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Next year's manager
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Post by klostrophobic on Oct 5, 2012 1:57:48 GMT -5
I don't want anyone who has been associated with this bucket of a franchise the last five years managing the team.
Gimme Jim Leyritz ffs.
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Post by amfox1 on Oct 5, 2012 6:51:57 GMT -5
But, whoever we hire will ultimately be answerable to management if the team finishes say 78-84 or worse next season. We don't know who or how many free agents will be brought in but, if there are not a lot of acquisitions without expenditure of large dollars, we may well have another down year, record-wise. If we now hire someone other than JF, Farrell will be at the end of his contract with Toronto (unless he re-ups) and available at next year-end. In short, I think that Farrell is the easy and safe current choice. I don't think that Boston will execute that move if it makes an honest assessment of the team, its near-term prospects and its presumed incremental value of JF. Farrell is the obvious choice (FYI, I'm not saying he's my preferred choice - to be fair it's impossible to judge the efficacy of most potential managers - Valentine being an obvious exception because of his extensive and well-known history). Beyond that point, I totally disagree that the Red Sox will be back in the managerial market after next year if this team finishes below .500 in 2013. They won't, unless there is a total dysfunction a la Valentine or September Tito. This team is not likely to compete for a playoff spot in 2013, and the front office knows it (although they will never admit it). They are pointing towards 2014-2015. Therefore, the organization is not going to rush out to spend a majority of the windfall they received in the Punto trade this offseason. They will likely use the windfall over time to take advantage of selected opportunities to acquire frontline pitching from teams who need salary relief.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 5, 2012 7:39:20 GMT -5
This team is not likely to compete for a playoff spot in 2013, and the front office knows it (although they will never admit it). They are pointing towards 2014-2015. Ben came pretty close to saying that yesterday, not in so many words of course. On the other hand, with the new wild card system, 'competing for a playoff spot' is a much different ballgame than "expecting to win a playoff spot".
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Post by dmaineah on Oct 5, 2012 7:45:00 GMT -5
I heard the interview with Lucchino on the radio this morning and what I understood as the hiring process for the next Mgr to be is that Cherrington will decide which candidates to bring in to be interviewed but, a round table committee will make the final decision on who will be hired. I also got the feeling that Lucchino will have a "guiding" hand in that final decision. I was really hoping this decision would be left to Ben Cherrington. I also got the feeling that any decisions made on the makeup of the team would follow the same process.
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Post by elguapo on Oct 5, 2012 7:53:45 GMT -5
Realistically, Lucchino is not going away and any successful manager will have to be able to deal with him. Might as well figure that out before hiring.
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 5, 2012 9:31:00 GMT -5
But, whoever we hire will ultimately be answerable to management if the team finishes say 78-84 or worse next season. We don't know who or how many free agents will be brought in but, if there are not a lot of acquisitions without expenditure of large dollars, we may well have another down year, record-wise. If we now hire someone other than JF, Farrell will be at the end of his contract with Toronto (unless he re-ups) and available at next year-end. In short, I think that Farrell is the easy and safe current choice. I don't think that Boston will execute that move if it makes an honest assessment of the team, its near-term prospects and its presumed incremental value of JF. Farrell is the obvious choice (FYI, I'm not saying he's my preferred choice - to be fair it's impossible to judge the efficacy of most potential managers - Valentine being an obvious exception because of his extensive and well-known history). Beyond that point, I totally disagree that the Red Sox will be back in the managerial market after next year if this team finishes below .500 in 2013. They won't, unless there is a total dysfunction a la Valentine or September Tito. This team is not likely to compete for a playoff spot in 2013, and the front office knows it (although they will never admit it). They are pointing towards 2014-2015. Therefore, the organization is not going to rush out to spend a majority of the windfall they received in the Punto trade this offseason. They will likely use the windfall over time to take advantage of selected opportunities to acquire frontline pitching from teams who need salary relief. We don't want musical chairs anywhere from management on down to manager and pitching coach. Stability and continuity count and management has said as much. My feeling is that if ownership wants Farrell I would like to get him without giving significant compensation. If Toronto senses great urgency, it may sit back and wait for Midas to come knocking. That being the case, I might want to look elsewhere. Maybe I find a gem. If not and I am again dissatisfied next year, Farrell will be available without cost.
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Post by jioh on Oct 5, 2012 11:15:30 GMT -5
with Bucky Dent as bench coach?
