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Red Sox, Pierzynski nearing 1-year/$8.25mm deal
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Post by soxfan06 on Dec 3, 2013 12:20:14 GMT -5
I've made my feelings known on Salty all along.
However, I am not going to spin this move as a great one. Pierzynski is another one of these above average hitter, below average defensive catcher. He is overpaid. And he is barely above replacement level.
The only two positives about him are the fact that he is only signed for 1 year and the fact that he controls the run game better than Salty, but only just barely.
I was really hoping the Sox would suck it up and just go with an awesome defensive duo behind the play who was subpar at hitting because I think the other side of the catcher is more important. Watching a catcher who can hit but not catch, is really just a pain in the ass to follow.
It is still a better option than Jarrod Saltalamacchia for 4 years and what is going to be nearly $13 million per year. This however, brings into question why the hell the Red Sox didn't offer Salty the a QO. Made no sense then, makes no sense now.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Dec 3, 2013 13:06:17 GMT -5
A couple of days ago I read that Pierzynski was about to sign with Minnesota. Maybe that forced the hand of the Sox. I thought they would re-sign Salty, but this is OK. Different personalities, and different styles of play, but not all that different at the plate, or in basic defense. Pierzynski is far more aggressive and will be more of a presence on the field.
And the clubhouse will be even more lively.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 3, 2013 13:14:23 GMT -5
While he's not my favorite guy to watch, the deal is very much in the vein of the team's master plan. It's hard to argue with a one-year deal. It's a bit of an overpay, but given the contract length, and the depth that comes from having a left-handed bookend to the right-handed array of catching choices already on the roster, I think it's a real plus.
Someone will probably be leaving soon, as they will not carry all those catchers on the 40-man.
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Post by burythehammer on Dec 3, 2013 13:20:24 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox still telling people that they think Lavarnway is a major league catcher.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 3, 2013 13:25:26 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox still telling people that they think Lavarnway is a major league catcher. Wouldn't be surprised if he's the first guy off the 40-man when they need a spot.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 3, 2013 13:40:55 GMT -5
I thought they needed at least a 1 year stopgap. Right on cue.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 3, 2013 13:46:10 GMT -5
Seems like a fine signing that sticks to the plan without hampering the ability to make other moves. The catching situation in the bigs is a mess and unless you can groom one from your farm system it's pretty difficult to get that well above average player without spending an absurd and tax hampering money.
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Post by okin15 on Dec 3, 2013 13:51:18 GMT -5
This is a good plan for the franchise. You were going to overpay for one of the two acceptable players on the market, and you have more than enough back-ups on the 40 for this move.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 3, 2013 13:57:05 GMT -5
Don't like this move at all. Pierzynski is mediocre defensively, not that Salty was any great shakes either, but he's a guy who is a serious hacker. Last year Salty actually took his fair share of walks and worked the count.
Between AJP and WMB, the Sox will feature two batters totally allergic to walks. Pierzynski is the exact opposite of what the Red Sox lineup featured in 2013, a guy who works the count and grinds down pitchers. Pierzynski ABs are over with quickly.
I was concerned the Sox would get this guy and now they have. I'd prefer 3 years of Salty because I'm not convinced that Swihart and Vazquez will be ready for full-time duty in 2015 or possibly even 2016.
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Post by sdiaz1 on Dec 3, 2013 14:03:10 GMT -5
I guess we are all wishing that we gave Salty that QO. Just for kicks here are the streamer projections for AJP, Salty, and Hanigan. AJ P: .265 BA .302 OBP .411 SLG .713 OPS .310 wOBA 88 WRC+ 2.1 WAR *Really rosy defensive projection. (447 PA) Salty: .230 BA .301 OBP .412 SLG .715 OPS .312 wOBA 96 WRC+ 2.9 WAR (599 PA) Hanigan: .250 BA .340 OBP .341 SLG .681 OPS .300 wOBA 86 WRC+ 2.2 WAR (380 PA)
Yes AJ has a significant advantage over Hanigan in the power department, but Hanigan's vastly superior on base skills actually makes him almost as valuable at the plate as AJ. That is before you consider defense, where there is no competition and Hanigan is miles better than either AJ or Salty.
And great, it looks like the Rays just picked him up. So this entire catcher saga has been a pretty ugly mess. 1) We undervalued the catching market initially and did not offer a QO to Salty and forefitted a pick.. 2) The best catcher available is now a Yankee. 3) We are stuck with a guy who is the very definition of minimally acceptable, who also happens to be a high risk candidate for injury or decline. 4) The best undervalue catcher in the market is headed to Tampa, who I am sure traded no one of consequence.
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Post by moonstone2 on Dec 3, 2013 14:04:49 GMT -5
So it looks like Hanigan will be going to the Rays in a three team deal and they are dealing Lobaton. Interesting to see what it took to get him and if it was realistic for the Sox to get him as opposed to Pierzynski.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 3, 2013 14:08:19 GMT -5
No idea how many options Lavarnway or Butler has,. There is a website that has a lot of good information about this sort of thing: www.soxprospects.com/40man.htmThanks elguapo.....much appreciated.
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Post by Don Caballero on Dec 3, 2013 14:33:41 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox still telling people that they think Lavarnway is a major league catcher. He isn't.
