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Post by justen on Jul 31, 2014 10:20:58 GMT -5
Wow this board is pretty rough and looks at very little in perspective.
I think everyone is forgetting we still have a Lackey/Miller trade waiting to happen which should bring us back at least one top prospect if not a couple. I think everyone just needs to hop out of panic mode. Not to mention the comp pick is going to be huge for our draft next year as $800K is no little draft slot. That's going to be a very good prospect right there. We got someone who is going to make it easier for Ben to build a contending '15 during the off-season. The season was already in tank mode why don't we stop being typical over-dramatic Red Sox fans and have patience.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 10:20:58 GMT -5
From MLBTraderumors.com 10:09am: Dave Cameron of Fangraphs reports another wrinkle in the trade: Cespedes’ contract calls for him to be non-tendered at the end of his deal (if he is not first extended) in order to assure him early free agency, and he therefore is ineligible to receive a qualifying offer following the 2015 season (Twitter links). I thought in the CBA there was rules that nothing can be put into a contract disallowing a team to extend a qualifying offer. Anyone know any clarity of that? Someone needs to clarify that there's a difference between arbitration and qualifying offers.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 31, 2014 10:22:29 GMT -5
It's a fair trade. And entirely disappointing.
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Post by lennsakata on Jul 31, 2014 10:23:01 GMT -5
My argument is and was that he has not been very good for the past two seasons. That is a valid point/concern with a considerable sample. I don't care if he had an OPS of .866 for 10 years before that. The further you go back the less relebvant the data becomese...I was simply establishing that over a good sample size of 900 at bats he has not been all that productive...not publishing a thesis here, just identifying a trend. Ignoring the fact that you continue to want to manipulate the stats for some crazy reason. Your argument is just plain wrong. Cespedes WAR of 4.1 over the past 2 seasons combined is good for 31st out of all outfielders in the major leagues. He may not be elite, but he is a really good player who fills a huge hole on this team. That is also ignoring the fact that Cespedes adds value on defense because of his awesome arm, even if he isn't the greatest fielder. No, your argument is plain wrong. Win. Classic reversal. I really don't care about three years ago, you've established that he was wicked awesome three years ago and I have pointed out that he has had two mediocre years since then. If people want to consider the whole body of work they can, if people believe in the relevancy of a two year trend then they'll value that info. You clearly don't believe in trends/sample sizes, I don't feel the need to put trends in context when there it represents two consecutive full (near full) seasons or 2/3 of the players career.
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Post by James Dunne on Jul 31, 2014 10:23:03 GMT -5
A lot of people have clarified it. Sometimes people just don't understand the rules.
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jimoh
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Posts: 3,990
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Post by jimoh on Jul 31, 2014 10:23:01 GMT -5
I'm guessing that if he signed a. Contract before the new CBA saying he had to be non tendered he might be grandfathered in..
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 31, 2014 10:25:02 GMT -5
om Caron @tomcaron Source w/ #RedSox told me team wanted to deal Lester to "team we didn't think could re-sign him." Said Sox will make offer this off-season. I'm not even sure I believe this but if it's true it's enraging.
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 10:25:10 GMT -5
Also, worth noting that Athletics' fans reaction to the trade is that the almost unanimously are not fans of the deal.
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atzar
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Post by atzar on Jul 31, 2014 10:25:38 GMT -5
I welcome responses to this post but let's keep it to a discussion about the Red Sox obvious strategy of acquiring players who will help next year and are less risky as opposed to players who might help a lot more in future years. Do you think it's a good strategy and why or why not? The "you don't know for sure" posts are really a waste of everyones time and don't move the conversation forward. It depends on whether we move Lackey and what we do with our money in the offseason, really. If we trade Lackey and remain unwilling to spend, then your stance is reasonable. On the other hand, if the front office decides to keep Lackey and then lands Lester and/or Scherzer or whoever else to bolster the rotation over the winter... You have to be excited about that, right? So in answer to your question... I like the strategy of focusing on next year as long as they don't half-ass it. I would have liked a vision for the future if they didn't half-ass it. Just show me a tangible, workable plan and a full commitment to that plan, and I'm content.
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Post by patrmac04 on Jul 31, 2014 10:25:51 GMT -5
How did they trade a draft pick as well as the player? I didn't think they could trade draft picks in the MLB.
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Post by kman22 on Jul 31, 2014 10:27:18 GMT -5
How did they trade a draft pick as well as the player? I didn't think they could trade draft picks in the MLB. Competitive balance picks can be traded.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Jul 31, 2014 10:27:45 GMT -5
I love the deal particularly for 2015. Right handed power is the new efficiently.
We just got the best one possible.
This also plays as a perfect complement to Betts and Bradley in the of.
The future return from the rest to go can help to replace the pitching staff now and continue to stock the future.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Jul 31, 2014 10:28:47 GMT -5
Overall I like the deal. I will love this deal if we either 1) re-sign Lester this winter, or 2) extend Cespedes. It does not have to be both! Both would be outrageous. I'm a big Josh Bell fan, but he would not have helped us for a couple of years. Cespedes will be a solid contributor in 2015 (and hopefully beyond). It is conceivable that Lackey and Miller to the Pirates may still get us some very good prospects. Lackey's contract situation is very valuable. So until we see what transpires with Lackey and Miller, there is no reason to have a final vote. The Bucs very much might consider control of Lackey for one more year more valuable for their immediate situation. I'm quite glad I don't have to see Gomes (attempt) to play left again. Cespedes will definitely make it entertaining for us for the next 2 months and the next year. He could become a monster in the AL East. The only ball field he may not like hitting in is Yankee Stadium. He will absolutely love hitting in Baltimore, Toronto, Tampa Bay, and Boston. 18 games in those 1st three cities and 81 in the later may add up to some nice numbers. If you check out Cespedes' stats currently you will see a ton of doubles also. Next season he could potentially be worth more than 60 extra base hits! Can't wait to see what we receive for Lackey and Miller now.
