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Rusney Castillo (source: will sign for $72.5mm thru 2020)
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 18, 2014 9:51:01 GMT -5
What did he just say?
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Post by bettsonmookie on Aug 18, 2014 9:52:48 GMT -5
It's kind of silly to just assume that every Cuban will be as good as the last Cuban. The NBA went through a period like with with Euro players, and it illustrated a painful lesson-- the foreign talent pool is usually shallow, and once the top few names get signed, the guys behind them are just as hyped but less talented. Each player should be evaluated on his own merits, but because so little public scouting info is available on these guys, it's hard to figure out how much these guys are worth. Still, the default attitude should not be to think that they'll necessarily be a bargain. I didn't originally agree with you, but the way you liken the Cuban market to European basketball players changes my perspective a bit. Still, it's hard to get cautious on a market like Cuba when all the recent defectors have seemed to turn into premium talent, and in many cases they far surpass their price tag. Me and my buddies debate this stuff all the time, and I've said for a while it would be interesting to see a team target and blitz the Cuban talent market as an alternative to the US free agent market. With memory bias playing a huge role here, I am inclined to think more highly regarded Cubans will work out, rather than bust.
Still, your NBA comparison has made me more skeptical of Cuba's talent pool than I previously was. And that's what debate/discussion forums are all about right?
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Post by godot on Aug 18, 2014 9:59:08 GMT -5
The problem with the Euro analogy is that baseball is a part of the national pastime in Cuba with little competition from other sports than perhaps soccer unlike basketball in Europe where they have to import American players. Yeah, most of the European Universities and colleges have basketball programs.
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Post by jimed14 on Aug 18, 2014 10:11:09 GMT -5
Let's say that the US ends the stupid embargoes against Cuba.
Does that mean we get another 100 Puigs and Abreus?
It's pretty ridiculous to think that the party won't ever end.
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Post by godot on Aug 18, 2014 10:16:54 GMT -5
Has anyone done a reliable analysis, one without the American is great bias of Cuban baseball? How does it compare to say AAA ball?
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Post by juniorp90 on Aug 18, 2014 10:30:45 GMT -5
Sorry for my English !! i Used Google Translate... What I mean is that all players have their value, some more than others, but Castillo Sign involves a risk like all amateurs and college players, college and international. Are there few statistics on these players? Yes, thanks to Cuba's communist system. I would risk with Castillo, and have lost Abreu, Darvish, and more...
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Post by sibbysisti on Aug 18, 2014 10:49:42 GMT -5
Sorry for my English !! i Used Google Translate... What I mean is that all players have their value, some more than others, but Castillo Sign involves a risk like all amateurs and college players, college and international. Are there few statistics on these players? Yes, thanks to Cuba's communist system. I would risk with Castillo, and have lost Abreu, Darvish, and more... No prob. Just couldn't understand your point. Agree, Castillo would be an upgrade to the OF though I prefer a LH bat. At least it wouldn't cost anything but money, a commodity ownership seems to have in abundance.
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danr
Veteran
Posts: 1,871
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Post by danr on Aug 18, 2014 11:00:06 GMT -5
A few years ago I saw a documentary about Luis Tiant returning to Cuba and visiting with friends and family, and with baseball players. Apparently virtually every able bodied man plays baseball at some point in his life - not so much different from the Dominican and the U.S. in the 1920s. There are various levels of their pro leagues, such as they are. Apparently, no one makes much money, but then no one makes much money doing anything in Cuba. The communist system still is very much in place.
There was a conversation between Tiant and a number of men who appeared to be very knowledgeable about Cuban and American baseball in which they talked about how many Cuban players could play in the majors. The consensus was, not that many, maybe a half dozen or so. Some names were mentioned, but I don't recall them.
I have no idea how good an analysis this was, but one of the points made was that Cuban players did not get very good training. They learned by playing. Also, that competition was very uneven.
It was a very interesting piece with good insight into life in Cuba, which is fairly grim, but for the average Cuban better than it was before Castro.
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Post by juniorp90 on Aug 18, 2014 11:12:14 GMT -5
Can Rusney Castillo play 3rd? It would be an interesting bet, playing Betts in the CF and placing on the market players like Bradley Jr, Craig, Napoli, Nava...
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Post by bryce on Aug 18, 2014 11:15:25 GMT -5
I support the idea of Jay Bruce-Rusney Castillo-Jason Heyward!!!
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Post by stevedillard on Aug 18, 2014 11:22:43 GMT -5
It would be pretty embarrassing to let yet another Cuban get away. Anything you give these guys is going to be a good deal compared to what they would get in the FA market one season after they breakout in the majors. There's really no excuse. Somwhere Dailier Hinojosa weeps at being forgotten. He weeps into $4 million of klenex.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 18, 2014 11:24:45 GMT -5
While J.C. Linares laughs.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 18, 2014 11:24:56 GMT -5
The problem with the Euro analogy is that baseball is a part of the national pastime in Cuba with little competition from other sports than perhaps soccer unlike basketball in Europe where they have to import American players. Yeah, most of the European Universities and colleges have basketball programs. I think I read Keith Law recently say that the range in the Cuban game is wide, with much of the pitching being A-ball level. They don't see a lot of filthy breaking stuff and 95 MPH fastballs, but there are some very talented players there who are often on display in international tourneys. Certainly the scouting is much tougher than, say, the Korean or Japanese leagues.
