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Lester, Gomes & cash traded to OAK for Cespedes + draft pick
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Post by mjammz on Jul 31, 2014 10:05:45 GMT -5
I would have obviously loved Dylan Bundy or Corey Seager or Bell/Glasnow, but who is to say they were even available. I also think it says something about the times that fans would rather a AA or A lottery ticket that is years away from established commodities. All in all, I am very happy with the move.
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Post by jmei on Jul 31, 2014 10:06:27 GMT -5
But I would not have taken a Josh Bell + filler deal over this one. Bell looks to have the ceiling of being a Yoenis Cespedes player with less power. But since Cespedes didn't come up through the minor league system, he doesn't have the fancy outrageous minor league stats for everyone to dream on. Yeah, I think something like this is the real question. Would you want Cespedes/pick or something like Bell+ or Piscotty+? I don't think it's necessarily totally clear cut, but favoring Cespedes is certainly a very defensible position.
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Post by soxfanatic on Jul 31, 2014 10:06:27 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible
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Post by mjammz on Jul 31, 2014 10:08:01 GMT -5
The fact that the Red Sox didn't want to sign Lester DOES NOT mean they won't Re-Sign Cespedes. There isn't a correlation. Just wait to see how it plays out befroe crying. JC.
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Post by raftsox on Jul 31, 2014 10:08:56 GMT -5
Smart move by BC actually. I don't really care for the return all that much, but if they are serious about trying to re-sign Lester in the offseason then he was smartly traded to a team that cannot afford him; making that "exclusive negotiating window" irrelevant. That meme is a complete and utter pipe dream, but let's assume it is all…part…of the…plan. The WHY would you get a guy for 1 year of control instead of a prime prospect in a position of need for 6. To be frank, straight up for Piscotty or someone similar would've been a better return than this. Cherrington either badly misplayed his hand or he has another move to make. I was trying to find something positive about this trade, thanks for killing it. I can't buy into the "playing for 2015" diatribe as of now. The Sox don't have a rotation next season. Buccholz and his 130 innings headlining a following cast of mid-4 FIPs in De La Rosa, Webster and Workman and a pitcher yet to make his Red Sox debut. [note that I'm assuming Lackey is also traded]
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Post by moonstone2 on Jul 31, 2014 10:09:08 GMT -5
I (kind of) understand not loving this trade, but I'm not sure I understand the people who dislike it. Well here's why I don't like the trade with one caveat. I don't know for sure, what else was offered but I think it's a pretty good assumption that the Sox could have made the types choices I am about to refer to. Cespesdes will provide plus power and big time corner OF defense over the next three years which are two things that aren't available in the system right now. However we are still talking about a player who has had an OBP of around .300 in his last 1000 PAs or so. Personally I would have preferred to have a player like Josh Bell, who while further away and certainly no guarantee to ever provide as much value as Cespedes will, provides more upside value to future Red Sox teams. It is clear however that the Sox strategy during the trading deadline is to acquire players who have a better chance to impact the 2015 team as opposed to players who provide better upside. As I said over and over in the Peavy thread, I have a real problem with this strategy. Of course the cynic in me that some of you hate, thinks that the Red Sox are accepting less overall value to acquire a player that the fans have heard of to quell the PR nightmare that this whole Lester saga has become and importantly to increase NESN ratings. That kind of thinking can get you into trouble. I welcome responses to this post but let's keep it to a discussion about the Red Sox obvious strategy of acquiring players who will help next year and are less risky as opposed to players who might help a lot more in future years. Do you think it's a good strategy and why or why not? The "you don't know for sure" posts are really a waste of everyones time and don't move the conversation forward.
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Post by justen on Jul 31, 2014 10:09:31 GMT -5
Check out Cespedes' spray charts. Look at that big clump of popup outs. Those are going to be foul balls in Fenway. And doubles to homeruns. I myself am pretty excited to see JBJ and Cespedes throwing the same outfield, and finally having that powerbat that we've been begging for all year. Cespedes is only 28 years old and depending on performance maybe we resign him after next year. He's obviously going to hit a lot of long balls, and he's posted an above average UZR the last couple seasons in a pretty big outfield (ignoring '12). Pretty exciting to see how Ben continues to build toward 2015.
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Post by bigpupp on Jul 31, 2014 10:09:39 GMT -5
I guess all the people that have been saying the Sox are dumb because they haven't aquired any Cuban players will be quiet...
