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2014-15 offseason discussion
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Oct 17, 2014 12:33:31 GMT -5
Well, remember, the original plan when they traded for him was for Cespedes to play right field with Craig in left, but Cespedes said he didn't feel comfortable in right. Everything I read made it seem like this was only for 2014, but I wonder if his doing that opened the door for the Castillo-Betts CF-RF combo, and thus made Cespedes expendable. I'm inclined to agree that whatever defensive value he brings is severely hampered in left field at Fenway, whereas it'd be amplified in right.
Another reason why it's hard for me to see those three and Victorino all on the roster entering next season.
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Post by redsox4242 on Oct 17, 2014 12:45:37 GMT -5
Well, remember, the original plan when they traded for him was for Cespedes to play right field with Craig in left, but Cespedes said he didn't feel comfortable in right. Everything I read made it seem like this was only for 2014, but I wonder if his doing that opened the door for the Castillo-Betts CF-RF combo, and thus made Cespedes expendable. I'm inclined to agree that whatever defensive value he brings is severely hampered in left field at Fenway, whereas it'd be amplified in right. Another reason why it's hard for me to see those three and Victorino all on the roster entering next season. If Craig ever had to play in Right Field, we would be in trouble.
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 17, 2014 12:56:25 GMT -5
Well, remember, the original plan when they traded for him was for Cespedes to play right field with Craig in left, but Cespedes said he didn't feel comfortable in right. Everything I read made it seem like this was only for 2014, but I wonder if his doing that opened the door for the Castillo-Betts CF-RF combo, and thus made Cespedes expendable. I'm inclined to agree that whatever defensive value he brings is severely hampered in left field at Fenway, whereas it'd be amplified in right. Another reason why it's hard for me to see those three and Victorino all on the roster entering next season. If Craig ever had to play in Right Field, we would be in trouble. Hey now, check his 2014 UZR, DRS, and Inside Edge ratings! But, yeah, he shouldn't ever get extended time in Fenway's RF, and with guys like Castillo, Betts, Victorino, and even Nava around, I'm not sure that he ever will.
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Post by grandsalami on Oct 19, 2014 14:46:51 GMT -5
Cespedes on the block
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Post by redsox4242 on Oct 19, 2014 15:34:34 GMT -5
I don't mind this, we better get something in return. From what Cespedes has said, he has a desire to hit Free Agency.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Oct 19, 2014 20:58:02 GMT -5
Does betts have the arm to hold up in rf? Or will they slot him in left?
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 19, 2014 21:11:02 GMT -5
Does betts have the arm to hold up in rf? Or will they slot him in left? I really think good range is more important than a cannon arm in right in Fenway. Ideally you'd get both, but most players aren't Dwight Evans. Betts' arm is adequate at worst, and his range for someone with so little experience in the outfield was pretty excellent. I'd be fine with Betts slotted into right.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Oct 19, 2014 22:29:20 GMT -5
I don't mind this, we better get something in return. From what Cespedes has said, he has a desire to hit Free Agency. I'm fine with the Sox dealing Cespedes, but I doubt they'd get much in return for him. He's a rental for whoever would acquire him and he doesn't have the draft pick attached to him which lowers his trade value. I keep circling back to wondering what prospects the Sox could have gotten for Lester, potential top notch assets they could have had under their control for six seasons.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Oct 19, 2014 22:33:19 GMT -5
I don't get Cespedes. First we hear he wants to test free agency in Oakland. Then Coco Crisp gets an extension and we hear Cespedes talking about how he would be open to one. Then we hear he doesn't want to play CF. Then he gets traded to the Sox. Then he doesn't want to play in RF or CF. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and language issues can be the source of all kinds of unfortunate problems, but he seems to be a tad high maintenance. If even half of these things are true.
If Farrell wants him in RF get out there. Do your best. Focus on helping the team.
As much as I think Fenway should be a good park for him, I think he's gone this winter. For all sorts of reasons.
