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First Base for 2013 (and Beyond)
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Post by remember04 on Sept 27, 2012 11:51:55 GMT -5
I wonder how much Brandon Belt would cost. The Giants seem to have finally wised up to the fact that he's their best first baseman, but the way they've jerked him around for the last two years makes me think they don't value him enough. He's been a decent hitter this year (117 wRC+), and that's with a huge drop in power. Given that he hit for power at every minor league stop AND in his time in the majors last year, it seems likely that his power numbers will rebound a bit. He won't be eligible for arbitration until at least after next year (someone with better understanding of the nuances of service time would need to tell me whether it wouldn't be until after 2014). Anyone else have any thoughts on Belt? On the old site he was my choice because of his age. It means he's a part of our future. I don't think we have a legitimate shot at anything next year but after that we do. With our new found financial flexibility we can take on the rest of Barry Zito's contract by no means crippling us and expiring soon to lessen the cost in prospects. Yeah, that does seem kind of trade proposal-ish but well..... And I agree we should mention close to ready or ready blocked minor league guys of interest.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Sept 27, 2012 13:42:09 GMT -5
I wonder how much Brandon Belt would cost. The Giants seem to have finally wised up to the fact that he's their best first baseman, but the way they've jerked him around for the last two years makes me think they don't value him enough. He's been a decent hitter this year (117 wRC+), and that's with a huge drop in power. Given that he hit for power at every minor league stop AND in his time in the majors last year, it seems likely that his power numbers will rebound a bit. He won't be eligible for arbitration until at least after next year (someone with better understanding of the nuances of service time would need to tell me whether it wouldn't be until after 2014). Anyone else have any thoughts on Belt? On the old site he was my choice because of his age. It means he's a part of our future. I don't think we have a legitimate shot at anything next year but after that we do. With our new found financial flexibility we can take on the rest of Barry Zito's contract by no means crippling us and expiring soon to lessen the cost in prospects. Yeah, that does seem kind of trade proposal-ish but well..... And I agree we should mention close to ready or ready blocked minor league guys of interest. I would take Zito's contract if we traded for Belt, but i would rather just eat his contract and release him than give him a spot in the rotation. Either that or make him a long reliever. He had the worst SIERA in baseball last time I checked.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 27, 2012 14:46:47 GMT -5
This is crazy, I've just thought of this, so here's my answer, then call me maybe (I'm mean crazy). Make a good song. Many of the moves I would like to see this off-season are SHORT TERM. The player may help us for more than a year or two, but I wouldn't go into signing them thinking that would happen. Sign a rotation guy for 1 or 2 years buy not for longer. The same goes with first base. The cavalry is coming. Reinforcements will be here by the end of 2013 or in 2014. Here is the crazy part: 1) fire Booby V. 2) sign Kevin Youkilis for one year plus an optionYouk is an excellent 1st baseman (better than at 3rd), will see a lot of pitches driving up pitch counts (we missed that a lot), and could, just possibly, have one more good year in him. I think we could do A LOT worse and he would give us time to look at other options. There is NO way the White Sox will pick up his option! Steve, I think the chance of Youk being back here after what transpired earlier is negligible....with or without BV in tow. I don't think management or Youk will want to revisit that. Youk's performance has also dropped sharply over the past 2 years. He is no longer residing on Olympus because of his OBP. Time to move on with this one I say. BV must be taking happy pills if he honestly thinks he will return. IMO, this is a brave face in front of the circling sharks....women and children first. Management could not have more motivation for change. I'll bet a lot of work has been done from scrutinizing coaches to scouts to players to how they evaluate/do things. I suspect that this off-season and perhaps next are going to see radical changes that will provide us with excitement and hope for the future. At present that future appears a ways off. In the interim and absent acquisitions, I could see Gomez, some of Papi and even Linhares as part of the 1B bridge to that future. My only question would be if Papi, having experienced 2 championships, will be content to ride this out or decide to sell himself to a contender.