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Oct 5, 2012 12:44:10 GMT -5
I don't think Farrell is worth waiting for if the Jays insist in anything more than the Red Sox got for Theo. In fact, offer those guys to the Jays, give them a couple of days to decide and then move on if they don't accept. There is so much to be done this offseason that the Red Sox don't need the distraction of negotiating on compensation to drag things out.
If Tito takes the Indians job, I hope that Alomar is hired. You can bring a strong bench coach to help support him, such Beyler.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 5, 2012 13:34:36 GMT -5
Like it or not, the manager of the Boston Red Sox is a key figure for the entire enterprise, not just the on-field product. Ownership absolutely should be part of the process. A guy coud be a great game manager, but if he can't handle the rest of working on Boston, it wouldn't work out. And, if the Sox are set up properly at all, Ben Cherington shouldn't be worrying about charitable appearances, etc, etc, or even really the press relations. So the other folks who are need to be part of the decision-making process.
The fact that (according to reports) the ownership was the primary voice for the disastrous choice of Valentine doesn't mean they can abdicate responsibility going forward. Just part of the deal working in Boston ...
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Post by dcri on Oct 5, 2012 14:40:26 GMT -5
I have no particular person in mind for Sox manager, although I am intrigued by Tek. I do think there are some attributes that anyone in this job should have. The manager of the Red Sox is a prominent person in the community, and must be able to handle himself in that role, and not do anything publicly that is embarrassing, or particularly controversial. Valentine failed that requirement right away when he publicly criticized Youk. I believe he was dead from then on. Francona was extremely effective in this role.
Modern managers must be good communicators, and have excellent people skills. Valentine did not have these skills, Francona was superb.
A manager should not over-manage a game, but his moves generally should make sense. If he is unorthodox, he better be good. Managing pitchers is the most important skill. This was not one of Francona's strong points. Valentine actually may have been better, although the results don't show it. Key skills are knowing when it is time to get a pitcher out of the game, and having a sense for the pitcher's frame of mind.
Finally, managers almost never should criticize players publicly. That poisons relations on the team. There is nothing wrong in acknowledging that a player made a bad play, or a bad pitch, but not in a critical, or demeaning way. However, a manager must have the ability of going to individual players and, if necessary, chewing their asses, but only in private.
These are but some of the skills a good manager should have.
Now, who among the candidates has them? I don't know.
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 5, 2012 18:51:02 GMT -5
In media-subdued Toronto Farrell did not offer much, if anything, re his player's open homophobic slur (leadership issue) or negative comments from a player(s) also questioning that leadership. Should not these issues weigh considerably on Sox management in doing its own due diligence or is management and are we just so glad to get rid of BV that we just jump on board with the first convenient, pretty face? What John Farrell said to the media regarding these things has absolutely no bearing on how good of a manager he is. All I care about is how he handled it internally. Escobar was suspended and the team held a closed-door meeting after the Vizquel comments during which Vizquel apologized. Chris I agree that what Farrell said or didn't say to the media in these instances is not relevant to his managerial performance and I did not mean to convey otherwise. And, maybe we can also dismiss the Toronto team's on-field performance for reasons beyond Farrell's control. What I was intending to convey was that the Escobar matter should never have gotten to the media. A player should never have been allowed to display a homophobic slur. The manager sets the tone and to some degree is responsible for the behavior of his players. Escobar shockingly apparently did not feel his actions would be deemed unacceptable. Beyond that the manager knew or should have known that this was occurring. If he did not see it, then his staff should have and made it known to him. Had it occurred in Boston, the not-so-subdued Boston media would have carved BV and the Sox ownership & management like a turkey. Likewise Vizquel apparently felt emboldened enough to publicly make derogatory remarks about his manager. Had a Sox player made such public statements ...it would have generated the same Boston media outcry as with an Escobar-like incident.... "Disrespect for the manager, lost the clubhouse, no leadership yada, yada" That Escobar was suspended I don't think reflects on Farrell greatly one way or the other. I understood that it was the team that had that authority and made that decision.
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Post by larrycook on Oct 5, 2012 19:42:37 GMT -5
I was really hoping this decision would be left to Ben Cherrington. I also got the feeling that any decisions made on the makeup of the team would follow the same process. I agree, I was kind of hoping that Larry would have learned his lesson with the Valentine debacle and stay more hands off this time around. I do think it is important that the manager search process is finished fairly quickly and does not drag on like it did last year. I would be willing to take a chance on Mills, who probably learned a ton from his time in Houston and which would make him a better manager this time around with us.