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Post by seadogfan on Oct 20, 2014 10:12:31 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of Chris Hernandez, the lefty who seems to fly under everyone's radar. He got to Pawtuckett relatively quickly based on where he was drafted from a good U of Miami program. Does everything asked of him as a starter and out of the bullpen. Pretty good WHIP, 4th in innings pitched in 2014 AAA. What do you think of his chances for the future? www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=t533&player_id=518787#/career/R/pitching/2014/ALL
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 20, 2014 10:15:48 GMT -5
What's wrong with keeping Cespedes at LF? It's not like the Red Sox have anyone else to play the position.
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Post by redsoxfan2 on Oct 20, 2014 10:17:26 GMT -5
I'm an idiot. This was going into 2014 list.
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Post by mattpicard on Oct 20, 2014 11:54:33 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 20, 2014 12:35:51 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox ...so, trade him to Seattle? Because it may just have gotten more difficult to send him anywhere else.
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Post by soxcentral on Oct 20, 2014 13:14:16 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox ...so, trade him to Seattle? Because it may just have gotten more difficult to send him anywhere else. Absolutely! That's exactly where I have him going in my offseason wish list.
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Post by stevedillard on Oct 20, 2014 13:29:37 GMT -5
Disappointing. Many of us assumed/wanted the Sox to get prospects for Lester/Lackey/Miller. When the Sox traded for Cespedes, Craig and Kelly we were told the Sox didn't want "chips/Prospects" (like the Cubs got with Russell) but wanted players who would impact the roster in 2015 for a quick rebuild. That philosphy was most extreme with Cespedes, who would be a free agent after 2015, and had a clause stating that we can't even get compensation when he walks.
Now, 5 weeks into the acquisition, they are disenchanted with him and realize he is less a part for 2015, as is a "chip" that they hope to flip before the season. One wonders if they could have gotten a better chip for Lester had they not gone for the quick fix that is now not a quick fix.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Oct 20, 2014 13:30:23 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox I find that move even more troubling. Jay-Z is all about getting one thing.....and it is not a player's comfort or winning. It is about dollars. Cespedes is going to go to free-agency now, count on it. He was and is one of their best trade-chips. I'd like to see him moved to make sure Mookie is in starting line-up for sure in 2015.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 20, 2014 13:35:48 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox I find that move even more troubling. Jay-Z is all about getting one thing.....and it is not a player's comfort or winning. It is about dollars. Cespedes is going to go to free-agency now, count on it. He was and is one of their best trade-chips. I'd like to see him moved to make sure Mookie is in starting line-up for sure in 2015. Getting the player the most $ is the agents job. Also, Seattle had a much better record than the Yankees last year, so the winning aspect worked out for Cano.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 20, 2014 13:43:09 GMT -5
Disappointing. Many of us assumed/wanted the Sox to get prospects for Lester/Lackey/Miller. When the Sox traded for Cespedes, Craig and Kelly we were told the Sox didn't want "chips/Prospects" (like the Cubs got with Russell) but wanted players who would impact the roster in 2015 for a quick rebuild. That philosphy was most extreme with Cespedes, who would be a free agent after 2015, and had a clause stating that we can't even get compensation when he walks. Now, 5 weeks into the acquisition, they are disenchanted with him and realize he is less a part for 2015, as is a "chip" that they hope to flip before the season. One wonders if they could have gotten a better chip for Lester had they not gone for the quick fix that is now not a quick fix. Yeah the trade deadline strategy is not looking too hot right now.
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Post by pedroelgrande on Oct 20, 2014 13:48:03 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox I find that move even more troubling. Jay-Z is all about getting one thing.....and it is not a player's comfort or winning. It is about dollars. Cespedes is going to go to free-agency now, count on it. He was and is one of their best trade-chips. I'd like to see him moved to make sure Mookie is in starting line-up for sure in 2015. He was always going to test the market, that had been stated as his objective.
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Post by James Dunne on Oct 20, 2014 14:26:37 GMT -5
Eh, I think people's expectations are too high for what the Red Sox could do at the deadline. They traded two months of Lester for a year and two months of Cespedes, plus a quite-valuable draft choice. They got a buy-low outfielder and talented-but-flawed young pitcher for Lackey, and they got a borderline Top-50 prospect for Miller. I wasn't in love with the Lackey deal at the time for a variety of reasons that I don't feel we need to rehash, but overall I thought it was a good load of talent.