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Post by elguapo on Sept 27, 2012 15:13:02 GMT -5
Youk's performance has also dropped sharply over the past 2 years. He is no longer residing on Olympus because of his OBP. Youk's isoD this year is in line with his career average. His performance is off because his BABIP is .260 (.245! with CHI) against a career .321 and his batting average is at .232 against a career .283. I'm betting he'll bounce back to something like his 2011 performance, let's say .260 / .360 / .450, which is roughly as valuable as what you'd get from an Adam LaRoche type.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Sept 27, 2012 16:27:15 GMT -5
This is crazy, I've just thought of this, so here's my answer, then call me maybe (I'm mean crazy). Make a good song. Many of the moves I would like to see this off-season are SHORT TERM. The player may help us for more than a year or two, but I wouldn't go into signing them thinking that would happen. Sign a rotation guy for 1 or 2 years buy not for longer. The same goes with first base. The cavalry is coming. Reinforcements will be here by the end of 2013 or in 2014. Here is the crazy part: 1) fire Booby V. 2) sign Kevin Youkilis for one year plus an optionYouk is an excellent 1st baseman (better than at 3rd), will see a lot of pitches driving up pitch counts (we missed that a lot), and could, just possibly, have one more good year in him. I think we could do A LOT worse and he would give us time to look at other options. There is NO way the White Sox will pick up his option! Steve, I think the chance of Youk being back here after what transpired earlier is negligible....with or without BV in tow. I don't think management or Youk will want to revisit that. Youk's performance has also dropped sharply over the past 2 years. He is no longer residing on Olympus because of his OBP. Time to move on with this one I say. BV must be taking happy pills if he honestly thinks he will return. IMO, this is a brave face in front of the circling sharks....women and children first. Management could not have more motivation for change. I'll bet a lot of work has been done from scrutinizing coaches to scouts to players to how they evaluate/do things. I suspect that this off-season and perhaps next are going to see radical changes that will provide us with excitement and hope for the future. At present that future appears a ways off. In the interim and absent acquisitions, I could see Gomez, some of Papi and even Linhares as part of the 1B bridge to that future. My only question would be if Papi, having experienced 2 championships, will be content to ride this out or decide to sell himself to a contender. Probably right Ken about Youk, but not looking for a long-term solution. BV was a big problem for him. I still think we can compete next year if 1) we stay relatively healthy, and 2) our rotation is much better.
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Post by sarasoxer on Sept 27, 2012 18:49:56 GMT -5
Youk's performance has also dropped sharply over the past 2 years. He is no longer residing on Olympus because of his OBP. Youk's isoD this year is in line with his career average. His performance is off because his BABIP is .260 (.245! with CHI) against a career .321 and his batting average is at .232 against a career .283. I'm betting he'll bounce back to something like his 2011 performance, let's say .260 / .360 / .450, which is roughly as valuable as what you'd get from an Adam LaRoche type. Elguapo you may very well be right about a Youk bounce back and I hope for his sake that happens. He is a good guy, a hard worker, an intense competitor, a beloved dirt dog, and based on his body and apparent native athletic skills, an overachiever. He got the most out of his ability by dint of will and was loved for that in Boston. He is Mr. Everyman. He was a very integral part of a wondrous period for Sox fans. I think that his era is done. Bring him back at a Sox old-timers game 10 years from now and we will all stand and loudly cheer "YOUK" . The Sox have moved on....The next chapter is already being written.
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Post by onbase on Sept 27, 2012 20:39:22 GMT -5
If we can't have Votto, I don't care who's on first.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 2, 2012 8:54:25 GMT -5
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Post by elguapo on Oct 2, 2012 9:08:07 GMT -5
Met's want "a boatload" for him, probably including Brentz. At least they know how to talk up their trade bait.
I can't identify any boatloads under Sox control that I'd be willing to trade for Davis.
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steveofbradenton
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 2, 2012 9:32:43 GMT -5
Not much available in 1st baseman in 2014 either......
First basemen Todd Helton (40) Paul Konerko (38) Adam Lind (30) - $7MM club option with a $2MM buyout Kendrys Morales (30) Justin Morneau (33) Mike Morse (32) Mark Reynolds (30)
Notice two of these guys are on a potential list for us this year.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2012 9:46:13 GMT -5
The Mets wont get a boatload for him and they know it.
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Post by jmei on Oct 2, 2012 10:02:33 GMT -5
Ike Davis is the exact kind of asset the team should be targeting-- a buy-low opportunity on a young, toolsy, cost-controlled prospect. As long as a deal wouldn't require Doubront or a one of our top 4 ranked prospects, I'd be all for it (say, Brentz, Workman/Britton, and a reliever).
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2012 10:14:30 GMT -5
This is crazy, I've just thought of this, so here's my answer, then call me maybe (I'm mean crazy). Make a good song. Many of the moves I would like to see this off-season are SHORT TERM. The player may help us for more than a year or two, but I wouldn't go into signing them thinking that would happen. Sign a rotation guy for 1 or 2 years buy not for longer. The same goes with first base. The cavalry is coming. Reinforcements will be here by the end of 2013 or in 2014. Here is the crazy part: 1) fire Booby V. 2) sign Kevin Youkilis for one year plus an optionYouk is an excellent 1st baseman (better than at 3rd), will see a lot of pitches driving up pitch counts (we missed that a lot), and could, just possibly, have one more good year in him. I think we could do A LOT worse and he would give us time to look at other options. There is NO way the White Sox will pick up his option! His stats didnt pick up much in Chicago, but we definitely could do worse and we need someone who gets on base consistently and sees pitches (as you mentioned). If hes cheap it would be a solid move. Id still rather get a young guy heading into his prime like Ike Davis, but with Youk we wouldnt have to give up anybody.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Oct 2, 2012 10:23:21 GMT -5
Small sample size (19 games), but Youk's OPS as a 1B this year was .984
On his career his OPS is .050 higher as a 1B than as a 3B.
