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Trade for Cole Hamels
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Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2015 10:22:04 GMT -5
No pitcher has pitched a no hitter and been traded before their next start. I think history is about to be made. Best tidbit from the game for me. Hamels pitch for the second out in the 9th, after more than120 pitches was 96 MPH. Some guys have another level that stats will never be able to measure. Miles per hour is a stat. In all fairness, it's a datum not a statistic.
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Post by telson13 on Jul 26, 2015 10:28:42 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. Agreed, but I'd expect some salary relief in some form, be it taking on Victorino or Rusney Castillo and/or adding some bucks. Margot/Rusney for Hamels might actually be a good trade for both teams.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 26, 2015 10:37:21 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. If the Sox strongly feel that Margot would be a core piece on the 2017 - 2020 teams then they shouldn't part with him or anybody else they feel strongly about. They need to keep their best young talent, be patient, and let it develop. Trading these guys away doesn't help that cause. I'd rather see the Sox use free agency then surrender young talent. If they have to take their lumps over the next couple of years so be it, but don't give up core pieces.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2015 10:57:04 GMT -5
Cueto off the market. Probably a good thing because our interest in him made no sense to me.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 26, 2015 10:58:16 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. Agreed - or even Margot and Johnson and a sub-13 prospect, depending on how much salary they throw in.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2015 11:09:49 GMT -5
I'd rather not give up Margot and Johnson for Hamels.
At the same rate, having Hamels, Rodriguez, Johnson and Owens may be a little too much in the lefty department.
Personally I'm hoping for Carrasco. He's the best case scenario for our org right now.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 26, 2015 12:29:55 GMT -5
I don't know why people keep thinking we're going to be competitive in 2016. When you look at it that way, trading for Hamels still does not make sense. We should be selling off spare parts and stock piling prospects. Not delusionally thinking we're going to be good again next year.
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Post by soxfan2015 on Jul 26, 2015 12:35:07 GMT -5
I don't know why people keep thinking we're going to be competitive in 2016. When you look at it that way, trading for Hamels still does not make sense. We should be selling off spare parts and stock piling prospects. Not delusionally thinking we're going to be good again next year. I wanna know why you think we don't have a chance next year.. Don't see any reason why we wouldn't
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 26, 2015 12:37:58 GMT -5
Assuming the Sox do not get an ace in a trade now, the two FA pitchers who interest me the most are Cueto and Price. Price is about to be 30, but he is an incredibly durable pitcher who has gotten better over time. I think he probably has at least five more years of premium pitching ahead, assuming no serious injuries.
Cueto is a little younger and it will be interesting to see how he does with KC the rest of this season and in the post-season.
I will not be completely surprised if Hamels winds up with the Sox, although right now it doesn't look very likely.
My first choice of a deal would be one that unloaded some expensive under-performing players for a power-hitting outfielder, and/or a good-hitting 1B.
I am dubious that the Sox are going to get a young cost-controlled really good pitcher, except possibly in a deal with San Diego in which the Sox take on one of those outfielders, and perhaps another pitcher.
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sdl
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Post by sdl on Jul 26, 2015 13:16:16 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. I don't want to lose Margot, but I sure as hell don't want to lose Devers and Owens and Barnes in the same deal. Hamels' no-no is going to raise RAJ's asking price. Margot, Cecchini, Castillo, Sean Coyle and Michael Kopech I could live with, but we would have to get a player back from the Phillies along with Hamels. Colin Kleven would be a great piece to add to our farm system.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 26, 2015 13:22:30 GMT -5
I'm generally pretty anti-Hamels, but if all it takes is Margot and secondary pieces (read: prospects outside the top 13), I would probably go for that. Agreed - or even Margot and Johnson and a sub-13 prospect, depending on how much salary they throw in. I would do a Johnson, Margot and a lesser prospect in two seconds without the Phils eating a dime!! I think we all know that's not going to happen. The Phillies want top notch elite prospects, which is why a year later they are still trying to trade Hamels.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 26, 2015 15:09:41 GMT -5
I don't know why people keep thinking we're going to be competitive in 2016. When you look at it that way, trading for Hamels still does not make sense. We should be selling off spare parts and stock piling prospects. Not delusionally thinking we're going to be good again next year. I wanna know why you think we don't have a chance next year.. Don't see any reason why we wouldn't The pitching and defense is still really bad. And of course, there is Farrell still around in all likelihood losing the games that are winnable. We also don't really even have a first baseman.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 26, 2015 15:11:54 GMT -5
I wanna know why you think we don't have a chance next year.. Don't see any reason why we wouldn't The pitching and defense is still really bad. And of course, there is Farrell still around in all likelihood losing the games that are winnable. We also don't really even have a first baseman. I bet there will be changes between now and the start of 2016.