The Red Sox biggest mistake at the deadline was probably not dealing Uehara. It seemed a little strange at the time, and given Koji's bad second half and the fact that I'd consider him unlikely to get a QO, hindsight has shown it to be the wrong move. Part of the "problem" though, if you want to call it that, is that most front offices around baseball have a) gotten smarter in general, and b) generally erred on the side of overvaluing their own prospects. That combination makes it really hard for a selling team to rip someone off. There are very few Teixeira-for-the-moon type deals like the Rangers pulled off years ago.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Oct 20, 2014 14:48:53 GMT -5
Chris Cotillo ?@chriscotillo 5m5 minutes ago Roc Nation (Jay-Z and Brodie Van Wagenen) now represents Yoenis Cespedes. #RedSox I find that move even more troubling. Jay-Z is all about getting one thing.....and it is not a player's comfort or winning. It is about dollars. Cespedes is going to go to free-agency now, count on it. He was and is one of their best trade-chips. I'd like to see him moved to make sure Mookie is in starting line-up for sure in 2015. I've got news for you. Cano is perfectly comfortable in Seattle, and it has been about winning. He helped with that aspect of it a lot. He cloned his line from NY except for the power: .314/.383/.516 (NY); .314/.382/.454 and added 6.4 wins above replacement to the Mariners, not out of line with what he's done in the past. They got their money's worth first year. The power thing might have as much to do with moving from that wind-blown short porch to one that has more resistance thanks to the marine air that rolls in just about every evening in the summer. As for Jay-Z and his agency representing Cespedes, that's just a feather in his cap - although I doubt he'd ever be caught dead wearing either. He's doing just what he was hired to do, represent his client's interest just as Freddie pointed out. If there's one thing the Mariners could really use, it's a right-handed power bat.
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Post by jclmontana on Oct 20, 2014 15:02:09 GMT -5
I am going to guess that Cespedes is kept until at least until spring training, but gone by the 2015 trade deadline. The information that Cespedes is available seems like an intentional leak to test the trade market, but I cannot see them trading Cespedes at this point without getting a clear "win." They pretty much need to get something really good for Cespedes, which is why I think they may have to keep him around through the beginning of the season.
With as bad as the outfield and offense was in 2014, and the front office's history of retaining assets/hoarding players/hedging their bets, they would have to acquire a clear position player upgrade (meaning outfield or 3b) for Cespedes to be traded this winter. They also need to not look like idiots for acquiring him in the first place.
I think Cespedes was acquired to be a steady, predictable, if somewhat flawed, offensive asset to help eliminate the many black holes in last year's line-up. If Cespedes is moved, they need to replace what Cespedes brings to the table.
However, if they don't move an outfielder this off-season, they do have to do something by the beginning of the season. Nava, Betts, Victorino, Craig, Cespedes, and Castillo all have to be accounted for.
I assume that Betts, Castillo, and Cespedes are starters going into spring training, and Nava is the 4th outfielder/platoon guy. That leaves Victorino and Craig.
I think if Craig shows he is productive in spring training and over his year-plus long swoon, he will be the starter in LF, and Cespedes will become expendable. I have to think healthy/productive Craig would be kept over anybody except Castillo and Betts; he has been too good historically and he is cost controlled for a few years.
If Craig sucks in spring training, then he either goes on the disabled list with a calf strain or becomes the 2015 Mike Carp (backup 1b, 5th outfielder, and prime DFA candidate).
I want Victorino to be healthy and productive, and a starter, but can we trust him to stay healthy? And he is only under contract for another year. If both Victorino and Craig are healthy and productive, Cespedes would be actively shopped, as well as Victorino.
I hope I am wrong and that Cespedes is part of a trade package for a solid number 2 starter this winter, that would solve a lot of problems at once. But I think Cespedes is a hedge against another historically bad offensive year and that they won't let him go without feeling like the offense is covered.