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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 3, 2013 15:17:43 GMT -5
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Dec 3, 2013 15:26:13 GMT -5
The Law says... " They just need someone to pick up about 90 games or so while they give prospect Christian Vazquez, a defensive specialist who showed some improvement at the plate in 2013, most of a year in Triple A, with David Ross probably handling 40 to 50 games as a heavy backup. Signing Pierzynski isn't going to make a significant dent in the Red Sox's playoff chances in 2013"
I love the Vasquez endorsement.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 3, 2013 15:31:36 GMT -5
I love the Vasquez endorsement. Committing to an internal solution at C from 2015-onward (initally as backup, perhaps) frees up long term budgetary room to pursue a major signing/re-signing.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Dec 3, 2013 15:50:11 GMT -5
Are the Red Sox still telling people that they think Lavarnway is a major league catcher. He isn't. Ah, but that wasn't the question. What are the Sox telling people? A little over a month ago the Sox caught lightning in a bottle. The team with a puncher's chance scored the knockout. If the organization wants to keep their transition plan in place while giving themselves perhaps a different kind of puncher's chance of defending their title next year, Pierzynski seems like an OK addition. He brings a fiery demeanor, a little more championship experience, and he'll fill the catching vacancy for only a year, probably. And he has the historical precedent that if he can stay healthy he can catch enough to not overexpose Ross. Then, if his defense sucks in the playoffs, they can go to Ross again, if it comes to that. And if he doesn't like it and explodes, they jettison him after the season. It's all good.
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Post by PedroKsBambino on Dec 3, 2013 15:54:41 GMT -5
A cost controlled catcher for the next several years is good to have and gives the Sox money to spend elsewhere in the future. The free agents next year though aren't that good. That is why I think this year is the time to strike in free agency by signing either Ellsbury or Choo.
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Post by jmei on Dec 3, 2013 16:01:17 GMT -5
It is still a better option than Jarrod Saltalamacchia for 4 years and what is going to be nearly $13 million per year. There is just about zero change of this happening, by the way. Saltalamacchia is going to get something like three years at a $10-12m AAV at best. If some team was offering more than that, he'd have signed by now, and most of the catcher-needy big market teams have filled their voids already. The latest scuttlebutt is that the Twins and Marlins are the two teams in on him, and neither of those clubs is going to hand him anywhere close to that amount of money. Texas is rumored to be looking elsewhere, and the only other team who needs a starting catcher is the Rockies, who probably won't break the bank, either.
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Post by GyIantosca on Dec 3, 2013 16:32:33 GMT -5
Ben is the man, he played that perfectly. Don't fall in love with your own veterans. You didn't need to be Sherlock Holmes to know after the World Series that Salty's days were numbered. To me it didn't really seam there was any negotiations going on between the 2 parties.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 3, 2013 16:36:09 GMT -5
Not sure in what world Law expected a 1-2 WAR catcher to only get 1-2 Million on a 1 year deal. Is $8 an overplay, probably. But they weren't getting a catcher for under $5M unless they traded prospects, so at most its a few $M overpay, which is absolutely nothing
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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 3, 2013 16:41:18 GMT -5
The final on Hanigan trade: www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/rays-to-acquire-ryan-hanigan.htmlI don't know much about Choate (insert comperable Red Sox Prospect here), but it looks like the Rays got Hanigan for salary relief on Bell. We could have basically made this same deal for the price of AJ. Not really sure what you are going to get with Bell, but I would of liked that move much better than AJ.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Dec 3, 2013 16:44:24 GMT -5
Hanigan's certainly a smart gamble for the Rays. Their FO is always on it, making sure they don't break the bank while getting good players to fill in the blanks. But the Sox don't need an aging catcher with injury issues for the next 3-4 years. They have a bunch of guys who are or will be knockin' on the door. I'm glad they're serious about looking in-house. As for Pierzynski, he just happened to be in the right place (behind the plate) at the right time (post CBA free agency) with the right bat (a lefty one).
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Post by jrffam05 on Dec 3, 2013 16:50:05 GMT -5
Hanigan's certainly a smart gamble for the Rays. Their FO is always on it, making sure they don't break the bank while getting good players to fill in the blanks. But the Sox don't need an aging catcher with injury issues for the next 3-4 years. They have a bunch of guys who are or will be knockin' on the door. I'm glad they're serious about looking in-house. As for Pierzynski, he just happened to be in the right place (behind the plate) at the right time (post CBA free agency) with the right bat (a lefty one). Ray's didn't have to extend him. They just wanted a high defensive value low priced catcher.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,936
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Post by ericmvan on Dec 3, 2013 16:51:54 GMT -5
So it looks like Hanigan will be going to the Rays in a three team deal and they are dealing Lobaton. Interesting to see what it took to get him and if it was realistic for the Sox to get him as opposed to Pierzynski. It may not have been. The Rays did the deal dependent on first signing him to a three-year extension at $10.75, plus a club option for 2017, so they were willing to pay more for a long-term solution, whereas we were looking for a rental. The Diamondbacks got him first, for their #6 prospect from last year, LHSP David Holmberg. Seems to be a better prospect than Britton, lesser than Workman (in part because he pitched in AA this year); a high-floor guy with polish and command but who sits 88-91 and projects as a #3/4 starter. The Rays are perhaps the most sabermetrically sophisticated team out there, and it wouldn't surprise me if they were on to the same thing I was, i.e. that he'll hit much better if not hitting in front of the pitcher.
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