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nomar
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Post by nomar on Jul 26, 2015 15:13:01 GMT -5
Hard to see Farrell sticking around, for one.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2015 15:37:44 GMT -5
The Texas Rangers and Los Angeles Dodgers have emerged over the weekend as the likely favorites to trade for Philadelphia Phillies ace Cole Hamels, multiple sources told ESPN.com. The Phillies also continue to discuss Hamels with at least four other teams -- theChicago Cubs, New York Yankees, San Francisco Giants and Boston Red Sox, a source said. However, those teams are said to have had more trouble matching up on a potential deal than the Dodgers or Rangers.Sources say they would be surprised if a trade was completed before Tuesday, even in the wake of Hamels'no-hitter Saturday against the Cubs. "I doubt it happens quick," said an official of one team that has spoken with the Phillies. The Rangers and Dodgers both had scouts in attendance at Hamels' no-hitter, as did the Yankees, Giants,Houston Astros, Toronto Blue Jaysand several other clubs. But other than Texas and Los Angeles, those teams were described as doing their "due diligence" in monitoring the market for the 31-year-old Hamels. Both the Rangers and Dodgers view Hamels as an attractive alternative to this winter's deep class of free-agent aces, because he is under contract for three more years after this season and has a team or vesting option for a fourth season. The guaranteed portion of his contract runs through only his age-34 season -- whereas a group of free agents in or approaching their 30s, such as David Price, Johnny Cueto and Zack Greinke, will be looking for deals that take them into their late 30s. espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/13322630/texas-rangers-los-angeles-dodgers-favorites-trade-cole-hamels-philadelphia-phillies
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 26, 2015 15:38:25 GMT -5
I wanna know why you think we don't have a chance next year.. Don't see any reason why we wouldn't The pitching and defense is still really bad. And of course, there is Farrell still around in all likelihood losing the games that are winnable. We also don't really even have a first baseman. yes, same could be said about the sox in 2013.. and about the yankees this year... Who would have thought tex and a-rod would be playing this well?
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 26, 2015 16:10:38 GMT -5
We have such a black hole at 3B and 1B, and pitching, it just doesnt really make sense to buy just to placate the fanbase. Thats just kicking the can down the road. This team doesnt have just a few issues, there are a lot of major question marks that a free agent or two simply cannot fix.
We need to be patient and build the right way. Use more of our money to lock down our own guys rather than gamble on risky free agents that havent played here. Thats just my take.
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Post by ctfisher on Jul 26, 2015 16:12:46 GMT -5
I wanna know why you think we don't have a chance next year.. Don't see any reason why we wouldn't The pitching and defense is still really bad. And of course, there is Farrell still around in all likelihood losing the games that are winnable. We also don't really even have a first baseman. Well we have a solid core with a bunch of guys that are gonna get better, and this roster is probably going to look significantly different next year. Not to mention I think there's a reasonably good chance that Farrell gets let go this offseason, I think he's a much more reasonable scapegoat than Cherington for this mess
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Post by jmei on Jul 26, 2015 16:42:56 GMT -5
The presence of black holes is actually a good sign. It's easier to rebuild a team with top-tier talent (like Betts, Bogaerts, Pedroia, etc.) but also black holes than it is to rebuild a roster that is thoroughly mediocre top to bottom. Replace some of those black holes with even average regulars (either through external additions or through expected regression to the mean from existing players) and you can see a quick turnaround, a la the 2013 Red Sox.