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Post by jimed14 on Oct 20, 2014 15:10:40 GMT -5
I am going to guess that Cespedes is kept until at least until spring training, but gone by the 2015 trade deadline. The information that Cespedes is available seems like an intentional leak to test the trade market, but I cannot see them trading Cespedes at this point without getting a clear "win." They pretty much need to get something really good for Cespedes, which is why I think they may have to keep him around through the beginning of the season. With as bad as the outfield and offense was in 2014, and the front office's history of retaining assets/hoarding players/hedging their bets, they would have to acquire a clear position player upgrade (meaning outfield or 3b) for Cespedes to be traded this winter. They also need to not look like idiots for acquiring him in the first place. I think Cespedes was acquired to be a steady, predictable, if somewhat flawed, offensive asset to help eliminate the many black holes in last year's line-up. If Cespedes is moved, they need to replace what Cespedes brings to the table. However, if they don't move an outfielder this off-season, they do have to do something by the beginning of the season. Nava, Betts, Victorino, Craig, Cespedes, and Castillo all have to be accounted for. I assume that Betts, Castillo, and Cespedes are starters going into spring training, and Nava is the 4th outfielder/platoon guy. That leaves Victorino and Craig. I think if Craig shows he is productive in spring training and over his year-plus long swoon, he will be the starter in LF, and Cespedes will become expendable. I have to think healthy/productive Craig would be kept over anybody except Castillo and Betts; he has been too good historically and he is cost controlled for a few years. If Craig sucks in spring training, then he either goes on the disabled list with a calf strain or becomes the 2015 Mike Carp (backup 1b, 5th outfielder, and prime DFA candidate). I want Victorino to be healthy and productive, and a starter, but can we trust him to stay healthy? And he is only under contract for another year. If both Victorino and Craig are healthy and productive, Cespedes would be actively shopped, as well as Victorino. I hope I am wrong and that Cespedes is part of a trade package for a solid number 2 starter this winter, that would solve a lot of problems at once. But I think Cespedes is a hedge against another historically bad offensive year and that they won't let him go without feeling like the offense is covered. There's no way we're trading Cespedes at the trade deadline. Or at least let's hope not, because that would mean another horrible season. It's either in the next couple months, or never IMO.
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Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Oct 20, 2014 15:14:30 GMT -5
I am going to guess that Cespedes is kept until at least until spring training, but gone by the 2015 trade deadline. The information that Cespedes is available seems like an intentional leak to test the trade market, but I cannot see them trading Cespedes at this point without getting a clear "win." They pretty much need to get something really good for Cespedes, which is why I think they may have to keep him around through the beginning of the season. With as bad as the outfield and offense was in 2014, and the front office's history of retaining assets/hoarding players/hedging their bets, they would have to acquire a clear position player upgrade (meaning outfield or 3b) for Cespedes to be traded this winter. They also need to not look like idiots for acquiring him in the first place. I think Cespedes was acquired to be a steady, predictable, if somewhat flawed, offensive asset to help eliminate the many black holes in last year's line-up. If Cespedes is moved, they need to replace what Cespedes brings to the table. However, if they don't move an outfielder this off-season, they do have to do something by the beginning of the season. Nava, Betts, Victorino, Craig, Cespedes, and Castillo all have to be accounted for. I assume that Betts, Castillo, and Cespedes are starters going into spring training, and Nava is the 4th outfielder/platoon guy. That leaves Victorino and Craig. I think if Craig shows he is productive in spring training and over his year-plus long swoon, he will be the starter in LF, and Cespedes will become expendable. I have to think healthy/productive Craig would be kept over anybody except Castillo and Betts; he has been too good historically and he is cost controlled for a few years. If Craig sucks in spring training, then he either goes on the disabled list with a calf strain or becomes the 2015 Mike Carp (backup 1b, 5th outfielder, and prime DFA candidate). I want Victorino to be healthy and productive, and a starter, but can we trust him to stay healthy? And he is only under contract for another year. If both Victorino and Craig are healthy and productive, Cespedes would be actively shopped, as well as Victorino. I hope I am wrong and that Cespedes is part of a trade package for a solid number 2 starter this winter, that would solve a lot of problems at once. But I think Cespedes is a hedge against another historically bad offensive year and that they won't let him go without feeling like the offense is covered. There's no way we're trading Cespedes at the trade deadline. Or at least let's hope not, because that would mean another horrible season. It's either in the next couple months, or never IMO. Winter meetings, or he walks with no comp
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