SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Trade for Cole Hamels
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jul 24, 2015 8:37:40 GMT -5
I'd gladly take Hamels as its a move for the future. Saying the cost will be more now than in the offseason is foolish. One, you don't know that it's just an assumption. Two and most importantly, if he's traded now then he wouldn't be available in the offseason so there's nothing to compare it to.
I just can't envision a trade I'd be too happy with. Hamels is great but the age is wrong and this team isn't one piece away. If Owens could be the center piece with lower level guys then that'd be fine but including Margot, Devers, Moncada and any of the guys better who've already made their MLB debuts isn't smart.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 24, 2015 9:07:45 GMT -5
Trying to envision a Hamels trade that works for both teams at this point. Personally, I don't think he's being traded until the offseason and I don't think he's being traded to BOS. I'm thinking the parameters would be Johnson, Castillo, Marrero and an A-ball lottery ticket (thinking Callahan, not a top-100 prospect). I think we have enough depth at OF, LHSP and SS to give up all three. Castillo could be given a real chance to shine in the majors and his contract effectively offsets some of the financial risk for Hamels. Johnson slots into Hamels' spot in the rotation and Marrero can take over 2B in the majors or be PHI's utility man. Also, I would want PHI to pick up enough of Hamels' contract to make it dollar neutral (Hamels vs. Castillo) this year. Hamels will be owed approx $9mm for the rest of the year, plus $23.5mm in 2016-2018, plus his $20mm option/$6mm buyout in 2019 (assuming 400IP option is not triggered). I would consider upgrading the deal to Margot, but I would want PHI to kick in more luxury tax relief this year. I would still rather trade Johnson than Owens, due to upside. I'm not advocating for a Hamels trade, but just thinking about the parameters. I still think the Red Sox should sell off tradeable pieces to get under the luxury tax this year. Now that Stark is floating a CHC Castro/Baez ++ for Hamels trade, I think we can revisit my proposal to see if it is in the ballpark. I think it is. Castro is essentially Rusney (big contract, prospect promise unfulfilled) - he is owed $37mm over the next four years versus $43mm for Castillo. Baez has a huge ceiling but has some plate discipline issues; he's supposed to start rehabbing from his broken finger this week. Personally, I like the CHC offer slightly better than my proposal but that also means trading Hamels in the NL.
|
|
|
Post by taftreign on Jul 24, 2015 10:00:39 GMT -5
Trying to envision a Hamels trade that works for both teams at this point. Personally, I don't think he's being traded until the offseason and I don't think he's being traded to BOS. I'm thinking the parameters would be Johnson, Castillo, Marrero and an A-ball lottery ticket (thinking Callahan, not a top-100 prospect). I think we have enough depth at OF, LHSP and SS to give up all three. Castillo could be given a real chance to shine in the majors and his contract effectively offsets some of the financial risk for Hamels. Johnson slots into Hamels' spot in the rotation and Marrero can take over 2B in the majors or be PHI's utility man. Also, I would want PHI to pick up enough of Hamels' contract to make it dollar neutral (Hamels vs. Castillo) this year. Hamels will be owed approx $9mm for the rest of the year, plus $23.5mm in 2016-2018, plus his $20mm option/$6mm buyout in 2019 (assuming 400IP option is not triggered). I would consider upgrading the deal to Margot, but I would want PHI to kick in more luxury tax relief this year. I would still rather trade Johnson than Owens, due to upside. I'm not advocating for a Hamels trade, but just thinking about the parameters. I still think the Red Sox should sell off tradeable pieces to get under the luxury tax this year. Now that Stark is floating a CHC Castro/Baez ++ for Hamels trade, I think we can revisit my proposal to see if it is in the ballpark. I think it is. Castro is essentially Rusney (big contract, prospect promise unfulfilled) - he is owed $37mm over the next four years versus $43mm for Castillo. Baez has a huge ceiling but has some plate discipline issues; he's supposed to start rehabbing from his broken finger this week. Personally, I like the CHC offer slightly better than my proposal but that also means trading Hamels in the NL. I don't know about that. I see a fair difference between Rusney and Castro. First of all Castro is a proven producer at the MLB level which is something we still have yet to see from Castillo. Secondly Castro is still 3 years younger than Castillo at 25 to 28. Third Castro arguably has greater defensive value. I'd rather have Castro vs Castillo as a GM because there's just more value there and I'm more certain of what I'm getting. Edit: Just looked up on fangraphs and this years -0.7 WAR isn't comforting but there has been enough success for me to still see this as small sample size performance and not the norm. Thinking about this more so and if I'm the Phillies I'm not interested in either of those deals. I'd need another prospect in addition or a better replacement for Castro or Castillo.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 10:24:48 GMT -5