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Post by bettsonmookie on Jul 31, 2014 10:29:45 GMT -5
Assuming Cespedes pencils into the lineup ahead of Ortiz, I'm extremely interested to see what effect, if any, that type of protection has on his numbers based on the way pitchers approach him.
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ianrs
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Post by ianrs on Jul 31, 2014 10:30:40 GMT -5
Amazing job by Ben filling a dire need for 2015. Jon, you will be missed and I hope you're back next year.
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Post by GyIantosca on Jul 31, 2014 10:31:38 GMT -5
The A's were having an issue with Cespedes. He didn't want to play CF and ask Reddick to switch w/o talking to the manager. Imagine what the Sox were getting offered? I agree Lackey is the key. Miller and maybe Breslow who has a option also. Bandenhop.
By the way see ya Gomes. I wonder if WMB can be in play? I miss Lester. I never heard what he wanted.
My opinion is the Sox are good at evaluating pitching and they need help identifying hitting. Cespedes should have a good year in his contract year and it's a good audition for the Sox brass.
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Post by jrffam05 on Jul 31, 2014 10:32:06 GMT -5
From MLBTraderumors.com 10:09am: Dave Cameron of Fangraphs reports another wrinkle in the trade: Cespedes’ contract calls for him to be non-tendered at the end of his deal (if he is not first extended) in order to assure him early free agency, and he therefore is ineligible to receive a qualifying offer following the 2015 season (Twitter links). I thought in the CBA there was rules that nothing can be put into a contract disallowing a team to extend a qualifying offer. Anyone know any clarity of that? Someone needs to clarify that there's a difference between arbitration and qualifying offers. Is there? They are saying it would apply to the qualifying offer, not arbitration. I understand the 6 years of team control, and I know that part could be waived but I thought there were provisions to say no player could not be restricted from receiving a qualifying offer. Anyone, clarity on this?
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Jul 31, 2014 10:32:42 GMT -5
Tulo looks more appealing now than he did a few hours ago.
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Post by elguapo on Jul 31, 2014 10:33:11 GMT -5
The A's were having an issue with Cespedes. He didn't want to play CF and ask Reddick to switch w/o talking to the manager. . Sounds like evidence of solid baseball IQ.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 31, 2014 10:35:30 GMT -5
This clouds Mookie's future a little.
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Post by raftsox on Jul 31, 2014 10:37:04 GMT -5
I was trying to find something positive about this trade, thanks for killing it. I can't buy into the "playing for 2015" diatribe as of now. The Sox don't have a rotation next season. Buccholz and his 130 innings headlining a following cast of mid-4 FIPs in De La Rosa, Webster and Workman and a pitcher yet to make his Red Sox debut. [note that I'm assuming Lackey is also traded] Shouldn't we wait to see the return on Miller and Lackey, (among others?), plus free agency, before saying they won't compete in 2015? Are they magically going to get a <4 FIP pitcher from Lackey and Miller? Doubtful. Given their history of not signing expensive contracts, I find it unlikely that they'll do so for 2015; making the rotation pretty suspect. As of this moment, 2015 looks to be worse than 2014 did at the beginning of the season.
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Post by burythehammer on Jul 31, 2014 10:38:57 GMT -5
I wonder if it's a coincidence that the first time Tom Caron has ever cited a "source" in his career it just happens to be to report something that will soothe casual fans angry about trading Lester.
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Post by britalb on Jul 31, 2014 10:39:21 GMT -5
Also, worth noting that Athletics' fans reaction to the trade is that the almost unanimously are not fans of the deal. Agreed. A lot of dejection in the Bay Area this morning. The smart ones though realize that the A's control over Cespedes was coming to an end and this deal gives them a killer chance to win it all this year. Gray, Lester, Samardzija and Kazmir will stack up favorably against Kershaw, Greinke and Beckett in the WS. Looking forward to Lester v. Beckett....
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Post by jbberlo on Jul 31, 2014 10:39:24 GMT -5
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Post by soxfan06 on Jul 31, 2014 10:39:35 GMT -5
Smart move by BC actually. I don't really care for the return all that much, but if they are serious about trying to re-sign Lester in the offseason then he was smartly traded to a team that cannot afford him; making that "exclusive negotiating window" irrelevant. That meme is a complete and utter pipe dream, but let's assume it is all…part…of the…plan. The WHY would you get a guy for 1 year of control instead of a prime prospect in a position of need for 6. To be frank, straight up for Piscotty or someone similar would've been a better return than this. Cherrington either badly misplayed his hand or he has another move to make. Somehow I missed this, what I will call, "interesting" comment. How in the world can you even suggest that? Piscotty is a good prospect, but far from a sure thing. In fact he reads like a guy who does nothing extremely well, but everything okay. Those guys are far from can't miss guys. Most of his scouting reports suggest he is a bad defender and suggest his ceiling is a 3rd outfielder on a bad team/4th outfielder on a contender. And the odds of him reaching his ceiling aren't exactly high. I think Piscotty could have a decent MLB career, as long as he continues to hit for average, but I think he is certainly a tier below Yoenis Cespedes level. If you compare the minor league stats, Jackie Bradley Jr. was better across the board in the minors at the same ages and levels than Piscotty but one has elite defensive ability and the other is known as a pretty bad defender. So, I'd love to know how in the world you believe that to be true? It's your opinion, you are allowed to have it...but I'd certainly love to know why because I don't see it.
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