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sdl
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Post by sdl on Jul 26, 2015 17:19:56 GMT -5
Agreed - or even Margot and Johnson and a sub-13 prospect, depending on how much salary they throw in. I would do a Johnson, Margot and a lesser prospect in two seconds without the Phils eating a dime!! I think we all know that's not going to happen. The Phillies want top notch elite prospects, which is why a year later they are still trying to trade Hamels. Lesser prospect=Sean Coyle. He's a Philadelphia native and I know his name has been mentioned by the Philly media. Margot, Castillo or JBJ, Coyle and Kopech. We should get another player besides Hamels. I'd look at Colin Kleven or Matt Imhof. Can't see why RAJ would've needed Swihart. Phillies have two great C prospects in Jason Knapp and Willians Astudillo.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jul 26, 2015 17:41:22 GMT -5
The presence of black holes is actually a good sign. It's easier to rebuild a team with top-tier talent (like Betts, Bogaerts, Pedroia, etc.) but also black holes than it is to rebuild a roster that is thoroughly mediocre top to bottom. Replace some of those black holes with even average regulars (either through external additions or through expected regression to the mean from existing players) and you can see a quick turnaround, a la the 2013 Red Sox. We're stuck with Sandoval at third, Rusney is getting paid 70 mil and there aren't that many great first baseman available. There are some good pitchers but they'll be expensive and we may not want to go over the luxury cap with a risky signing if there is a good chance we're bad again anyway. We also haven't even gotten started on what to do with the bullpen or ortiz/Hanley. I know this is a thread about Hamels but all these are reasons we should not trade for him.
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Post by jmei on Jul 26, 2015 18:28:20 GMT -5
Sandoval is extremely unlikely to be sub-replacement level again, Castillo is likely to be useful as at least a bench player, and they don't need a great first baseman, just an average one. Bullpens are the easiest part of the roster to rebuild, Ortiz is likely to bounce back some, and Hanley's defense has noticeably improved.
The biggest mistake you can make is to assume the next season will proceed like the last one will. Here is where I point out that both Fangraphs and BP project the Red Sox to be only of the top six or seven tams in the league next year. I'm not saying that they don't have problems, but they're far from insurmountable.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 27, 2015 11:42:00 GMT -5
Sandoval is extremely unlikely to be sub-replacement level again, Castillo is likely to be useful as at least a bench player, and they don't need a great first baseman, just an average one. Bullpens are the easiest part of the roster to rebuild, Ortiz is likely to bounce back some, and Hanley's defense has noticeably improved. The biggest mistake you can make is to assume the next season will proceed like the last one will. Here is where I point out that both Fangraphs and BP project the Red Sox to be only of the top six or seven tams in the league next year. I'm not saying that they don't have problems, but they're far from insurmountable. That is a good take of the current state of the Red Sox. This year seems to be a year in which everything that can go wrong goes wrong. The amount of players having a major down year all at the same time is surely not likely to happen again next year. I feel that if we can add a true #1 pitcher for next year that we can be a contender.
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Post by taftreign on Jul 27, 2015 20:57:54 GMT -5
If the Phillies can get C Jorge Alfaro, RHP Luis Ortiz and OF Nick Williams (all prospects being discussed as possibilities along with Chi Chi Gonzalez and Luis Brinson) for Hamels they will have done well and should pounce on it.
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radiohix
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Post by radiohix on Jul 28, 2015 1:19:00 GMT -5
Sandoval is extremely unlikely to be sub-replacement level again, Castillo is likely to be useful as at least a bench player, and they don't need a great first baseman, just an average one. Bullpens are the easiest part of the roster to rebuild, Ortiz is likely to bounce back some, and Hanley's defense has noticeably improved. The biggest mistake you can make is to assume the next season will proceed like the last one will. Here is where I point out that both Fangraphs and BP project the Red Sox to be only of the top six or seven tams in the league next year. I'm not saying that they don't have problems, but they're far from insurmountable. What were their projections for the team this year? Or even the year before? "Jamais deux sans trois" -French saying Also, the only thing that Sandoval is going to hit is the declining phase of his career: The aging curve for someone that fat come quicker than normal "athletes"..His bat has been declining for years now and his defense has start to follow...God helps us all for the coming years!
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