Oh, guess not.
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Post by WindyCityRedSox169 on Jul 31, 2014 10:10:04 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible Well that throws a wrench into your views of the deal.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 31, 2014 10:11:19 GMT -5
I like the move, don't love it, and don't hate it. I think we should have gotten some sort of prospect back in the deal. Beane gets A+ on his side, as he can probably do better with the payroll in 2015 than just Cespedes contract.
I think this is setting Red Sox up to make big moves this offseason to compete in 2015. Ortiz, Napoli, Cespedes is a pretty formidable 3-4-5 lineup. 3B/SS is our next area to upgrade with Bogaerts taking the other spot. If they bring back Lester the team should be very very good.
Still think Peavy deal brought back more proportional to his value, but I like trading for a 2015 piece much more than trading for a 2015 piece like Bell.
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Post by britalb on Jul 31, 2014 10:12:06 GMT -5
I had the feeling the market was starting to collapse. Too many GMs were saying they didn't want to trade their best prospects for Lester. Also, Beane made a good point recently - we undervalue current production. They Sox don't want to rebuild. Even the return for Peavy was close to major league ready. They want to develop their AAA prospects while Ortiz is still part of the team. They took advantage of a lost season to get a bat they needed without selling off the farm. The market collapsed? Good god, I can't believe I'm actually reading this stuff and people actually believe this stuff. In reality Joc Pederson may have a higher ceiling than Cespedes, but if he ever becomes as good as him most people would call it a win. Josh Bell's ceiling is likely becoming a Cespedes in the majors. It's just crazy I keep seeing this stuff. I get that people are enamored with prospects. I like them too. I mean someone the other day in the TD thread told me I'm more interested in having the #1 farm system than I am winning a World Series. But all prospects are risky. More of them fail to ever come close to reaching their potential than actually reach their ceiling in the MLB. We just acquired a guy who can mash HRs in Fenway. A huge missing piece for this team, a power OF bat. OK - "market collapse" was too strong a term. What I should have said was that they were asking too much, and GMs were making that clear through various reporters. Early reports were that the Sox were looking for "two high-end prospects." Other than that, I agree with you. Which is why the rest of my post is about the importance of present production. And, as I wrote earlier, this bodes well for bringing back Lester. We need an ace. This also bodes well for signing Rusney Castillo. Finally, this gives the Sox a chance to look within their roster for another starter, and lose enough games while doing so to get a great pick. Meanwhile, Lester and Gomes could be back next year. With a healthy Shane Victorino, and some combination of Bradley Jr./Bogaerts/Betts who have figured things out, they could easily dominate next season.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 31, 2014 10:12:18 GMT -5
The ? I have is this. Your either in a full blown rebuild mode or your not. Cespedes OBPCT is a huge concern. It would interesting to see what deals were out there outside of the A's. I would have gone the prospect route (rebuild) unless Cespedes is going to be flipped.
When you Deal with Beane your taking a big gamble. The Sox just gambled!
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Post by kman22 on Jul 31, 2014 10:13:03 GMT -5
That meme is a complete and utter pipe dream, but let's assume it is all…part…of the…plan. The WHY would you get a guy for 1 year of control instead of a prime prospect in a position of need for 6. To be frank, straight up for Piscotty or someone similar would've been a better return than this. Cherrington either badly misplayed his hand or he has another move to make. I was trying to find something positive about this trade, thanks for killing it. I can't buy into the "playing for 2015" diatribe as of now. The Sox don't have a rotation next season. Buccholz and his 130 innings headlining a following cast of mid-4 FIPs in De La Rosa, Webster and Workman and a pitcher yet to make his Red Sox debut. [note that I'm assuming Lackey is also traded] Shouldn't we wait to see the return on Miller and Lackey, (among others?), plus free agency, before saying they won't compete in 2015?
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 31, 2014 10:13:23 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible Well that throws a wrench into your views of the deal. That's okay, we can trade him when we're 10 games out again at next year's deadline .
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Post by lancect on Jul 31, 2014 10:13:57 GMT -5
David Cameron ?@dcameronfg So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible.
