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Red Sox agree to sign Grady Sizemore
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Post by James Dunne on Jan 24, 2014 11:53:22 GMT -5
Thanks Matt - I'd missed that before. Really it doesn't make a whole ton of sense to me, but neither do quite a few things in the CBA.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jan 24, 2014 12:05:03 GMT -5
Joel Sherman ?@joelsherman1 3 min. Sizemore's $750K deal #with #Redsox has $4M in potential PA, roster bonuses. Also $50K if Comeback Plyr of Yr
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Post by soxcentral on Jan 24, 2014 12:26:20 GMT -5
Whether Sizemore actually produces or helps at all, at least he gave us something to talk about here for a couple days. So there's that to be thankful for.
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Post by okin15 on Jan 24, 2014 15:27:37 GMT -5
There are 5 options at the end of ST, all of which cost little OR have a big return: 1. everyone's healthy and Sizemore tears the cover off the ball in ST so JBJ is optioned 2. everyone's healthy and Sizemore tears the cover off the ball in ST so Nava, Carp or Sizemore are traded 3. everyone's healthy but Sizemore isn't as good as Nava/Carp/JBJ, so he's released 4. everyone but Sizemore are healthy, so he goes on the DL and life continues as normal 5. someone else is hurt, so Sizemore gets some time in the OF or DH spelling the uninjured OF/1B/DH
Honestly though, what are the chances that all of JBJ, Nava, Carp, Sizemore, Papi, Gomes, Napoli, and Victorino are all healthy? With no Sizemore, who are you calling up (only to send back down later)? With no Sizemore, who is playing RF and CF if it's JBJ or Victorino who are injured (or ineffective in JBJ's case)? That is the upside.
The risk is $750 if he's worthless, and not much more if he helps the team win and/or keep prospects on their development track.
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Post by okin15 on Jan 24, 2014 16:42:29 GMT -5
...from Bradford's column, note the emphasis in Farrell's comments about "bringing him along slowly." This implies "long look" to me. When you consider those comments, the major league contract, incentives (however pie in the sky they may be) it sure sounds as if they are taking more than a flier on this guy. Barring another injury or an outright horrible showing in Ft. Meyers, it seems as though they plan on him being on the roster when they break camp. More likely than him being on the roster is him being in XST and/or Pawtucket on a rehab assignment. How is this different than any other rehab/reclamation project the Sox have had over the years. Many of those were pitchers, but the idea was always the same: give the guy time to play a little in ST and XST and on a rehab stint. See where he is, and if you find him useful, or if there's a need, then bring him up. This is the Andrew Miller approach but for a CF. Convince the guy he doesn't want to rush things, that he needs time to get back into perfect shape, that he should do some of that in the minors, and then hopefully you end up with a more than serviceable backup. Maybe JBJ needs a spell in Pawtucket in late April, or someone goes down, but THAT is the time-frame we should be thinking about here.
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Post by rjp313jr on Jan 24, 2014 16:58:03 GMT -5
Miller has a minor league deal. Extremely different and not comparable
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Post by jmei on Jan 24, 2014 17:14:24 GMT -5
My understanding is that position players on the 15-day or 60-day DL can only be assigned to a minor league affiliate for a rehab assignment for a maximum of 20 days, but that they can be sent to Extended Spring Training indefinitely prior to starting that 20-day rehab clock. If that's the case, and there's no limit on the time a player can spend in Extended, the Red Sox could conceivably put Sizemore on the 60-day DL coming out of Spring Training and send him to Extended indefinitely as long as he consented to it and there are at least some real injury issues.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 24, 2014 18:05:57 GMT -5
A 40-man roster move will be needed. Best guesses are Villarreal and Herrera, with Herrera being my guess. It's Villarreal who is DFA'd. Myself I'd rather have Villarreal than Sizemore. In the time since Grady Sizemore has appeared in a major league game, Villarreal has both appeared in the majors and for one of those seasons pitched very effectively. Yes he is out of options, but the Red Sox pen was gassed at the end of last year. By the end of the World Series Breslow was spent. Uehara is going into his age 39 season, and he also pitched a lot last year. It's very likely that at least one of the projected bullpen starters won't make it to opening day. It would be nice to have a backup who throws 95 and had an excellent season as recently as 2012. My guess is that if Sizemore can show this spring that he's healthy, and that's a big if, he's the starting CF on opening day with JBJ manning the field at Pawtucket.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 24, 2014 18:15:52 GMT -5
It's Villarreal who is DFA'd. Myself I'd rather have Villarreal than Sizemore. In the time since Grady Sizemore has appeared in a major league game, Villarreal has both appeared in the majors and for one of those seasons pitched very effectively. Yes he is out of options, but the Red Sox pen was gassed at the end of last year. By the end of the World Series Breslow was spent. Uehara is going into his age 39 season, and he also pitched a lot last year. It's very likely that at least one of the projected bullpen starters won't make it to opening day. It would be nice to have a backup who throws 95 and had an excellent season as recently as 2012. My guess is that if Sizemore can show this spring that he's healthy, and that's a big if, he's the starting CF on opening day with JBJ manning the field at Pawtucket. I'd guess the hope is that he'll clear, and the thought being that the plan was to try to get him through waivers all along, but who knows?