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Post by iakovos11 on Oct 5, 2012 19:54:59 GMT -5
And remember all the crazy Many being Many stuff that occurred under Tito's watch? If you have nutcases and assholes and homophobes on your team, sometimes there's not much you can do to prevent them from acting out and making an ass of themselves. Some guys are just like that - and can't help themselves. It's how you deal with this stuff. Has Farrell done a good job? I am not going to pretend to know enough about the details of what happened - esp. behind the scenes - to answer that. I think between him and Alomar and Ausmus and a few others, there are some good candidates.
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Post by sarasoxer on Oct 5, 2012 22:29:05 GMT -5
iakovos there is always the potential for an "outlier"...someone who does not conform to the accepted norm. Manny was certainly one.
Curiously tho, I can't recall a like situation with the MFYs. I think that they run something of a tighter ship where expectations are made starkly clear from ownership on down. The players probably do some policing too in the 'yankee way'.
My point has been that these Toronto matters (2 in a short period) at least raise a flag in the due diligence, managerial assessment process. Farrell has things to recommend him. He is pitching wise and the Sox are pitching poor (results), he knows Boston, management, expectations, people and process. He apparently was well-regarded when in Boston.
However, the fact that he was a confidant in and link to the Tito regime may also work against him as the Sox look to re-build over several years...out with the old, in with the new kind of thing.
Personally, I favor 'going in another direction'....make a clean break.
Again, there will be so many changes across the board that our heads will be spinning by spring.
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 5, 2012 22:43:59 GMT -5
If the Sox seriously consider anyone that is currently in their organization, I'm surprised as to why they didn't fire Valentine two weeks ago and give the guy a chance to at least be in that position. The Indians did it with Alomar, and now supposedly they could make a decision on next years manager by Monday
Even besides that fact, I find it absurd that they allowed Valentine to finish the season when it was clear to everyone (and I hope upper management) that Valentine was done in Boston a month ago. It seems, at least to me, by some of these actions, that they are banking on getting Farrell from Toronto, or someone else from outside the organization. Otherwise there's very little reason to not give someone a chance for the last few weeks, even with a bad roster
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Post by elguapo on Oct 5, 2012 22:59:10 GMT -5
I would love to see Maddux & Maddux. I think the Rangers losing could make that more likely.... The Sox should call that number first thing Monday.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 6, 2012 15:29:29 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: Francona to manage #Indians. Announcement likely Monday.
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Post by mredsox89 on Oct 6, 2012 15:31:29 GMT -5
I have to believe Sandy Alomar Jr. now becomes a top 3 choice for the Sox alongside Farrell and Maddux
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Post by brianthetaoist on Oct 6, 2012 15:58:52 GMT -5
Congrats to Tito and the Indians ...
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Post by remember04 on Oct 6, 2012 16:35:24 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: Francona to manage #Indians. Announcement likely Monday. And the Indians bullpen lives in fearHonestly good luck to Tito. I hope he enjoys having much less pressure on him this time around and just wish he had a better team to put on the field.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 6, 2012 17:34:24 GMT -5
I expect the Sox will walk away with John Farrell for a modest price. I don't think he's any great shakes as Jays manager. Vizquel, who's been in the bigs for an awfully long time, felt the team was too lax and mistakes kept getting made again and again. You'd have to wonder if something like that would happen in Boston. Farrell would be a better hire than Valentine was (no kidding), but I don't say that enthusiastically. I think Manny Acta, despite his two failures, is an intelligent progressive thinker, who might be a guy who can grow with a team, but honestly I don't see the search going that far - they may parade around a few guys, but it will quickly be decided that Farrell is the man.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 6, 2012 18:45:01 GMT -5
RT @twithersap: Sandy Alomar has been offered a spot on Francona's staff. #Indians
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Post by sibbysisti on Oct 6, 2012 19:14:56 GMT -5
I hope he declines and considers an offer to manage the Boston Red Sox.
After several years as player, coach, and interim manager with the Indians, why would he now want to be a coach under Terry? Terry would probably want his old college roomate, Brad Mills, as his bench coach. So what would he do, stick Sandy at first base?
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 6, 2012 19:33:52 GMT -5
Nick Cafardo @nickcafardo Red Sox source insists team has not yet begun managerial search
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Post by elguapo on Oct 6, 2012 20:58:34 GMT -5
It's at minimum courtesy for Francona to offer Alomar a spot on the coaching staff.
If Sox really have not begun managerial search they are lazy failures. But considering it has been reported that they began the search in September, Cafardo is full of it. Maybe they start making official phone calls on Monday.
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