|
Post by jerrygarciaparra on Jul 30, 2014 16:54:50 GMT -5
It really is amazing...all the front office apologists for the Lester re-sign. They have looked either stupid or arrogant in this whole thing.
I'll say it as well as the beginning my username once sang it.
"He's goooone...and nothing's gonna bring him back..he's gone"
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 30, 2014 17:14:26 GMT -5
It really is amazing...all the front office apologists for the Lester re-sign. They have looked either stupid or arrogant in this whole thing. I'll say it as well as the beginning my username once sang it. "He's goooone...and nothing's gonna bring him back..he's gone" Much has been said about John Henry's staff of non-baseball men/bean counters whose sole job is to quantify the value of baseball players. What we haven't heard much said about though is this - Are these bean counters valuing players present value or their future value? 19 months ago, when Anibal Sanchez signed for 5 years / $80 million, a lot of people thought that was too much. Now, you could argue that Sanchez is underpaid.
|
|
|
Post by flasox on Jul 30, 2014 17:20:05 GMT -5
There is enough blame to go around on this situation. The Lester apologists have no conception of negotiation if they think that the original offer by the Sox so offended him that there would be no negotiations. He would have a lot more credibility if his agent made a counter offer that was refused by the Sox. It is clear that as is his right he wanted to try free agency and let the market set his salary.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 30, 2014 17:26:28 GMT -5
There is enough blame to go around on this situation. The Lester apologists have no conception of negotiation if they think that the original offer by the Sox so offended him that there would be no negotiations. He would have a lot more credibility if his agent made a counter offer that was refused by the Sox. It is clear that as is his right he wanted to try free agency and let the market set his salary. Nothing is clear here. It's a bunch of rumor and hearsay.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 31, 2014 7:32:11 GMT -5
Much has been said about John Henry's staff of non-baseball men/bean counters whose sole job is to quantify the value of baseball players. What we haven't heard much said about though is this - Are these bean counters valuing players present value or their future value? 19 months ago, when Anibal Sanchez signed for 5 years / $80 million, a lot of people thought that was too much. Now, you could argue that Sanchez is underpaid. You obviously know that they're trying to predict a player's future value. But predicting player performance, like most attempts at predicting the future, is very difficult. Citing single examples where the projections have been wrong is not much of an indictment on the process.
|
|
|
Post by fenwaythehardway on Jul 31, 2014 8:15:30 GMT -5
Much has been said about John Henry's staff of non-baseball men/bean counters whose sole job is to quantify the value of baseball players. What we haven't heard much said about though is this - Are these bean counters valuing players present value or their future value? 19 months ago, when Anibal Sanchez signed for 5 years / $80 million, a lot of people thought that was too much. Now, you could argue that Sanchez is underpaid. That's not even a plausible level of incompetence. Financial experts who aren't accounting for inflation would be the equivalent of a surgeon not accounting for the amount of blood that's in a patient's body.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 8:16:59 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 31, 2014 8:25:28 GMT -5
Completely agree with Bradford on Lester's contract here. No matter what way they were going to go with this, it never should have gotten to this point. This is a PR black-eye for the Sox right now, and barring the re-acquisition of Lester, or a star pitcher (or two - if they move Lackey, too) it will linger into the off season and grow more bitter. The vast bulk of this fan base does not want to see a rebuild or get excited when they trade for unproven prospects. If this team - and especially their veterans - struggle next April again, the that clubhouse could get ugly fast and the collective din of the fans and media will point to losing Lester and the way it was handled, whether it is pertinent to the struggles or not. Personally, I'm cautiously optimistic that this will pave the way for moves that will produce immediate results in 2015, but I'm still not sold on Cherrington - his trade and free agent acquisitions have been mixed - lousy 2011-12 off-season, great 2012-13 off-season, lousy 2013-14 off-season). But if they don't make the playoffs next year, and are a .500 team or worse team at the All Star break. this will degenerate into a PR grease-fire.
|
|
|
Post by Guidas on Jul 31, 2014 8:35:37 GMT -5
"What, if anything, is Lester doing differently to make these changes possible? Well, his pitch selection has changed fairly dramatically in recent years." This is in line with Lester's comments that he starting throwing less and pitching more. This makes me even more sure that this front office is making is a big mistake, especially if they could've had him for around 5 at $110M (or slightly less) in the off season. They must be seeing something in the medicals, right? They can't be simply reacting to regressions based on samples of other 30+ year old pitchers without considering the individual, right?…Right!? Water under the bridge. He's gone and not coming back. I will stand by my contention they will regret this for the next several years.
|
|
|
Post by godot on Jul 31, 2014 8:42:32 GMT -5
Much has been said about John Henry's staff of non-baseball men/bean counters whose sole job is to quantify the value of baseball players. What we haven't heard much said about though is this - Are these bean counters valuing players present value or their future value? 19 months ago, when Anibal Sanchez signed for 5 years / $80 million, a lot of people thought that was too much. Now, you could argue that Sanchez is underpaid. You obviously know that they're trying to predict a player's future value. But predicting player performance, like most attempts at predicting the future, is very difficult. Citing single examples where the projections have been wrong is not much of an indictment on the process. Haven't you just "indicted" this process. It's a game and basically educated guess work. You can also be educated into stupidity. No offense.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2014 12:45:48 GMT -5
G
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
|
Post by bigmo on Jul 31, 2014 12:58:07 GMT -5
It wasn't too long ago (Winter of 2012/2013) that many of you wanted the Sox to trade Lester to KC for Will Myers. Now would any of you trade last years ring and Cespedes for Myers? Perspective is a fickle bitch.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 31, 2014 13:01:47 GMT -5
So those favorites......
