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Post by jrffam05 on May 20, 2014 15:01:25 GMT -5
Alex Speier ?@alexspeier 17s Source confirms Drew major league deal for prorated qual offer. Deal came together over last roughly 48 hours. SO WMB news not good? It's either not good news, or they're going to give up any chance of him developing or they're putting him in AAA. Or he is being traded I was assuming the active roster meant the active MLB roster...
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Post by jmei on May 20, 2014 15:01:51 GMT -5
I thought it was less than that because of the Capuano signing. I'm also not sure how Sizemore's incentives fit in and that's a $5m variable. Capuano got $2.25m guaranteed and $500K in eachable roster bonuses (he also had $2.25m in bonuses tied to starts/IP that he doesn't look like he'll reach), but that plus the Drew prorated money merely offsets the Dempster retirement money and shouldn't put them over. Sizemore has $5.25m in bonuses, but even if he reaches them all (unlikely), Speier's budget includes $5m budgeted for in-season trades, which should cover any bonuses Grady does reach. In short: it might be close enough that any additional signing/trade causes them to go over the luxury tax, but this transaction alone doesn't look like it'll do so. Also remember that this ownership might be willing to pay luxury tax limit for the right addition at the right time.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on May 20, 2014 15:06:44 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo ?@nickcafardo 9m This is our understanding: Drew will go on the active roster Wednesday but will go play in the minors for 7-10 days. Yet another example of why Cafardo is not a good baseball writer... plenty of room in 140 characters that Drew put on 40 man roster and play in minors for approx 7 to 10 days
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Post by jmei on May 20, 2014 15:21:46 GMT -5
It's either not good news, or they're going to give up any chance of him developing or they're putting him in AAA. This is pretty hyperbolic. Spending half a season in the short end of a platoon does not foreclose the possibility of Middlebrooks developing into a productive major league starter. A lot of players start their careers as platoon players but emerge as quality full-time starters-- think Michael Cuddyer (who didn't get 600+ PAs until his sixth season in the majors), Jayson Werth (who similarly struggled with injuries and platooned with the immortal Geoff Jenkins), Todd Frazier (who platooned and spent considerable stretches at 1B and the outfield (as well as spot innings at 2B/SS) before settling in as an above-average 3B), etc.
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Post by bsout2 on May 20, 2014 15:24:55 GMT -5
Not really a fan of this...seems like a total overreaction to a poor start to the season. Rather see X get all the time as SS. Not really an overreaction. Bogaerts has had a rough time at SS, Middlebrooks has broken finger, the Red Sox starting 3B is Holt, they have below average offense at a number of positions. The list goes on and on, they have a lot of holes. Securing SS and 3B for the rest of the year and not giving up any young talent, was a GREAT move.
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Post by jmei on May 20, 2014 15:28:49 GMT -5
The only thing I wonder about is the fact that the roster will now be carrying 7 left handed batters. More changes to come I would think. Yeah, but only four lefties (Ortiz, Drew, Pierzynski, Bradley) will play every day, with Sizemore also starting but only versus RHP. They'll still have Gomes and Middlebrooks (once he returns) as righties who start versus LHP or pinch-hit against LOOGY-types. Plus, even with Drew, four of their best six hitters will be right-handed (Napoli, Pedroia, Bogaerts, Victorino; the two lefties in the mix are Ortiz and Drew), so I don't think the lineup is in any risk of being too left-handed anytime soon. As Alex Speier notes here, the Red Sox really struggled versus right-handed pitching, and adding a righty-masher in Drew is only going to help restore balance to the lineup.
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Post by jrffam05 on May 20, 2014 15:35:20 GMT -5
What are the rules on when Drew can be traded? Not saying it as a pessimist, just wondering.
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Post by marrcus on May 20, 2014 15:41:02 GMT -5
I guess Boras didn't have the Drew after-draft multi year deal he was hinting at?
"possibly for Betts." -------------------- Don't see Betts at ss (replacing Stephen). 2015 ss looks like X to me.