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Post by charliezink16 on Aug 18, 2014 11:52:12 GMT -5
Yeah I've got to say, I don't understand our involvement with Castillo unless he can play 3B. CF should be a competition between Mookie and JBJ with the odd man out being dealt this offseason. That still leaves us with Craig, Nava, Cespedes, Vic, and technically Holt. I dunno, if Castillo is a star in their eyes who can't be passed upon, then go for it, but I don't see where he fits in unless he can play 3B.
Additionally, I'm curious as to what Boston's plans are for Cecchini who's finally starting to figure it out in AAA. Scouts have remained high on him even through his struggles. Does he end up at LF or 3B, or dealt elsewhere this offseason? Signing Castillo would just add to the logjam, guess we just have to wait it out and see which players they end up dealing for Stanton, hehe.
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,929
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Post by nomar on Aug 18, 2014 12:37:30 GMT -5
I support the idea of Jay Bruce-Rusney Castillo-Jason Heyward!!! Jay Bruce is a struggling product of his home park. Fenway wouldn't be friendly to him at all with our spacious RF. Yankee stadium would be a good fit, but he would see a big drop in production here.
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Post by soxfan06 on Aug 18, 2014 12:40:11 GMT -5
Yeah I've got to say, I don't understand our involvement with Castillo unless he can play 3B. CF should be a competition between Mookie and JBJ with the odd man out being dealt this offseason. That still leaves us with Craig, Nava, Cespedes, Vic, and technically Holt. I dunno, if Castillo is a star in their eyes who can't be passed upon, then go for it, but I don't see where he fits in unless he can play 3B. Additionally, I'm curious as to what Boston's plans are for Cecchini who's finally starting to figure it out in AAA. Scouts have remained high on him even through his struggles. Does he end up at LF or 3B, or dealt elsewhere this offseason? Signing Castillo would just add to the logjam, guess we just have to wait it out and see which players they end up dealing for Stanton, hehe. It's quite simple. He's available, and all he costs is money. Available OF talent is thin and if we could sign a guy like Castillo we could cash in on a Cespedes or a Craig and get something nice back for them.
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Post by taftreign on Aug 18, 2014 13:40:44 GMT -5
Yeah I've got to say, I don't understand our involvement with Castillo unless he can play 3B. CF should be a competition between Mookie and JBJ with the odd man out being dealt this offseason. That still leaves us with Craig, Nava, Cespedes, Vic, and technically Holt. I dunno, if Castillo is a star in their eyes who can't be passed upon, then go for it, but I don't see where he fits in unless he can play 3B. The supposed top two teams to land him are NYY and Boston. NYY already has Ellsbury and Gardner so they don't necessarily need a CF either. Interesting to see how things shake out.
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Post by mjammz on Aug 18, 2014 13:42:39 GMT -5
Our involvement with Castillo is based on the fact that there is an utter dearth of talented OF bats on the FA market and in our minor league system.The opportunity to acquire a 4 tool player for only cash (relatively reasonable amount) is one that doesn't come along often. Where the Red Sox are right now it's all about acquiring talent and figuring out how it slots in later.
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Post by mjammz on Aug 18, 2014 13:44:53 GMT -5
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Post by soxfanatic on Aug 18, 2014 13:48:13 GMT -5
@scottlauber: Heard Cuban OF/INF Rusney Castillo is moving quickly toward a decision. #RedSox have shown considerable interest.
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Post by grandsalami on Aug 18, 2014 13:53:58 GMT -5
Yeah I've got to say, I don't understand our involvement with Castillo unless he can play 3B. CF should be a competition between Mookie and JBJ with the odd man out being dealt this offseason. That still leaves us with Craig, Nava, Cespedes, Vic, and technically Holt. I dunno, if Castillo is a star in their eyes who can't be passed upon, then go for it, but I don't see where he fits in unless he can play 3B. The supposed top two teams to land him are NYY and Boston. Boston already has Ellsbury and Gardner so they don't necessarily need a CF either. Interesting to see how things shake out. We do? :-)
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Post by xanderbogaerts2 on Aug 18, 2014 14:10:33 GMT -5
JBJ sent down? Last 2 games he was 3-6 bb and a sac fly. SSS obv. People questioning if Betts is a placeholder for Castillo because of Scott Lauber's tweet.
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Post by Gwell55 on Aug 18, 2014 14:26:58 GMT -5
JBJ sent down? Last 2 games he was 3-6 bb and a sac fly. SSS obv. People questioning if Betts is a placeholder for Castillo because of Scott Lauber's tweet. If you look at the quality on the team he was hitting against that might explain the teams decision to send him down. Sure looked like he was good at hitting against AAA pitching this week and that might be what they figure he needs to get some confidence back.
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Post by Guidas on Aug 18, 2014 14:57:50 GMT -5
JBJ sent down? Last 2 games he was 3-6 bb and a sac fly. SSS obv. People questioning if Betts is a placeholder for Castillo because of Scott Lauber's tweet. Why wouldn't JBJ be a "placeholder," as well?
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Post by artfuldodger on Aug 18, 2014 15:03:51 GMT -5
One advantage that Betts has is that with his position flexibility, he can still get regular ABs even if the Red Sox signs Castillo. If Castillo does sign with the Red Sox, he and JBJ may be teammates for a couple of weeks prior to the end of the minor league season.
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