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
|
|
|
Post by MLBDreams on Jul 31, 2014 13:09:46 GMT -5
I don't think Lester would be back with the RS after they showed him out of the door by the trade. It's their way or the highway approach. It's final divorce between him & the FO. I can't see they offer more than 5 yr/100+ higher contract to bring him back. The Yankees will snap him up since they have unlimited financial to do it.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 13:10:43 GMT -5
I don't think Lester would be back with the RS after they showed him out of the door by the trade. It's their way or the highway approach. It's final divorce between him & the FO. I can't see they offer more than 5 yr/100+ higher contract to bring him back. The Yankees will snap him up since they have unlimited financial to do it. That's why Lester just said a few days ago that he'd prefer to re-sign with the Red Sox even if they trade him.
|
|
|
Post by beasleyrockah on Jul 31, 2014 13:15:10 GMT -5
I don't think Lester would be back with the RS after they showed him out of the door by the trade. It's their way or the highway approach. It's final divorce between him & the FO. I can't see they offer more than 5 yr/100+ higher contract to bring him back. The Yankees will snap him up since they have unlimited financial to do it. Kind of like when they underbid for Cano and he walked, right? "Unlimited financial" though.
|
|
|
Post by MLBDreams on Jul 31, 2014 13:31:17 GMT -5
Right, it's rare for the Yankees to lose their own key FA player with $175 mil offer (not low ball). Seattle caught them by surprise with their better offer. If the Yanks get Lester for only 5-6/100-120 price range then, it's lose-lose for the RS that undervalue him in the market.
|
|
|
Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 13:33:53 GMT -5
Right, it's rare for the Yankees to lose their own key FA player with $175 mil offer (not low ball). Seattle caught them by surprise with their better offer. If the Yanks get Lester for only 5-6/100-120 price range then, it's lose-lose for the RS that undervalue him in the market. If Jon Lester goes to the Yankees for 5 years and $100MM you don't think the Sox offer that as well? I am guessing if Jon Lester gets 5 years and $100MM there is only one team that gets him at that discount and it would be the team that just traded him.
|
|
|
Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jul 31, 2014 15:32:37 GMT -5
Gordon Edes?@gordonedes·2 mins I'm having a tough time believing this, but I'm told Red Sox plan to make huge effort to re-sign Lester
Haha. Let's see what talking points Cafardo copies and pastes into his next Lester article from the home office.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2014 17:17:21 GMT -5
G Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk David Ortiz "I have a very good feeling I'll be playing with Jon Lester again" via verducci on mlb network
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,903
|
Post by nomar on Aug 1, 2014 17:20:31 GMT -5
Lester is loyal but he will be tempted. We won't be the biggest bidder. I want him back, but whatever happens is the result of BC's choices. Either way, I love Lester what what he's given to me personally. Hope to see him back here in a deal that doesn't cripple our team. Either way, he's the man.
|
|
|
Post by mredsox89 on Aug 1, 2014 17:21:12 GMT -5
So it appears as this stuff will continue to come out and give the fan base the idea that Lester will actually be back. Really hope it happens, but it would just be so ridiculous and out of the norm for it to occur
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Aug 1, 2014 18:54:32 GMT -5
G Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk David Ortiz "I have a very good feeling I'll be playing with Jon Lester again" via verducci on mlb network Ryan Hannable ?@ryanhannable 8m Lester said he thanked the Red Sox organization yesterday for everything they've done & "we'll see where that relationship goes."
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Aug 1, 2014 20:07:04 GMT -5
Copied from the game thread.
“Any time you negotiate with a team and it doesn’t go the way everyone wants it, there’s always a little bit of disappointment, but that’s not to say the effort wasn’t there on both sides to get something done. But my time in Boston will be something I always remember and cherish, from 2002 to yesterday. I’ve got nothing but great things to say about the organization, the way they treated me, treated my family through the good times and bad times. We’ll see where that relationship goes later on, but right now I’m an A and I’m going to go out and perform for these guys and do the best I can to bring the championship here.” - Jon Lester
Hopefully this ends the "they blew it by offending him with a lowball offer" crap.
|
|
|
Post by thelavarnwayguy on Aug 1, 2014 20:58:59 GMT -5
A quick review by me came up with Cespedes as a little better BA than Napoli and more pop, fewer walks. Factor the fly ball rate and the foul balls for sure plus the closer fence in LF and the fact that he is a definite pull hitter ( 3rd highest pull rate in the AL ). The guy is a perfect storm in Fenway. And Napoli is overperforming a little right now. Cespedes is 4 years younger, healthier. My bet is on Cespede's bat going forward.
|
|