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Post by brianthetaoist on May 20, 2014 15:45:15 GMT -5
I'm not worried about WMB, but I would've preferred that they got a reasonable third baseman and kept Xander at short. As I said in the Marrero thread, I don't think Xander's a guy who can spend a bunch of time at third and then go back to short later ... but since it's only this year, I don't think it's that big a deal on that front. And, if the cost was too high for a 3rd baseman, this is fine. They needed to do *something* about the left side of the infield, and they also needed to do something to lengthen the lineup against right-handers.
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Post by mgoetze on May 20, 2014 15:45:47 GMT -5
This WMB to LF or 1B talk really needs to stop. His defense is just fine at 3B and if he can't hit well enough to stick there then he definitely can't hit well enough for LF or 1B.
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Post by jimed14 on May 20, 2014 15:46:09 GMT -5
It's either not good news, or they're going to give up any chance of him developing or they're putting him in AAA. This is pretty hyperbolic. Spending half a season in the short end of a platoon does not foreclose the possibility of Middlebrooks developing into a productive major league starter. A lot of players start their careers as platoon players but emerge as quality full-time starters-- think Michael Cuddyer (who didn't get 600+ PAs until his sixth season in the majors), Jayson Werth (who similarly struggled with injuries and platooned with the immortal Geoff Jenkins), Todd Frazier (who platooned and spent considerable stretches at 1B and the outfield (as well as spot innings at 2B/SS) before settling in as an above-average 3B), etc. I'm going to guess that it reduces the chance he develops.
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Post by Guidas on May 20, 2014 15:50:41 GMT -5
Step 1 is done. Now Ben needs to sign Carbonell, trade Peavy and bring up either Workman or RDLR, and trade for Stanton before the deadline. Do that and you'll be in first place on Sept 30, which is all that really counts any way, AND be set up with young talent for the next 4-6 years depending on Stanton's extension, how quickly Marrero thrives at SS next year, and if Carbonell accepts a 4 year deal.
All is proceeding as I have foreseen...
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Post by okin15 on May 20, 2014 15:54:54 GMT -5
But in increases the chance we win the world series... so it might be worth it.
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Post by jmei on May 20, 2014 15:57:02 GMT -5
This is pretty hyperbolic. Spending half a season in the short end of a platoon does not foreclose the possibility of Middlebrooks developing into a productive major league starter. A lot of players start their careers as platoon players but emerge as quality full-time starters-- think Michael Cuddyer (who didn't get 600+ PAs until his sixth season in the majors), Jayson Werth (who similarly struggled with injuries and platooned with the immortal Geoff Jenkins), Todd Frazier (who platooned and spent considerable stretches at 1B and the outfield (as well as spot innings at 2B/SS) before settling in as an above-average 3B), etc. I'm going to guess that it reduces the chance he develops. You're right, but (a) I don't think he had that high of a chance to develop in the first place (guess hitters almost always stay guess hitters) and (b) it's just a tradeoff-- hurt his long-term development somewhat, but make the present roster better in the short-term-- and one that the front office was willing to make.
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Post by Guidas on May 20, 2014 16:09:21 GMT -5
Or he could just wear his friggin glasses and get some lens wetting drops.
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Post by soxfan06 on May 20, 2014 16:09:47 GMT -5
I thought it was less than that because of the Capuano signing. I'm also not sure how Sizemore's incentives fit in and that's a $5m variable. Capuano got $2.25m guaranteed and $500K in eachable roster bonuses (he also had $2.25m in bonuses tied to starts/IP that he doesn't look like he'll reach), but that plus the Drew prorated money merely offsets the Dempster retirement money and shouldn't put them over. Sizemore has $5.25m in bonuses, but even if he reaches them all (unlikely), Speier's budget includes $5m budgeted for in-season trades, which should cover any bonuses Grady does reach. In short: it might be close enough that any additional signing/trade causes them to go over the luxury tax, but this transaction alone doesn't look like it'll do so. Also remember that this ownership might be willing to pay luxury tax limit for the right addition at the right time. Also, isn't it not an issue if we go over the luxury tax for a season. Going over the Luxury Tax mark becomes an issue when you spend multiple years over it. Or am I completely off base?