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Post by jdb on Oct 2, 2012 10:24:06 GMT -5
Agree with you Jmei. I would have no problem at all trading those guys for Davis. Sounds to me like Brentz ceiling is Davis right now. The splits are a concern but he had a higher OPS against LHPs than RHP in 2010. Even in a down year he has an .880 Ops on the road with 20 HRs. He will be 26 next year and entering his prime. Not to mention we need a LH bat. All our young hitters are RH.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 2, 2012 10:33:40 GMT -5
Small sample size (19 games), but Youk's OPS as a 1B this year was .984 On his career his OPS is .050 higher as a 1B than as a 3B. I think the real difference is very small, if any. Youk played first during his peak years. But it may be easier on his aging body.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 2, 2012 10:41:36 GMT -5
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Post by remember04 on Oct 2, 2012 12:54:56 GMT -5
The Mets wont get a boatload for him and they know it. Zack Wheeler for Carlos Beltran?
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 2, 2012 16:16:53 GMT -5
Not for nothing if your going to Detroit, maybe Victor Martinez might be possible without giving up too much. I stil don't understand giving up 3 prospects for him and letting him go in 1 and 1/2 years . Then giving up 3 more prospects for Agon. That was the beginning of the end of the Theo era.
You can trace it back to then. There was a hole in the minor leagues so Theo had to fill the gaps in the Red Sox with expensive free agents.
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Post by soxrchamps07 on Oct 2, 2012 16:46:15 GMT -5
Not for nothing if your going to Detroit, maybe Victor Martinez might be possible without giving up too much. I stil don't understand giving up 3 prospects for him and letting him go in 1 and 1/2 years . Then giving up 3 more prospects for Agon. That was the beginning of the end of the Theo era. You can trace it back to then. There was a hole in the minor leagues so Theo had to fill the gaps in the Red Sox with expensive free agents. Yea, becasue we didn't get Matt Barnes or Henry Owens back as compensation for losing V-mart. And as it stands now the three prospects we gave up 2 turned out to be busts and the other has compiled a 3.3 WAR over 3 seasons. Basically, we gave up a good season of pitching for 1 and 1/2 season of good hitting at a premium position while getting back two Top 5 prospects. Talk about getting screwed!
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Post by germanrsn on Oct 2, 2012 16:57:57 GMT -5
Is trading back for Anthony Rizzo an option for the Sox? Would the Cubs trade him and for what package?
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Post by remember04 on Oct 2, 2012 17:48:09 GMT -5
Is trading back for Anthony Rizzo an option for the Sox? Would the Cubs trade him and for what package? They recently traded for him so I don't think they'd trade him away and if they did it would be because somebody saw something they didn't like. I'd say that ship has sailed but they do have other seemingly blocked 1B prospects.
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Post by GyIantosca on Oct 2, 2012 18:03:49 GMT -5
Soxchamps07, That sounds all find and dandy but to me you have nothing until they make it buddy boy! And if they were busts why did we want Masterson back? You stats do nothing for me. Who said we got screwed? We had no more blue chips to make another move. 2 top five prospects this year can be nothing next year.. So put away the trumpet your blowing. Maybe take a zanax it might help also.
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Post by SlugLife on Oct 2, 2012 19:35:47 GMT -5
I really like this idea. 2 years, $25 million for a proven hitter who thrived in his time in Boston. I think the clubhouse and the lineup could use Victor Martinez.
As you said, it's hard to judge whether or not the Tigers consider him a spare part at this point or whether they would be looking for real value back in a trade.
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 2, 2012 19:50:48 GMT -5
Not for nothing if your going to Detroit, maybe Victor Martinez might be possible without giving up too much. I stil don't understand giving up 3 prospects for him and letting him go in 1 and 1/2 years . Then giving up 3 more prospects for Agon. That was the beginning of the end of the Theo era. You can trace it back to then. There was a hole in the minor leagues so Theo had to fill the gaps in the Red Sox with expensive free agents. Yea, becasue we didn't get Matt Barnes or Henry Owens back as compensation for losing V-mart. And as it stands now the three prospects we gave up 2 turned out to be busts and the other has compiled a 3.3 WAR over 3 seasons. Basically, we gave up a good season of pitching for 1 and 1/2 season of good hitting at a premium position while getting back two Top 5 prospects. Talk about getting screwed! Matt Barnes is probably out top pitching prospect barring what Rubby gives us. Henry Owens has had a great start to his professional career and, as a LH starter, shows promise as he moves up to Salem and beyond. Overall, a pretty good haul for V-Mart.
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