I don't like this trade
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 10:14:03 GMT -5
But I would not have taken a Josh Bell + filler deal over this one. Bell looks to have the ceiling of being a Yoenis Cespedes player with less power. But since Cespedes didn't come up through the minor league system, he doesn't have the fancy outrageous minor league stats for everyone to dream on. Yeah, I think something like this is the real question. Would you want Cespedes/pick or something like Bell+ or Piscotty+? I don't think it's necessarily totally clear cut, but favoring Cespedes is certainly a very defensible position. Obviously it's never clear cut with prospects. Bell could become the next Andrew McCutchen and Piscotty could be the next Alex Gordon. However, they could also flame out real quickly. That's the name of the game with prospects. That's why a guy like Cespedes who adds immediate value, fills a huge need, has limited risk and won't be up for a ridiculous contract once this one expires is a really good return for our rental. I can understand if you prefer prospects over players who are in the MLB prime now, but I can't understand being so disappoint in the return like some here are acting. Both have their pros and cons. But both have pretty damn close to the same value for the club.
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Post by kman22 on Jul 31, 2014 10:15:05 GMT -5
The ? I have is this. Your either in a full blown rebuild mode or your not. Cespedes OBPCT is a huge concern. It would interesting to see what deals were out there outside of the A's. I would have gone the prospect route (rebuild) unless Cespedes is going to be flipped. When you Deal with Beane your taking a big gamble. The Sox just gambled! I'd rather they gamble than watch them sit tight and lose Lester for a pick. Roll the dice, hope for the best.
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Post by joshv02 on Jul 31, 2014 10:15:23 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible Yeah, I'm through the CBA and this is the conclusion I come to, as well, though it isn't 100% clear to me. (Qualifying offers are available "only to each Player who becomes a free agent under this Section B..." and section B in that subsection defines FAs as those players who "[f]ollowing the completion of the term of his Uniform Player’s Contract, any Player with 6 or more years of Major League service who has not executed a contract for the next succeeding season.")
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Jul 31, 2014 10:15:29 GMT -5
I don't like this trade. Nothing against Cespedes, who will upgrade our OF. I just don't get how you trade your ace because you won't pay him and then get a player to help you compete next year. For me this trade is horrible if you can't resign Lester or get another ace. Getting an ace is not easy and very expensive in terms of prospects or dollars and sometimes both. Now if they resign Lester, this would look like a brilliant move.
To owners of the Red Sox, you can afford to sign Lester, do it. If you overpay for a few years on the back end, so be it. That's why you charge the games highest ticket prices!
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 10:16:52 GMT -5
@dcameronfg: So I was just informed that Yoenis Cespedes’ contract requires him to be non-tendered after next year, so he’s not QO eligible for arbitration or for qualifying? There is a difference.
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Post by thelavarnwayguy on Jul 31, 2014 10:17:16 GMT -5
Even without the QO I'm still ok with the deal. There is a real good chance we extend him anyway. Our left field power bat is now resident in Fenway for at least 1.5 years. And we netted a comp pick as well. And we helped free the 40 man roster crunch a little.
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,983
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Post by jimoh on Jul 31, 2014 10:18:21 GMT -5
Something tells me Beane is going to nab Rusney Castillo and pop him in LF to replace Cespedes. He'll essentially end up with Lester, Gomes and cash to help pay for Castillo in exchange for a second round pick. I don't think Beane gets any extra cash but that the cash will help pay Lester and Gomes in 2014, right?
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 31, 2014 10:19:10 GMT -5
From MLBTraderumors.com
10:09am: Dave Cameron of Fangraphs reports another wrinkle in the trade: Cespedes’ contract calls for him to be non-tendered at the end of his deal (if he is not first extended) in order to assure him early free agency, and he therefore is ineligible to receive a qualifying offer following the 2015 season (Twitter links).
I thought in the CBA there was rules that nothing can be put into a contract disallowing a team to extend a qualifying offer. Anyone know any clarity of that?
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 10:19:56 GMT -5
Something tells me Beane is going to nab Rusney Castillo and pop him in LF to replace Cespedes. He'll essentially end up with Lester, Gomes and cash to help pay for Castillo in exchange for a second round pick. I don't think Beane gets any extra cash but that the cash will help pay Lester and Gomes in 2014, right? The amount of cash sent in this deal is pretty irrelevant, less than $1 million.
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Post by mjammz on Jul 31, 2014 10:20:41 GMT -5
om Caron @tomcaron Source w/ #RedSox told me team wanted to deal Lester to "team we didn't think could re-sign him." Said Sox will make offer this off-season.
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