nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2014 17:57:16 GMT -5
We have no way of knowing if Craig will hit or if Kelly will continue to improve. But I think it's fair to look at the other deals we've made in comparison to the rest of the MLB and say that Cherington knows what he is doing.
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Post by mjammz on Jul 31, 2014 17:58:06 GMT -5
Ben Cherington on MLB Network
- Talks started this week with lots of prospect packages - Stressed they could have done VERY well in prosepct packages on both guys - "We have a good farm system and we have faith in the guys we have" - When Billy Beane first called, he missed he call and "to be honest I didn't see it, because most time these deals are centered on prospects and they just traded their best ones - Called Billy Beane smart and daring
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 31, 2014 17:58:12 GMT -5
A+ deadline for the Sox. Would end up being unbelievable is if Lester returns AND the Sox acquire Hamels. Try a deal like this for Cole Hamels Boston sends Henry Owens/Webster Joe Kelly and Mookie Betts Philadelphia sends Cole Hamels and future considerations Boston then resigns Lester for 5/115 - 5/120. Now that is one hell of a rotation. Two top tiered left handed pitchers and Buchholz if healthy. That's too much for Cole Hamels IMO
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 18:00:13 GMT -5
A+ deadline for the Sox. Would end up being unbelievable is if Lester returns AND the Sox acquire Hamels. Try a deal like this for Cole Hamels Boston sends Henry Owens/Webster Joe Kelly and Mookie Betts Philadelphia sends Cole Hamels and future considerations Boston then resigns Lester for 5/115 - 5/120. Now that is one hell of a rotation. Two top tiered left handed pitchers and Buchholz if healthy. Too bad we didn't trade for Price instead, we could have given up 1/10th as much.
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Post by mantush on Jul 31, 2014 18:00:49 GMT -5
If RAJ is still the Phillies' GM, he's going to want Betts, Owens, and Bogaerts.
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Post by oleary25 on Jul 31, 2014 18:02:33 GMT -5
I was in surgery for most of the trade deadline. When I woke up and saw Cespedes was traded to the Red Sox I thought I was literally still high off pain medication. I would've preferred we traded Lackey to the Pirates if they would've given us Bell, or Meadows. Great deadline though for the Red Sox and value. I had a sick thought though. Imagine if you will trading for Stanton in the off season, extending both Cespedes, and Stanton while resigning Lester, and signing a James Shields (however he pitches terribly at Fenway) or Masterson. Instant favorites in the AL East. It's a pipe dream, but hey you never know.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:13:34 GMT -5
By the way the Drew deal was a mistake he made to appease the manager. No proof but put pieces together that was a panic manager begging his GM to get him a SS and back door his prize prospect.So sick of listening to Lou today crying all day. Just curious what would the equal be of the Sox prospects to get Price? The Drew deal was a mistake based on the fact that we paid too much, but I don't really care about that fact because I'm not paying. The Drew deal wasn't a mistake based on the roster. At the time, the Red Sox still had hopes of turning it around and filling a big hole by upgrading the roster. Instead Drew came in unprepared and unable to hit for a lick and basically made an ass out of himself. Did it work? Not at all. Was signing Drew a panic move? I don't think so, it was a logical move to upgrade the team without making some panic trade.
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Post by 1mpaz10 on Jul 31, 2014 18:16:04 GMT -5
I was in surgery for most of the trade deadline. When I woke up and saw Cespedes was traded to the Red Sox I thought I was literally still high off pain medication. I would've preferred we traded Lackey to the Pirates if they would've given us Bell, or Meadows. Great deadline though for the Red Sox and value. I had a sick thought though. Imagine if you will trading for Stanton in the off season, extending both Cespedes, and Stanton while resigning Lester, and signing a James Shields (however he pitches terribly at Fenway) or Masterson. Instant favorites in the AL East. It's a pipe dream, but hey you never know. Honestly, I don't think I'd wanna overpay for a Shields or Masterson on the open market. Also, I'm curious to see how the Nava/Craig platoon works out long before I give any thought to Stanton. Furthermore, I think Stanton is very good, but slightly overvalued. I'm not so sure I'd wanna give up all the prospects it would take to get him. Finally, I just wanna put this Stanton thing to bed right now. The Marlins are 6 games out of the division and just bought at the deadline. STANTON WILL NOT BE GOING ANYWHERE!!!! Side Note: I hope your surgery went well.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:19:25 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help.
Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them.
It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once.
As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB.
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Post by 1mpaz10 on Jul 31, 2014 18:21:09 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help. Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them. It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once. As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this not trading of top prospects worked out for them so far?
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:21:11 GMT -5
I was in surgery for most of the trade deadline. When I woke up and saw Cespedes was traded to the Red Sox I thought I was literally still high off pain medication. I would've preferred we traded Lackey to the Pirates if they would've given us Bell, or Meadows. Great deadline though for the Red Sox and value. I had a sick thought though. Imagine if you will trading for Stanton in the off season, extending both Cespedes, and Stanton while resigning Lester, and signing a James Shields (however he pitches terribly at Fenway) or Masterson. Instant favorites in the AL East. It's a pipe dream, but hey you never know. Honestly, I don't think I'd wanna overpay for a Shields or Masterson on the open market. Also, I'm curious to see how the Nava/Craig platoon works out long before I give any thought to Stanton. Furthermore, I think Stanton is very good, but slightly overvalued. I'm not so sure I'd wanna give up all the prospects it would take to get him. Finally, I just wanna put this Stanton thing to bed right now. The Marlins are 6 games out of the division and just bought at the deadline. STANTON WILL NOT BE GOING ANYWHERE!!!! Side Note: I hope your surgery went well. I'd much rather overpay money, than overpay prospects to upgrade our rotation. Ideally we sign Lester than go after a guy like Jorge de la Rosa rather than the 3rd/4th/5th guys. But I'd much rather be agressive in the FA market for pitchers than overpay in prospects.
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taftreign
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Post by taftreign on Jul 31, 2014 18:24:10 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help. Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them. It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once. As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB. What we know is Boston received very good prospect package offers. We know Ben wanted pieces to help in 2015. With this knowledge we can't say Pittsburgh didn't offer Bell or Meadows for Lester or even Lackey. We just don't know.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:24:31 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help. Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them. It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once. As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't this not trading of top prospects worked out for them so far? You mean like the fact that they have 1 winning season in the last 20 years? Barely on pace for another one this season. So no, it hasn't worked out for them.
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Post by 1mpaz10 on Jul 31, 2014 18:27:59 GMT -5
/quote]I'd much rather overpay money, than overpay prospects to upgrade our rotation. Ideally we sign Lester than go after a guy like Jorge de la Rosa rather than the 3rd/4th/5th guys. But I'd much rather be agressive in the FA market for pitchers than overpay in prospects.[/quote]
I agree with this however the guys in FA are older and more expensive than guys you could trade for. Besides, the kind of pitchers your referring to would require giving a draft pick. Isn't that like giving prospects? Generally I would rather pay a guy, but not when he's only going to decline and cost a draft pick. So, I sometimes agree with this but it definitely depends on the player.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Jul 31, 2014 18:28:06 GMT -5
Drew gone, Xander at SS must pitch k's. This is hilarious We can Haiku that... J.D Drew is gone Xander Bogaerts at SS Must pitch many Ks
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:29:02 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help. Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them. It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once. As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB. What we know is Boston received very good prospect package offers. We know Ben wanted pieces to help in 2015. With this knowledge we can't say Pittsburgh didn't offer Bell or Meadows for Lester or even Lackey. We just don't know. It's true we don't know for sure but all we kept hearing about in the media was how the Pirates didn't want to give up Glasnow, Bell, Kingham, Taillon and Meadows. Sure it may have been posturing, but since they didn't trade any of them, I'm going to just assume it was true. I will laugh when the Pirates are watching the playoffs from home and at least 3 those 5 prospects never come close to reaching their expectations. Some times you need to be bold and assert yourself. Trading a prospect for a rental is a risk, but keeping a prospect and hoping they develop is just as big of a risk but more often than not, these prospects don't develop.
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Post by 1mpaz10 on Jul 31, 2014 18:31:24 GMT -5
[/quote]You mean like the fact that they have 1 winning season in the last 20 years? Barely on pace for another one this season.
