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4/10-4/13 Red Sox @ Yankees Series Thread
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Post by jmei on Apr 13, 2014 22:00:56 GMT -5
...and now I think we get to see Carp at 3B.
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Post by godot on Apr 13, 2014 22:06:58 GMT -5
I'm in agreement with fenwaythehardway here. This last offseason, I was really hoping the team would sell high on Doubront. Did not answer the question. Why is he having problems this year? He was lucky tonight, believe it or not. Could you tell me what you saw last year, specifically during the world series. . Not saying you are wrong, but please give some reason for your belief. Fenwaywhateverhis name is just threw out a dumb clique. Yeah, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan, and randy Johnson all got of to brilliant stats to their careers. Using Fen's rule of thumb, they would have been written off. I would just like to know what is what with Felix.
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 13, 2014 22:07:13 GMT -5
WTF is with Felix? He seems to have less velocity and no bite on the breaking stuff. Is it time for a trip to the minors or just patience with him. I am usually patient with the development of young pitchers, but he seems to be going backwards.Never a safe bet that a pitcher is going to "develop" just because they're young. So many of these guys are never better than the first 2/4/600 innings they throw in the majors. All arms wear out, some wear out faster than others. Interesting way to look at it, and definitely one that may pertain to Doubront. The box score may not show it, but Doubie really did pitch poorly tonight. Thankfully we have options behind him if he continues to struggle. Going into the season, I hoped that Webster and Ranaudo could emerge as 2 of those options, but it appears as if Capuano or Workman would be next in line in the case of a Doubie move to the pen. I'm perfectly fine with that.
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Post by jmei on Apr 13, 2014 22:15:09 GMT -5
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Post by jmei on Apr 13, 2014 22:15:49 GMT -5
Also, this strike zone has been pretty ridiculous.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Apr 13, 2014 22:17:07 GMT -5
Also, this strike zone has been pretty ridiculous. I can understand a few bad calls but the entire series it seemed like we were dealing with that crap. At the end of the game in particular it started to get really bad.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 13, 2014 22:17:26 GMT -5
More bad baseball. Losing 3 of 4 to a mediocre Yankee team a week after getting swept by the Brewers. It's like they can't get a clutch hit or can't score unless they hit a homer. Very frustrating to watch. Hope they get healthy and start playing better.
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Post by bluechip on Apr 13, 2014 22:18:31 GMT -5
This offense is pretty sad right now. Injuries have really taken a toll, but this team is pretty lacking in power when healthy.
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Post by Guidas on Apr 13, 2014 22:19:06 GMT -5
Hey look, this team is starting out almost exactly like the 2012 team, minus the maniac. This Yankee team is among the worst I've ever sedn yet they managed to grab three from the Sox. Outstanding.
Luckily we go to Chicago next where the temperature will struggle to get out if the 30s.
Just frustrating to watch.
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Post by pasadenasox on Apr 13, 2014 22:19:31 GMT -5
It's annoying, but it is a lineup with Herrera and Roberts in it. Good thing it's a long season.
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 13, 2014 22:24:49 GMT -5
That was the most frustrating game of this young season. The strike zone in the 8th & 9th was just atrocious (I'm not one to complain about umpires), and the BABIP gods simply weren't with us tonight.
The good: -Ryan Roberts & Mike Napoli w/ the bats, JBJ w/ the glove. -Hererra and Nava hit the ball well today, just right at people. -Capuano pitched well. If Doubie Ash Tray's struggles continue, he may be the first man up.
I don't feel like going through the bad. Day off tomorrow before a 13-game stretch, lets go Sox.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Apr 13, 2014 22:26:17 GMT -5
...and now I think we get to see Carp at 3B. Yes, mei. The Carp to 3B is real, not just a fantasy baseball gimmick. He did a bit of 3B in the minors. Now, if Carp got beaned, forcing a run in, and forcing extra innings .... is it Nava to 3B or David Ross?
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Apr 13, 2014 22:40:22 GMT -5
When you win the world series you can pretty much expect to have your strike zone squeezed the next year. It happens.
I know many of you will call this BS but IMO, this is an entertainment business and the umps know where their bread is buttered. The league prefers the yankees to not implode early in the year. It's in baseball's interest for the Yanks to at least be in the mix. In the network's interest and in the Umps interest. They're the guardians of the franchise. They basically manage the game for maximum profitability. They try to be objective and honorable of course, but it doesn't take much predisposition to often skew the results of games, and the league is happier when the games are good entertainment and often that means letting the bad team win once in a while.
