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First Base for 2013 (and Beyond)
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Post by remember04 on Jan 11, 2013 11:10:36 GMT -5
Isn't the most obvious solution dealing some relief arm/catcher depth for a corner infield prospect? Maybe not even for someone who can play this year -- they can bank on Napoli and Gomez and Mark Hamilton and whoever for now, but as far as the future goes, they're so thin in the ranks at 1B, it's really depressing. I feel like the Sox need just to get bodies at that position to fill the ranks. Oakland stole Miles Head from us as a throw-in for Bailey, and we could trade Bailey or another reliever now. Who's out there at the AA-A level who's blocked and interesting? I'm not enough of a prospect hound to know, but I'm assuming some folks here are. diamondscapescouting.com/scoutingreports_2011_croncj.htmlThere's my choice. I wanted us to draft him but it didn't work out. Has had some injury problems and is blocked by Albert Pujols and Mark Trumbo
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 11, 2013 12:00:35 GMT -5
I really like Matt Adams of the Cardinals. This guy can flat out hit. Allen Craig is the 1b in St. Louis and Craig as of now is blocked off from going back to LF.
I think the Sox would have to give up alot to get Adams. I think the Cards would like a SS, but I don't know that Iglesias would interest them. I'm sure they'd want Barnes and a lot more, but that's one guy I'd be interested in.
And again Smoak. I'd take my chances with him in a deal, too if the price isn't too steep - and I wouldn't think it would be.
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Post by ramireja on Jan 11, 2013 12:14:07 GMT -5
I think the Sox would have to give up alot to get Adams. I think the Cards would like a SS, but I don't know that Iglesias would interest them. I'm sure they'd want Barnes and a lot more, but that's one guy I'd be interested in. I wouldn't mind checking in on Adams. I can't imagine the asking price for an unproven first baseman is Barnes and a lot more though. In fact, I don't think the sox would make that trade straight up.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 11, 2013 13:02:12 GMT -5
I think the Sox would have to give up alot to get Adams. I think the Cards would like a SS, but I don't know that Iglesias would interest them. I'm sure they'd want Barnes and a lot more, but that's one guy I'd be interested in. I wouldn't mind checking in on Adams. I can't imagine the asking price for an unproven first baseman is Barnes and a lot more though. In fact, I don't think the sox would make that trade straight up. No way I make that trade straight up. I might trade Owens for Adams, but not barnes.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
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Post by nomar on Jan 11, 2013 14:46:20 GMT -5
No way for Owens either. Owens' progression this year could make him a great pitching spec.
You guys are completely overrating Adams.
Sickels on Adams:
Matt Adams, 1B, Grade B: Poorly-timed injury, but he destroyed Triple-A pitching and given his track record I think he will eventually adapt to the majors. Like Wong, I don't see him as a star, but rather as a solid regular.
A solid regular 1B is a lot less valuable than a mid-rotation starter, which I would like to see if Owens can actually become.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 11, 2013 16:00:23 GMT -5
No way for Owens either. Owens' progression this year could make him a great pitching spec. You guys are completely overrating Adams. Sickels on Adams: Matt Adams, 1B, Grade B: Poorly-timed injury, but he destroyed Triple-A pitching and given his track record I think he will eventually adapt to the majors. Like Wong, I don't see him as a star, but rather as a solid regular. A solid regular 1B is a lot less valuable than a mid-rotation starter, which I would like to see if Owens can actually become. Whoa, I wasn't advocating dealing Barnes or Owens or any top-notch prospect for Adams. I would part with Iglesias (big stretch there, huh?) and obviously you'd have to part with more than Iglesias and you have to figure the Cards would want pitching help, but I personally wouldn't deal De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes, or Owens (nor would Bogaerts or Bradley be up for discussion either), but I'd still (if Napoli doesn't sign, but I think he will eventually) try to find a good combo. I think Adams will be a good offensive player. He was fantastic last year and he's close to major league ready, if he already isn't.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 11, 2013 21:56:48 GMT -5
No way for Owens either. Owens' progression this year could make him a great pitching spec. You guys are completely overrating Adams. Sickels on Adams: Matt Adams, 1B, Grade B: Poorly-timed injury, but he destroyed Triple-A pitching and given his track record I think he will eventually adapt to the majors. Like Wong, I don't see him as a star, but rather as a solid regular. A solid regular 1B is a lot less valuable than a mid-rotation starter, which I would like to see if Owens can actually become. Whoa, I wasn't advocating dealing Barnes or Owens or any top-notch prospect for Adams. I would part with Iglesias (big stretch there, huh?) and obviously you'd have to part with more than Iglesias and you have to figure the Cards would want pitching help, but I personally wouldn't deal De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes, or Owens (nor would Bogaerts or Bradley be up for discussion either), but I'd still (if Napoli doesn't sign, but I think he will eventually) try to find a good combo. I think Adams will be a good offensive player. He was fantastic last year and he's close to major league ready, if he already isn't. Not a chance you can get Adams for Iglesias as the center of the package. Adams is MLB ready first baseman. If you don't want to trade the pitching prospects would you trade Garin?