I'd gladly take Hamels as its a move for the future. Saying the cost will be more now than in the offseason is foolish. One, you don't know that it's just an assumption. Two and most importantly, if he's traded now then he wouldn't be available in the offseason so there's nothing to compare it to. I just can't envision a trade I'd be too happy with. Hamels is great but the age is wrong and this team isn't one piece away. If Owens could be the center piece with lower level guys then that'd be fine but including Margot, Devers, Moncada and any of the guys better who've already made their MLB debuts isn't smart. Hamels will be 9 months older when he's useful to the Re Sox. Other teams would probably be willing to pay more to get something out of this season from him. They shouldn't be competing with them.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,843
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 10:24:59 GMT -5
Trying to envision a Hamels trade that works for both teams at this point. Personally, I don't think he's being traded until the offseason and I don't think he's being traded to BOS. I'm thinking the parameters would be Johnson, Castillo, Marrero and an A-ball lottery ticket (thinking Callahan, not a top-100 prospect). I think we have enough depth at OF, LHSP and SS to give up all three. Castillo could be given a real chance to shine in the majors and his contract effectively offsets some of the financial risk for Hamels. Johnson slots into Hamels' spot in the rotation and Marrero can take over 2B in the majors or be PHI's utility man. Also, I would want PHI to pick up enough of Hamels' contract to make it dollar neutral (Hamels vs. Castillo) this year. Hamels will be owed approx $9mm for the rest of the year, plus $23.5mm in 2016-2018, plus his $20mm option/$6mm buyout in 2019 (assuming 400IP option is not triggered). I would consider upgrading the deal to Margot, but I would want PHI to kick in more luxury tax relief this year. I would still rather trade Johnson than Owens, due to upside. I'm not advocating for a Hamels trade, but just thinking about the parameters. I still think the Red Sox should sell off tradeable pieces to get under the luxury tax this year. Now that Stark is floating a CHC Castro/Baez ++ for Hamels trade, I think we can revisit my proposal to see if it is in the ballpark. I think it is. Castro is essentially Rusney (big contract, prospect promise unfulfilled) - he is owed $37mm over the next four years versus $43mm for Castillo. Baez has a huge ceiling but has some plate discipline issues; he's supposed to start rehabbing from his broken finger this week. Personally, I like the CHC offer slightly better than my proposal but that also means trading Hamels in the NL. I love this idea. I was thinking something similar including Cecchini who I think is a good change of scenery candidate that another team may have interest in as an upper level add-in with upside.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,843
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Jul 24, 2015 10:27:41 GMT -5
I'd gladly take Hamels as its a move for the future. Saying the cost will be more now than in the offseason is foolish. One, you don't know that it's just an assumption. Two and most importantly, if he's traded now then he wouldn't be available in the offseason so there's nothing to compare it to. I just can't envision a trade I'd be too happy with. Hamels is great but the age is wrong and this team isn't one piece away. If Owens could be the center piece with lower level guys then that'd be fine but including Margot, Devers, Moncada and any of the guys better who've already made their MLB debuts isn't smart. Hamels will be 9 months older when he's useful to the Re Sox. Other teams would probably be willing to pay more to get something out of this season from him. They shouldn't be competing with them. Houston will be out on Hamels now. They might want to go AL or prefer to send him to a team that isn't already a contender like LA. Who knows what RAJ is thinking. You don't have to force the issue. We offer what we think is fair. They take it, great, they don't, we walk. No harm done as log as you aren't in a war.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Jul 24, 2015 10:55:04 GMT -5
Exactly Nomar... To make assumptions and not stay in talks on a guy because of them is how things happen that illicit comments like "if I knew we could get him for that" and questions like "how'd they get him for that?"
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 11:01:54 GMT -5
Exactly Nomar... To make assumptions and not stay in talks on a guy because of them is how things happen that illicit comments like "if I knew we could get him for that" and questions like "how'd they get him for that?" They have stayed in talks for more than a year. They'll probably stay talking until he's traded, if ever. You aren't really asking for anything.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Jul 25, 2015 15:45:04 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 48s48 seconds ago The five teams to express recent interest in #Phillies’ Hamels, according to sources: #Dodgers, #Cubs, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Jul 25, 2015 17:19:01 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 48s48 seconds ago The five teams to express recent interest in #Phillies’ Hamels, according to sources: #Dodgers, #Cubs, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants. Phew....