It's even in the players interest quite often. It's another 10% in the coffers.
And Yankee stadium in general is intimidating for umps. They don't want to make a call the 57000 people in the stands don't like.
And I for one do not discount the possibility, with billions of dollars involved in legal and illegal betting activity, that an occasional intentionally bad ump decision can happen. Even 3-4 intentionally bad strike calls can be worth millions of dollars to the right party.
It doesn't even have to be intentional. As noted above, it doesn't even have to be intentional. There are factors beyond intentional collusion. To not notice these factors is potentially naive or not paying attention. I'm not saying it happens every game, but it does happen some.
The Sox deserved to win that game, even with 3 starters on the DL and the closer on the fritz. I believe that generally the best team still has every chance to make the playoffs. We just have to be patient and hope we don't have these continual injuries impacting the team.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Apr 13, 2014 22:40:27 GMT -5
Stomp on the panic button people. I'll stomp on the blow it up trade everyone a rebuild the right way button myself.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Apr 13, 2014 22:58:27 GMT -5
In a way this season is going kind of the way I would think it would. Last year had a feeling of magic even if you couldn't believe your eyes that it was real. If they were down you thought they'd come back. Tonight I had no such feeling that the Sox would get the big hit down 3-2 and of course this season Ichiro robs Ortiz. In 2004, 2007, and 2013 the Red Sox got off to fast starts. This doesn't mean that the Sox must get off to a good start to have a shot at defending their Championship and 13 games is a helluva small sample size (see 2-9 stretch last season).
At some point their talent will take over if the injury situation doesn't bite them (Pedroia would be a big loss) too badly but I think the Sox are going to struggle and they're going to lose games to teams that seem inferior and this Yankee team would certainly qualify.
I felt that just about everything that could go right went right last year and this year wouldn't feel the same. That's kind of how it feels - the getting swept at home against the Brewers (really hated seeing them lose on Ring day), the injuries, lack of clutch hitting.
Hopefully it'll get better soon. Meanwhile it's heartening to see Cecchini, Betts, Swihart, and Owens tear it up in the minors (happy to see Margot doing well, too). No matter what happens this year 2015 will be a very interesting season with so many guys knocking on the door to the majors as Bogaerts and Bradley gain another year of experience.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2014 23:25:03 GMT -5
I'm in agreement with fenwaythehardway here. This last offseason, I was really hoping the team would sell high on Doubront. Did not answer the question. Why is he having problems this year? He was lucky tonight, believe it or not. Could you tell me what you saw last year, specifically during the world series. . Not saying you are wrong, but please give some reason for your belief. Fenwaywhateverhis name is just threw out a dumb clique. Yeah, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan, and randy Johnson all got of to brilliant stats to their careers. Using Fen's rule of thumb, they would have been written off. I would just like to know what is what with Felix. Are you being facetious? Because if you are not, then your comparison is akin to that which Scott Boras drew between Oliver Perez and Sandy Koufax / Randy Johnson:
www.amazinavenue.com/2008/11/6/655111/oliver-perez-sandy-Koufax
Why can't Felix Doubront be any of the pitchers you mentioned? Well he's not as smart as Sandy, he isn't right handed like Nolan and he isn't 6'10" like Randy.
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Post by grandsalami on Apr 13, 2014 23:35:24 GMT -5
So umps are incompetent. Figures. “@brianmacp: JF: "We were instructed that when the ball enters the glove, not that it has to hit the back of the glove, is where the out is complete."”
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by godot on Apr 13, 2014 23:41:51 GMT -5
django, figured that would be your response. You also again did not give a reason for your insight last year. Have a nice day.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,932
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Post by ericmvan on Apr 14, 2014 0:00:54 GMT -5
Usually when the other team suffers an injury that forces them to move a player to a position where he has zero innings of professional experience in 19 seasons, that's good. It's about time we caught a break!
When you're the 2014 April Boston Red Sox, however ... of course none of the 13 balls in play hit subsequently are hit to him, and instead the guy who takes over his position makes a ridiculous catch that the original guy couldn't have made with a motor scooter and a stepladder, and said catch turns out to be the difference in a 1-run ball game.
So it goes.