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 11, 2013 23:01:12 GMT -5
Whoa, I wasn't advocating dealing Barnes or Owens or any top-notch prospect for Adams. I would part with Iglesias (big stretch there, huh?) and obviously you'd have to part with more than Iglesias and you have to figure the Cards would want pitching help, but I personally wouldn't deal De La Rosa, Webster, Barnes, or Owens (nor would Bogaerts or Bradley be up for discussion either), but I'd still (if Napoli doesn't sign, but I think he will eventually) try to find a good combo. I think Adams will be a good offensive player. He was fantastic last year and he's close to major league ready, if he already isn't. Not a chance you can get Adams for Iglesias as the center of the package. Adams is MLB ready first baseman. If you don't want to trade the pitching prospects would you trade Garin? No, I don't realistically see Iglesias as the centerpiece of the deal, but the Cards are the franchise that dealt Garry Templeton for a non-hitting all-world defensive SS named Ozzie Smith, who did eventually hit. That probably means absolutely nothing, but Iglesias would probably be the best defensive SS since Ozzie. The Cards don't have much up the middle. Kozma is a defensive liability. I think the Cards would prefer the veteran Furcal at 2b rather than SS. Drake Britton or Brandon Workman are two pitchers I'd deal. Not sure about Cecchini. He's one of my binkies - I do believe he'll hit enough to be a solid regular with a really good OBP down the road. Perhaps Andrew Bailey would be of interest? What I wonder is how do the Cards see Adams - is he part of their future? Do they plan on moving Craig back to LF eventually? He's too good to move out of the lineup for Adams. I wonder how they value him. A good hitting near major league ready 1b. Iglesias is a near ready major league SS - yes, he's lousy with the bat although he should ping enough singles to bat 9th and hit .275 one day (probably with a .300 SA and a .300 OBP), but he's Gold Glove material, so I think there's a bit of a match - there - it's just how does it fill in after that?
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Post by mredsox89 on Jan 12, 2013 0:32:11 GMT -5
FWIW, the Cardinals have a SS in Ryan Jackson who's just about MLB ready at this point. Has a better bat than Iglesias, with a lesser, but still ++ glove. He's been a .275+ hitter at every level
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jan 12, 2013 10:55:49 GMT -5
FWIW, the Cardinals have a SS in Ryan Jackson who's just about MLB ready at this point. Has a better bat than Iglesias, with a lesser, but still ++ glove. He's been a .275+ hitter at every level If they do like Jackson alot than yeah, that would make it tougher for the Sox and Cards to match up on a deal unless the Sox dipped into their minor league pitching stash, which I would rather they not.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
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Post by nomar on Jan 12, 2013 13:08:58 GMT -5
For Adams i would trade Iglesias + Britton. Not willing to give more than that, and definitely not Cecchini. His walks scare me for someone who is going to strike out around 20%. If I could count on him walking 7-8% of the time eventually I'd have an easier time buying into him. He seems like a potential AAAA player to me. Still, I do like that he is a good all around hitter.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Jan 12, 2013 16:22:08 GMT -5
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Post by Guidas on Jan 12, 2013 16:50:06 GMT -5
Yah, was me. I figured at best he could be a good back-up, late inning defensive replacement and at worst he gets 550+ at bats.
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Post by jmei on Jan 12, 2013 17:07:59 GMT -5
You could do worse than Casey Kotchman as a left-handed defensive replacement, but even in that role, he's pretty mediocre. He's only a career .264/.332/.403 hitter versus RHP and he's no longer an elite defender at 1B (UZR/150 of -2.9, 2.2, and -0.3 the last three years after four straight seasons of 10+ defense before that). James Loney would have been ideal if you wanted someone to fill that role, but he got signed early.
I wouldn't give Kotchman any more than the veteran's minimum, and even that might be too much if the Red Sox end up near the luxury tax line. I'd prefer him on a minor-league deal with a May 1st opt-out.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Jan 12, 2013 18:48:04 GMT -5
Kotchman or Overbay? I'm not buying what the Red Sox are selling these days. Just gave up partial season ticket plan after 9 years. It was a nice run, but2012 was a debacle and 2013 is not shaping up to be much better until we start to see some one the next generation of players such as Bogarts, Barnes, Bradley, Brentz, Webster,etc.