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,843
Member is Online
|
Post by nomar on Jul 25, 2015 17:38:15 GMT -5
If he finishes this no hitter RAJ will start asking for the moon. I just hope he isn't still a Philly next week.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2015 17:48:37 GMT -5
Kind of ironic his next start could be in a Cubs uniform.
|
|
|
Post by taftreign on Jul 25, 2015 17:49:47 GMT -5
If he finishes this no hitter RAJ will start asking for the moon. I just hope he isn't still a Philly next week. Seriously though, you can't make this stuff up! Hamels struggles in multiple starts and right before the deadline he throws a no-hitter. I love baseball though because of this.
|
|
|
Post by ray88h66 on Jul 25, 2015 17:52:39 GMT -5
If he finishes this no hitter RAJ will start asking for the moon. I just hope he isn't still a Philly next week. Seriously though, you can't make this stuff up! Hamels struggles in multiple starts and right before the deadline he throws a no-hitter. I love baseball though because of this. Have to give Hamels credit for knowing himself. He asked for an extra day between starts to have an extra side session to work on his mechanics.
|
|
|
Post by arzjake on Jul 25, 2015 18:27:40 GMT -5
Who said Hamels ain't an Ace?
|
|
|
Post by ray88h66 on Jul 25, 2015 18:43:56 GMT -5
No pitcher has pitched a no hitter and been traded before their next start. I think history is about to be made.
Best tidbit from the game for me. Hamels pitch for the second out in the 9th, after more than120 pitches was 96 MPH. Some guys have another level that stats will never be able to measure.
|
|
|
Post by James Dunne on Jul 25, 2015 20:28:26 GMT -5
No pitcher has pitched a no hitter and been traded before their next start. I think history is about to be made. Best tidbit from the game for me. Hamels pitch for the second out in the 9th, after more than120 pitches was 96 MPH. Some guys have another level that stats will never be able to measure. Miles per hour is a stat.
|
|
|
Post by ray88h66 on Jul 25, 2015 20:44:52 GMT -5
No pitcher has pitched a no hitter and been traded before their next start. I think history is about to be made. Best tidbit from the game for me. Hamels pitch for the second out in the 9th, after more than120 pitches was 96 MPH. Some guys have another level that stats will never be able to measure. Miles per hour is a stat. Thanks for the info. What do stats say about 3rd time through the order, and pitchers with 120 plus pitches? I need two more. I told my wife at least 3 stat guys would dis me.
|
|
|
Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 25, 2015 21:16:29 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal 48s48 seconds ago The five teams to express recent interest in #Phillies’ Hamels, according to sources: #Dodgers, #Cubs, #Rangers, #Yankees, #SFGiants. Best news of the day.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2015 8:59:49 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Multiple Phillies talent elevators believe Margot could "be the primary piece" for Hamels. t.co/44DpTbckvS”
|
|
redsox04071318champs
Veteran
Always hoping to make my handle even longer...
Posts: 15,671
Member is Online
|
Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 26, 2015 9:04:17 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Multiple Phillies talent elevators believe Margot could "be the primary piece" for Hamels. t.co/44DpTbckvS” Shocking. Never would have guessed that.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Jul 26, 2015 9:33:52 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that.
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2015 9:48:32 GMT -5
“@jeffpassan: Industry sentiment has Rangers as favorites for Cole Hamels. Long-term motivation, prospects to swing a deal and Hamels can't block trade.”
|
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 26, 2015 10:15:00 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. Count me in. I'm usually patient with the development of our kids and system, but if we REALLY are wanting to be in the race next season, we need TWO and not one upgrade in our rotation. Hamels would be a great fit at the top along with another starter (maybe Zimmerman or Samarjia). Now if 2016 is not going to be all in, hold off. In many ways we are somewhat deciding the short term future (2016) over the remainder of 2015. I can see it going either way, but if 2016 is a goal.....picking up Hamels and sacrificing Margot works for me.
|
|
|
Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2015 10:19:27 GMT -5
Who said Hamels ain't an Ace? I do. Never was, never has been. If you're talking no-hitters, Buchholz threw one in his second start. Hamels has never won more than 17 games (Buchholz-same), even for a 102-win team, and has a career 3.4 ERA in an era of declining offense. Not even close, by my definition.
|
|
|