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Post by jmei on Jan 24, 2014 19:05:08 GMT -5
Two quick things re: Villarreal:
-His 2012 was good but not that good. A lot of it was just giving up three home runs in 54.2 IP (0.49 HR/9) despite an extreme fly ball profile (just 30.5% GB that year) (although, to be fair, he had suppressed home runs in the minor leagues-- just a 0.61 HR/9 over his minor league career, 0.53 HR/9 in 119 AAA innings). His lack of control still stood out that year, with a 4.61 BB/9 (career 5.64 BB/9 in the major leagues, 4.99 BB/9 in AAA).
-Villarreal probably would have been DFAed at some point in 2014 (he was pretty clearly the most expendable member of the 40-man). As Chris points out above, he might have a better chance of sneaking through waivers now as opposed to sometime during the season, since this is the time when rosters are fullest (after most free agents have been signed, before injuries start popping up).
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Post by highcheeseandtaters on Jan 24, 2014 19:55:29 GMT -5
Sizemore is the perfect waiver claim candidate... either he shows enough to stick, or they do extended ST, and take it as far as they can, and try to get him through waivers.
He's strictly depth/back-up, I don't know why anyone would think JBJ is trying out for the job at this point. Unless Sizemore absolutely lit it up so hard and completely outperformed JBJ-- I don't see that happening. If it were the case, JBJ has options left, so they'd have to make that call.
Sooner or later, we have to find out what we have with this kid. And we have to give him the room to prove himself. Good bad, or ugly.
Remember when Pedroia came up and absolutely stunk the joint out the start of his rookie season? I was screaming at the TV to send him down, but Tito knew something I sure as hell didn't. He kept throwing him out there, and viola 4-6 weeks into the season he turned the corner.
I'm of the mind we gotta sink or swim with him-- and he needs the long look as opposed to the Pawtucket shuttle if we're ever gonna know.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 24, 2014 21:30:52 GMT -5
I don't think Villarreal would clear. Guys who throw 95 don't grow on trees, and there are plenty of teams with very short bullpens. I'd be surprised if every team passed on giving him a free look.
As far as how good he is and if "he'll be DFA'd anyways" that kind of misses the point. The back of the Sox pen consists of a 39 year old, a guy who was injured at the end of last season, and two guys who looked spent. That can go south in a hurry. Bullpen depth is important and not worth cutting into for a guy who hasn't played in two years because he looked good in a workout.
I think it's likely that Sizemore was promised the centerfield job if healthy and that was one of the reasons he agreed to terms. It would be the rational thing to do. If you think two players are equal or close, the player without options gets the job.
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Post by jmei on Jan 24, 2014 22:13:32 GMT -5
I agree RE: the importance of bullpen depth, but I think there's a good bit of depth already. Between Britton, Wilson, the newly signed Mijares, Wilson, and Hinojosa, the depth chart is pretty deep, not to mention guys like Noe Ramirez and Aaron Kurcz that should be in Pawtucket by June and any number of possible rotation candidates that could cut their teeth in the bullpen. The possibility of losing Villarreal is a real downside to adding Sizemore, but I think the value of even a probably-gimpy Sizemore over the next best option on the outfield depth chart (Hassan or Brentz if Sizemore is corner outfield-only; Cousins if he can play CF) is probably more than the upside of Villarreal over the next best options on the RP depth chart.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jan 24, 2014 22:54:30 GMT -5
...I think it's likely that Sizemore was promised the centerfield job if healthy and that was one of the reasons he agreed to terms. It would be the rational thing to do. If you think two players are equal or close, the player without options gets the job. Realize that, even when he was healthy, Sizemore was not the equal of Bradley defensively. He's far from those days now. I do think he'd be a great addition to the team, but I also see it as a sign that someone will be traded if he pans out. What does pan out mean? Able to cover all three of the outfield positions adequately, offering a good to very good bat when he is in the lineup, and chalking up 250-300 at bats. That would be an absolute triumph as a comeback. But he won't be starting in centerfield unless the team is willing to give up a bunch of runs on the defensive side, and to sacrifice what a lot of baseball people believe will be a very useful bat.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 25, 2014 1:12:05 GMT -5
...I think it's likely that Sizemore was promised the centerfield job if healthy and that was one of the reasons he agreed to terms. It would be the rational thing to do. If you think two players are equal or close, the player without options gets the job. Realize that, even when he was healthy, Sizemore was not the equal of Bradley defensively. He's far from those days now. I do think he'd be a great addition to the team, but I also see it as a sign that someone will be traded if he pans out. What does pan out mean? Able to cover all three of the outfield positions adequately, offering a good to very good bat when he is in the lineup, and chalking up 250-300 at bats. That would be an absolute triumph as a comeback. But he won't be starting in centerfield unless the team is willing to give up a bunch of runs on the defensive side, and to sacrifice what a lot of baseball people believe will be a very useful bat. I would guess Sizemore was promised the opportunity to compete for the centerfield job. The Red Sox probably don't want to hand the job to a very unproven player.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 25, 2014 9:00:32 GMT -5