So no, it hasn't worked out for them.[/quote]
Ok...but Huntington has only been the GM since 2007. Soooo, ya actually it's worked out great for them.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 31, 2014 18:36:14 GMT -5
I can't help but laugh at the Pirates. Got caught with their pants down in the middle of a rains storm with no help. Huntington is an idiot. A starting pitcher like Lester makes team at least as likely to make the WS as the Dodgers, but instead they sat back and watched the Cardinals significantly improve and surpass them. It's no wonder why that franchise has never won squat. I feel bad for Pirates fans. Such a joke that they wouldn't give up a guy like Bell + a lower end top 10 prospect to solidify their playoff standing and actually go for it for once. As a Red Sox fan, I'm happy. I like Cespedes more than Bell though so...I just can't help but laugh at the incompetence that is the Pittsburgh Pirates. Teams like them and the Royals are what is wrong with the MLB. What we know is Boston received very good prospect package offers. We know Ben wanted pieces to help in 2015. With this knowledge we can't say Pittsburgh didn't offer Bell or Meadows for Lester or even Lackey. We just don't know. To be fair, we actually dont know if we received very good prospect package offers.
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taftreign
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Post by taftreign on Jul 31, 2014 18:41:23 GMT -5
Didn't Ben say this himself during his press conference. Why say it if not true?
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taftreign
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Post by taftreign on Jul 31, 2014 18:43:06 GMT -5
Ben Cherington on MLB Network - Talks started this week with lots of prospect packages - Stressed they could have done VERY well in prosepct packages on both guys- "We have a good farm system and we have faith in the guys we have" - When Billy Beane first called, he missed he call and "to be honest I didn't see it, because most time these deals are centered on prospects and they just traded their best ones - Called Billy Beane smart and daring For Instance
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 18:48:13 GMT -5
Ok...but Huntington has only been the GM since 2007. Soooo, ya actually it's worked out great for them. By great you mean 1 winning season in the 7 years under Huntington and an overall record of 556-684 or a .448 winning percentage. Sorry. It hasn't worked out great. Huntington has done a good job at dragging the Pirates from consistent bottom feeder to fringe playoff team, but if that is what you call success then that's unfortunate. He had the chance to take the Pirates to another level this year. He had the chance to get them from a team battling with 5 other teams for 2 WC spots, to the clear favorite to win the division and a team with really good odds of making the WS. Instead he sat back and decided that the potential to win now isn't worth anything.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Jul 31, 2014 18:49:45 GMT -5
Didn't Ben say this himself during his press conference. Why say it if not true? 1. Professional Courtesy 2. Ticket Sales -- There are benefits in saying "we valued going for it 2015 over asking our fans to wait through rebuilding"; "We weren't offered an attractive package of prospects so we decided to go for it in 2015" might not go over quite as well. Not saying either of these thing is true, but there are reasons why Cherington might want to spin things.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2014 18:53:24 GMT -5
I'm just glad that the managers binkies were sent out of town. Suck on that JF. Is like a moneyball scene.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Jul 31, 2014 18:54:32 GMT -5
Didn't Ben say this himself during his press conference. Why say it if not true? Not that Ben hasn't earned our trust, but Ben and the experts here might disagree on what constitutes a great prospect offer. I feel like if any of the prospect packages we wanted were offered that Ben would have jumped on them. I think Ben is being polite by not publicly insulting the other GM's offers, while also not burying himself by naming the prospects in case one of them does well and we evaluate the trade negatively because of that hindsight. Then again I know nothing about the situation, but I'm just making the point that what he's saying is a great prospect offer might not be what would satisfy us, or make us pull the trigger instead of receiving what we received.
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Post by mjammz on Jul 31, 2014 19:01:59 GMT -5
Ben Cherington on MLB Network - Talks started this week with lots of prospect packages - Stressed they could have done VERY well in prosepct packages on both guys- "We have a good farm system and we have faith in the guys we have" - When Billy Beane first called, he missed he call and "to be honest I didn't see it, because most time these deals are centered on prospects and they just traded their best ones - Called Billy Beane smart and daring For Instance Yes Ben said that, but who knows what that means to the general public. Im sure any prospect package they got back people would be complaining about for one reason or another.
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