150, he was 7th in 2013. But if we're projecting forward, I think he's back-end top 10 at best. Just off the top of my head, the following are probably as good or better: Simmons, Igleias, A. Escabar, Hardy, B. Ryan, Tulowitzki, Kozma, Barmes. UZR/150 also ranked Yunel Escobar as a better defender than Jose Iglesias, so clearly, uhhh.... defensive stats are awesome and we should just bake them into WAR and take that stat at face value, I guess? Iglesias and Simmons are clearly 1 and 1A on the list. After that there's a bunch lot of good shortstops and I don't really know how to rank them. Yunel Escobar is an above average defender at SS and Iglesias had a weird season bouncing back and forth between SS and 3B before settling in at SS (an coincidentally his defensive numbers improved at the same time). Defense is like offense - you can't look at a player who hit .280 vs RHP and another player who hit .275 vs RHP (but only had half the at bats as the first player) and claim that the first player is clearly better at hitting RHP. This is the difference between how good a player is and how well he performed over a given period of time - which is greatly affected by outside forces. The only gripe on defense is that they are SSS - but given a full season for a SS this is a minor difference. Sorry for the tangent!
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Post by amfox1 on Nov 14, 2013 13:54:51 GMT -5
If we assume that Cano and Napoli re-sign, and that Kuroda either re-signs or retires, and that, say, two of the remaining 10 sign with teams with protected picks, the Red Sox would have picks 22, 31, and 32. EDIT: Corrected myself after doing a quick-and-dirty projection. That, of course, assumes that no team between pick #12 and pick #29 signs more than one QO player. I assume the following: Cano, Napoli and Morales re-sign with their 2013 teams Kuroda goes back to Japan or re-signs with the Hankees Beltran to BAL (lose #17 pick) Choo to HOU (lose competitive balance pick after 1st round) Cruz to KC (lose #19 pick) Drew to STL (lose #31 pick) Ellsbury to CHC (lose 2nd round pick) Granderson to NYM (lose 2nd round pick) Jimenez to PIT (lose #27 pick) McCann to TEX (lose #22 pick) Santana to WAS (lose #20 pick) That gives BOS the #24 pick, plus picks #31 and #32 as compensation picks. They would next pick 66th and again 102nd (and each 30th pick thereafter).
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 14, 2013 16:49:15 GMT -5
Does anyone agree with Boras that Drew is a top-5 defensive SS? Top 10, maybe? Per UZR/150, he was 7th in 2013. But if we're projecting forward, I think he's back-end top 10 at best. Just off the top of my head, the following are probably as good or better: Simmons, Igleias, A. Escabar, Hardy, B. Ryan, Tulowitzki, Kozma, Barmes. Ryan, Kozma and Barmes can't swing the bat enough to deserve starting gigs and the jury is still out on Iglesia so when Boras says he's a top 5 guy, he may be stretching but may be spot on when it comes to guys who are clearly starting caliber short stops. The problem with his argument is how many starting caliber short stops are there really in baseball right now? I'm sure there are a lot more than 5 guys who are better simply with the glove, even if Drew is really good with the glove.
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Post by GyIantosca on Nov 14, 2013 18:58:19 GMT -5
You know there is a chance we lose Napoli. I hope not. I don't think they want to give him more than 2 but they gonna have to offer 3. But the problem is in the market if he gets offered 4 and there is really no power out there. All it takes is one team. Remember people didn't know he could field 1b. He did it very well.
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 14, 2013 19:23:33 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind losing Napoli if he isn't interested in a short term deal.
Sure he is one of the few power bats available, but there are other ways to win games than power and the Red Sox need someone who can protect Ortiz by being a constant threat, not someone who can hit like a maniac one month, but can't touch the ball the next month.
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Post by johnsilver52 on Nov 14, 2013 20:10:26 GMT -5
Does anyone agree with Boras that Drew is a top-5 defensive SS? Top 10, maybe? Per UZR/150, he was 7th in 2013. But if we're projecting forward, I think he's back-end top 10 at best. Just off the top of my head, the following are probably as good or better: Simmons, Igleias, A. Escabar, Hardy, B. Ryan, Tulowitzki, Kozma, Barmes. Maybe per Uzr/150, but some people would say differently per range and go with slick fielders/rangey guys like Adeiny Hechavarria and Iglesias near the top of any lest.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 14, 2013 20:23:58 GMT -5
Since GM meetings are over I think, can we lock this thread so we do not have the same discussion going on in this and the offseason thread? It gets kind of confusing..
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