Gabe Kapler on what it's like to play badly after a serious injury (just one!), then sit out a year (to manage for the Sox), then come back "At 32, but feeling fresher and more invigorated than I had in years." In 2008 he "posted what I believe to be my most consistent season as an MLB player recording a wRC+ of 119," then played several more years Only relevant mutatis mutandis, but interesting. msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/kapler-red-sox-risk-of-signing-sizemore-could-pay-off-big-time-012414
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Jan 25, 2014 22:14:27 GMT -5
Realize that, even when he was healthy, Sizemore was not the equal of Bradley defensively. He's far from those days now. I do think he'd be a great addition to the team, but I also see it as a sign that someone will be traded if he pans out. What does pan out mean? Able to cover all three of the outfield positions adequately, offering a good to very good bat when he is in the lineup, and chalking up 250-300 at bats. That would be an absolute triumph as a comeback. But he won't be starting in centerfield unless the team is willing to give up a bunch of runs on the defensive side, and to sacrifice what a lot of baseball people believe will be a very useful bat. I would guess Sizemore was promised the opportunity to compete for the centerfield job. The Red Sox probably don't want to hand the job to a very unproven player. Reportedly, he was minutes from signing with someone (likely the Reds), but was extremely impressed by the rehabilitation plan the Sox laid out for him.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jan 25, 2014 23:22:39 GMT -5
With his age, injury issues last year and the tremendous added value of having a cf in right, could the Sizemore signing potentially be more about rf and Victorino insurance than JBJ?
It is hard to imagine after all he has been through that Sizemore would be able to play mlb capable cf.
And Vic has had surgery of his own.
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Post by sibbysisti on Jan 26, 2014 11:06:55 GMT -5
The signing of Grady Sizemore had me thinking, oddly enough, of Ryan Westmoreland. Ryan, a five tool prospect, was often compared to Grady in terms of potential. Shame how his career was derailed. I hope he is recovering and returning to a normal life.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jan 26, 2014 12:18:18 GMT -5
I always had basically the same thought whenever I heard anything about Grady. I think it was Callis that said it and the way he said it was interesting. Paraphrasing: "Ryan's ceiling is what Grady Sizemore should have been."
Coming up, Grady was comped to Griffey Jr. and his pending MLB full time entrance was what prompted Cleveland to trade Crisp to the Sox.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 26, 2014 12:57:47 GMT -5
The signing of Grady Sizemore had me thinking, oddly enough, of Ryan Westmoreland. Ryan, a five tool prospect, was often compared to Grady in terms of potential. Shame how his career was derailed. I hope he is recovering and returning to a normal life. little story on Lowell retiring his number with Ryan "learning to adjust to life as a regular kid, taking courses through Northeastern University while he ponders his next move" www.boston.com/sports/blogs/ondeck/2014/01/westmoreland_humbled_by_spinners_honor.html
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Post by Don Caballero on Jan 26, 2014 13:05:55 GMT -5
Realize that, even when he was healthy, Sizemore was not the equal of Bradley defensively. Shouldn't we moderate our expectations with Bradley's glove as well? Sizemore had 3 truly outstanding defensive years playing CF with the Indians (05, 06 and 08) and I know his arm wasn't all that strong, but his range, sheer speed and goods reads of balls in play were terrific. Not saying Bradley won't be even better in the future, but there could be some growing pains in that area.
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Post by h11233 on Jan 26, 2014 13:22:47 GMT -5
The only way I'd imagine that he'd underperform versus expectations in the field is if he's really pressing due to struggles in other areas of his game. I think it'd be a stretch to expect it, but it's plausible. Not enough of a concern to believe they'd sign Sizemore for that reason, though.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,966
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Post by jimoh on Jan 26, 2014 13:43:50 GMT -5
Realize that, even when he was healthy, Sizemore was not the equal of Bradley defensively. Shouldn't we moderate our expectations with Bradley's glove as well? Sizemore had 3 truly outstanding defensive years playing CF with the Indians (05, 06 and 08) and I know his arm wasn't all that strong, but his range, sheer speed and goods reads of balls in play were terrific. Not saying Bradley won't be even better in the future, but there could be some growing pains in that area. Yes, let's not award Bradley a platinum glove right now.
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Post by moonstone2 on Jan 26, 2014 16:44:57 GMT -5
Villareal was a right handed power pitcher who could throw 96-97 with experience. None of the guys you mention or allude to fit that description. In short, Villareal is a pretty good arm to throw away for a player who hasn't played in two years.
Sizemore can't be traded until mid June and even then, no one is giving you anything for him unless he shows he can still play.
I really don't see how you can have both him and Bradley on the roster. You would have to trade Carp or Nava likely for less than they are worth. I don't see how the Sox would be better off short-term or long-term by doing that. If you are arguing that there is NO chance that Sizemore can be more valuable than Bradley at least to start the season then this was a bad move. I don't see how the Sox are better off by giving Sizemore Carp's job.
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