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Post by bluechip on Jan 12, 2013 19:15:27 GMT -5
For Adams i would trade Iglesias + Britton. Not willing to give more than that, and definitely not Cecchini. His walks scare me for someone who is going to strike out around 20%. If I could count on him walking 7-8% of the time eventually I'd have an easier time buying into him. He seems like a potential AAAA player to me. Still, I do like that he is a good all around hitter. If you want to cite Sickels: Britton is a C+ and Iglesias is a C+. Adams is a B. Adams has much higher upside than a AAAA. If all you think Adams is a AAAA player, then you think he is not worth trading for. Britton and Iglesias wont get that deal done.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,907
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Post by nomar on Jan 12, 2013 19:17:34 GMT -5
I'd rather trade for Smoak and get a guy with a bit of potential as a backup than Kotchman or Overbay who are below average defensively now anyways. Smoak's price wont be high at all.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 12, 2013 19:38:32 GMT -5
I'd rather trade for Smoak and get a guy with a bit of potential as a backup than Kotchman or Overbay who are below average defensively now anyways. Smoak's price wont be high at all. I can see Smoak. Can anyone tell me their opinion of Mike Carp and why he might not be an even better choice from the M's? I honestly have never seen him play.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2013 15:54:12 GMT -5
what about tyler moore of the nats? he is a pinch hitter/ 4th outfielder for them and it probably would not take a lot to get him. he can play either corner of spot or 1b. although he strikes out alot, he hit 10 homers in just 156 at-bats. given every day playing time or around 450 at-bats, he could hit 30. its worth a shot if a good prospect isnt at stake.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jan 15, 2013 15:27:59 GMT -5
Jmei, instead of ripping my pick for a long term replacement at 1b for the Red Sox and who is currently in the system like I have. I admit it was outside the box but I wanted to find this kid a spot on the major league roster and now might be the time to train him. So what is your big pick from this roster? Let's see if your still missing something. I took a chance to fix a long term problem within our system.
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Post by jmei on Jan 15, 2013 16:09:38 GMT -5
Jacobs is 22, has yet to have a single at-bat in AA, and is at least a year and a half away from competing for a spot on the major league roster. Moreover, the position he is projected to play (LF) is currently filled by a Nava/Gomes platoon. If he continues to develop and proves he's good enough for the major leagues, he'll have every opportunity to make it at his current position.
Sometimes your minor league system just lacks the ability to fill a void at the major league level. That's certainly the case with the Red Sox and 1B-- the most viable long-term solutions at 1B currently in the organization are probably Shaw and Almanzar, neither of which should get your hopes up. Gomez is probably better than replacement level and Hassan might see some reps there, but that's about it. 1B will have to be filled through free agency and/or trade.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Jan 16, 2013 0:00:00 GMT -5
Jacobs is 22, has yet to have a single at-bat in AA, and is at least a year and a half away from competing for a spot on the major league roster. Moreover, the position he is projected to play (LF) is currently filled by a Nava/Gomes platoon. If he continues to develop and proves he's good enough for the major leagues, he'll have every opportunity to make it at his current position. Sometimes your minor league system just lacks the ability to fill a void at the major league level. That's certainly the case with the Red Sox and 1B-- the most viable long-term solutions at 1B currently in the organization are probably Shaw and Almanzar, neither of which should get your hopes up. Gomez is probably better than replacement level and Hassan might see some reps there, but that's about it. 1B will have to be filled through free agency and/or trade. I agree that it's far too soon to consider Jacobs for 1B. A year or two from now it may make sense, but there are too many moving parts to know for sure. For this same reason it is too early to declare that the 1B of the future will be filled from outside of the organization. Most first baseman play the position because they can hit and either failed at their previous position or didn't have an opening at their previous position. A year from now Brentz or Bogaerts may be the first baseman of the future (If Kalish rebounds, Jacoby re-signs, Bradley blossoms, Middlebrooks plays well and Iglesias/Drew stake claim to SS). Obviously that a lot of 'ifs' but there are likely some FA signings in there as well and if Bogaerts has a 'special' bat then he may be a great hitting gold glove first baseman a la Pujos (3B/LF), Gonzalez (3B), Miguel Cabrera (3B and back again), Youkilis (3B), etc. Then again they could all suck or blow out their knees giving us the chance to regress into pre-2001 Red Sox fandom again.
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Post by dmaineah on Jan 16, 2013 11:30:28 GMT -5
I'd rather trade for Smoak and get a guy with a bit of potential as a backup than Kotchman or Overbay who are below average defensively now anyways. Smoak's price wont be high at all. Smoak & potential, two words that have been stringed together for some time now. Yea, his price shouldn't be high. Pass
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Post by jioh on Jan 16, 2013 11:49:14 GMT -5
... if Bogaerts has a 'special' bat then he may be a great hitting gold glove first baseman a la Pujos (3B/LF), Gonzalez (3B), Youkilis (3B), etc.. Did the lefty Adrian Gonzalez play some 3b in backyard wiffleball?
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jan 16, 2013 19:26:06 GMT -5
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