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Post by burythehammer on May 20, 2014 16:22:12 GMT -5
I'm fine with this as long as it's a strict platoon and Xander plays SS against lefties.
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Post by mgoetze on May 20, 2014 16:26:08 GMT -5
Also, isn't it not an issue if we go over the luxury tax for a season. Going over the Luxury Tax mark becomes an issue when you spend multiple years over it. Or am I completely off base? Well, if you plan to go over the luxury tax in some years but not in others ... do you then really want to be JUST BARELY over it, or do you want to go over it properly in those years?
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on May 20, 2014 16:36:46 GMT -5
Not really a fan of this...seems like a total overreaction to a poor start to the season. Rather see X get all the time as SS. Not really an overreaction. Bogaerts has had a rough time at SS, Middlebrooks has broken finger, the Red Sox starting 3B is Holt, they have below average offense at a number of positions. The list goes on and on, they have a lot of holes. Securing SS and 3B for the rest of the year and not giving up any young talent, was a GREAT move. Do you think they would have made this move if they were 25-18 and in 1st place? Also, why would a team make this kind of move in May...if not because they are overreacting. I get there are a lot of reasons to make the move...but I think it is a hyper-response to the teams current deficiencies.
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Post by jimed14 on May 20, 2014 16:38:57 GMT -5
There are a lot of issues going on here and this one didn't cost anything in terms of prospects.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on May 20, 2014 16:44:07 GMT -5
The report I saw said a contract for the remainder of the year for around $10 mil, no QO at year end. I see what was posted above on the luxury tax but my understanding is that we would be a little over the limit with this contract and would have to cut somewhere else to stay under the limit ( I see a highly respected poster saying above this is not the case but it seems very close ). My understanding also is that we would lose up to $50 mil in revenue sharing dollars if we go over the limit. We are not going over the limit for anyone this year.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the main issue isn't the luxury tax rate for us this year. We are at the lowest level and we would be barely over the limit so we would be talking a mil or 2 at most probably. The issue is maybe $50 mil in lost revenue sharing. Maybe I'm missing some details or just have my facts wrong but that is my understanding.
Personally, I love the commitment to winning, but I don't like even this deal. And my gut tells me Middlebrooks is on his way somewhere else at this point. The fractured finger meant he would be a out for a while. They want to win this year and pulled the trigger.
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Post by jimed14 on May 20, 2014 16:45:45 GMT -5
Cut Sizemore and call up Nava if we want to stay under.
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Post by Guidas on May 20, 2014 16:53:57 GMT -5
The report I saw said a contract for the remainder of the year for around $10 mil, no QO at year end. I see what was posted above on the luxury tax but my understanding is that we would be a little over the limit with this contract and would have to cut somewhere else to stay under the limit ( I see a highly respected poster saying above this is not the case but it seems very close ). My understanding also is that we would lose up to $50 mil in revenue sharing dollars if we go over the limit. We are not going over the limit for anyone this year. Correct me if I'm wrong but the main issue isn't the luxury tax rate for us this year. We are at the lowest level and we would be barely over the limit so we would be talking a mil or 2 at most probably. The issue is maybe $50 mil in lost revenue sharing. Maybe I'm missing some details or just have my facts wrong but that is my understanding. Personally, I love the commitment to winning, but I don't like even this deal. And my gut tells me Middlebrooks is on his way somewhere else at this point. The fractured finger meant he would be a out for a while. They want to win this year and pulled the trigger. Trade Peavy and bring up Workman or RDLR. Either gives you the same thing at 1/20th the price.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on May 20, 2014 16:54:15 GMT -5
Well that was a pointless waste of everyone's time.
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Post by Guidas on May 20, 2014 16:55:42 GMT -5
Cotts had the Sox at $157M before Drew signing for 2014. Not sure how accurate that is but Lux Tax is $189M, correct?
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