Edit: oh, and after hitting miserably with RISP all season, in the same game you go 2/3, BB, HBP, yet total -.019 Win Probability Added in the 5 PA, since the sole out comes with a Leverage Index of 7.01.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 14, 2014 7:51:22 GMT -5
So umps are incompetent. Figures. “@brianmacp: JF: "We were instructed that when the ball enters the glove, not that it has to hit the back of the glove, is where the out is complete."” Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Not what they were saying on the broadcast during the review. They'd apparently been told that the first baseman has to have control of the ball, which makes a lot more sense. How exactly are you supposed to determine when a ball "enters the glove"? Farrell needs to quit his bitching about this. If you wanted to protest the new replay system, you shouldn't have waited for the immediate aftermath of an overturned call that cost your team a game, because then it looks like you're just whining.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Apr 14, 2014 7:57:54 GMT -5
I'm in agreement with fenwaythehardway here. This last offseason, I was really hoping the team would sell high on Doubront. Did not answer the question. Why is he having problems this year? He was lucky tonight, believe it or not. Could you tell me what you saw last year, specifically during the world series. . Not saying you are wrong, but please give some reason for your belief. Fenwaywhateverhis name is just threw out a dumb clique. Yeah, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan, and randy Johnson all got of to brilliant stats to their careers. Using Fen's rule of thumb, they would have been written off. I would just like to know what is what with Felix. Here's a rule of thumb: if you read something a person wrote, and your first interpretation is "this person thinks Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan should have been written off as young pitchers", maybe read it again with the assumption that the person who wrote it isn't actually the dumbest person in the universe and think about what else he might have meant by his statement.
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slick
New Member
Posts: 1
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Post by slick on Apr 14, 2014 8:16:15 GMT -5
only two logical leadoff options, one is sizemore the other is a healthy vivtorinoj. gomes nava won't work
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Post by ramireja on Apr 14, 2014 8:21:52 GMT -5
Hey everybody, we had such a happy offseason together. Remember those good ol' times? Lets not let a 5-8 start tear us apart. [note. if we lose the series to the white sox, I'm going to start throwing down]
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Post by godot on Apr 14, 2014 8:45:55 GMT -5
Rather than wasting my time and the boards debating Fens who conveniently misinterpreted my statement, I wonder if Eric or someone has data to suggest something about the development curve of pitchers. Just from observation over the years it seems a mix bag, depending of what (?)It seems that a number of (?0 pitchers take time to develop once they hit the big show such as guys with power stuff but wild. This development time may be longer than everyday players. Yup, not all young pitchers develop into something significant, but Koufax et al struggled for a few years'; likewise, in recent memory Lester was a little bumpy and Clay was even banished to the minors.Cliff Lee was even sent packing to the minors. Bob Gibson even had some issues his first two years. There there are: Clemons who got off to a promising start his first two years, then took off. King Felix's numbers were fine, but he had some struggle his first years, perhaps more due to the team he was on. Greg Maddox blossomed in his third year, with high ERAs his first two but good k walk rates. Marichal was ok and then took off. Can a team identify pitchers with promise when they are taking their knocks? Is there anything in common that the late starters struggle with such as command? Is there a pattern to their development such as struggle for two and then take off. Of course, it is easy to say, it depends on the pitcher. Unlike some I don't know how to characterize Felix except puzzling. Seems he should be improving with big steps his third year, but it is early in the season,
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Apr 14, 2014 12:47:41 GMT -5
It is shocking how quickly this team changed from last year's. Yesterday, there were only four players in the starting lineup who were starters early in the season last year: Napoli, Ortiz, Nava and Bradley and Bradley did not stick. It is far too early to think the team won't be competitive. However, there probably will be quite a few changes as the season progresses.
Bradley looks like the permanent CF now. His fielding and throwing are exceptional, and he is hitting some. The other two spots are iffy, but Sizemore certainly seems to be able to hit. I wonder what will happen to Nava once Victorino comes back? If he doesn't start hitting, he might wind up somewhere else.
The infield should look different later on. Either Middlebrooks will be back at 3B, or we probably will see Cecchini, if he keeps hitting at Pawtucket. I sure hope that Pedroia's injury is not serious, but I am concerned that his manner of play is going to limit his career. I don't think the Sox should even think about trading Betts. Bogaerts is OK at SS, but I think he could move over to 3B at some point, but not this year unless they re-sign Drew, and that idea doesn't appeal much to me, anymore.
The Sox pitching actually has been pretty decent and if it holds up, and the hitting rebounds, as it should, the team will be competitive.
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