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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2014 15:14:20 GMT -5
If WMB mashed AAA it won't tell us anything about what he'd do in MLB, certainly not enough to bring him up and move Hanley off of third base to try it out. After he hit 32 home runs in 615 total at-bats the previous two seasons it’s important to note that Middlebrooks’ struggles came in conjunction with a finger injury, which nagged him from spring training through the middle of the season and caused a DL stint. He also missed time with calf and hamstring problems, making for a season we’d all like to forget. Still, Middlebrooks is just one year removed from hitting 17 home runs in only 348 at-bats All this reinforces to me is WMB is a giant puss and can't play with any sort of an injury. He's been terrible for the majority of his time in the majors and this is coming from someone who's binky was WMB.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 15:19:44 GMT -5
Marino Pepén ?@marino_Pepen 11m11 minutes ago
FUENTE: Los #RedSox formalizarán mañana su oferta para Pablo Sandoval, que podría ser: 5-6 años y una opción a razón de 20 MM por año. #MLB
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,930
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Post by nomar on Nov 19, 2014 15:20:18 GMT -5
WMB slightly underperforms xBABIP for whatever reason, but consistently both in the MLB and in AAA. He's got problems with pitch recognition and injuries (some unlucky, some recurring). Like Bradley, unless someone is very high on him, it makes more sense to keep him and see if he can rebound. If he does it's a bonus, but one that you can't count on receiving.
I disagree that him mashing in AAA wouldn't mean anything, though. When he mashed in AAA, he came up and succeeded in the majors. When he went south in the majors, he wasn't hitting well in AAA either. Something changed with him, and I don't think he'll mash really at any level until he corrects it (if he ever does).
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 19, 2014 15:20:29 GMT -5
5/100, 6th year option is the latest source for Sandoval.
More $ than I would have liked, but if the 6th year is a team option or vesting option based on above average results, I can be ok with that. I don't like it, but it likely makes this team significantly better in at minimum the next 2 years.
With the limited options at 3B now and anytime in the next 3-4 years, an "overpay" might be necessary, and it still shouldn't totally hamper much of their spending. Still plenty for a top flight SP, and with a trade of an outfielder, enough for another mid level SP
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 19, 2014 15:20:48 GMT -5
If WMB mashed AAA it won't tell us anything about what he'd do in MLB, certainly not enough to bring him up and move Hanley off of third base to try it out. After he hit 32 home runs in 615 total at-bats the previous two seasons it’s important to note that Middlebrooks’ struggles came in conjunction with a finger injury, which nagged him from spring training through the middle of the season and caused a DL stint. He also missed time with calf and hamstring problems, making for a season we’d all like to forget. Still, Middlebrooks is just one year removed from hitting 17 home runs in only 348 at-bats I've too attributed WMB's struggles to his injuries and have pondered that perhaps he could be perceived in a much brighter light right now if he has stayed healthy. I do think he is more talented than the recent numbers suggest.
however, if that must be true then the injuries alone are a reason to cause alarm. All the talent in the world means nothing if you can consistently get on the field.
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nomar
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Posts: 10,930
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Post by nomar on Nov 19, 2014 15:23:42 GMT -5
Marino Pepén ?@marino_Pepen 11m11 minutes ago FUENTE: Los #RedSox formalizarán mañana su oferta para Pablo Sandoval, que podría ser: 5-6 años y una opción a razón de 20 MM por año. #MLB Better pray he goes off in his "prime" the next few years and becomes a hitter capable of being a 1B/DH. Not thrilled, but assuming that's not a player option.
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Post by dirtywater on Nov 19, 2014 15:27:23 GMT -5
on WMB - I hate to question the work ethic of a guy I do not know. But it is a common thing for an athlete to have lots of success very early on and think he's "made it" and then not put in the effort to maintain his status. The constant calf and hamstring problems indicate poor training, diet, workout regimen + who knows with the whole J Dell thing. The wrist injury was and still could be a very legitimate thing. One could argue Nomar was never really the same after the wrist injury. But something was extremely wrong during all of 2014 with Will. He did not look hurt, he looked severely over-matched.
Is 2015 WMB's last option year? Correct me if I'm wrong but his stint in the minors in 2014 - wasn't that all technically on rehab and he did not burn an option? Options are always the most confusing thing for me, can anyone shed light on if 2015 is indeed his last option year?
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 19, 2014 16:05:15 GMT -5
on WMB - I hate to question the work ethic of a guy I do not know. But it is a common thing for an athlete to have lots of success very early on and think he's "made it" and then not put in the effort to maintain his status. The constant calf and hamstring problems indicate poor training, diet, workout regimen + who knows with the whole J Dell thing. The wrist injury was and still could be a very legitimate thing. One could argue Nomar was never really the same after the wrist injury. But something was extremely wrong during all of 2014 with Will. He did not look hurt, he looked severely over-matched. Is 2015 WMB's last option year? Correct me if I'm wrong but his stint in the minors in 2014 - wasn't that all technically on rehab and he did not burn an option? Options are always the most confusing thing for me, can anyone shed light on if 2015 is indeed his last option year? He does indeed have one remaining. Sox gamed his rehab so that he didn't burn an option.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 19, 2014 16:07:44 GMT -5
sox claim toronto 3B Juan Francisco off waivers. We are now ready to roll.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2014 16:26:56 GMT -5
sox claim toronto 3B Juan Francisco off waivers. We are now ready to roll. Papi's replacement. Just needs to learn how to hit LHP. And to not strike out 40% of the time. And take walks.
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Post by p23w on Nov 19, 2014 16:34:45 GMT -5
Has everybody here completely given up on Middlebrooks becoming an everyday 3B? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I haven't yet and that's why I think the Sox should sign Hanley Ramirez instead of Pablo. If Middlebrooks does pan out Ramirez could move to Left next year when Victorino is gone and if Middlebrooks continues to fail they could leave Ramirez at 3B. Pretty much. He's got one chance and he needs to show drastic improvement on several fronts. Whether that chance comes with the Sox is not even a given.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2014 16:37:40 GMT -5
Has everybody here completely given up on Middlebrooks becoming an everyday 3B? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I haven't yet and that's why I think the Sox should sign Hanley Ramirez instead of Pablo. If Middlebrooks does pan out Ramirez could move to Left next year when Victorino is gone and if Middlebrooks continues to fail they could leave Ramirez at 3B. Pretty much. He's got one chance and he needs to show drastic improvement on several fronts. Whether that chance comes with the Sox is not even a given. WMB has one last chance in AAA to improve his trade value or else he's a minor league free agent next year.
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Post by jerrygarciaparra on Nov 19, 2014 16:44:31 GMT -5
Has everybody here completely given up on Middlebrooks becoming an everyday 3B? I'd like to hear your thoughts on it. I haven't yet and that's why I think the Sox should sign Hanley Ramirez instead of Pablo. If Middlebrooks does pan out Ramirez could move to Left next year when Victorino is gone and if Middlebrooks continues to fail they could leave Ramirez at 3B. Pretty much. He's got one chance and he needs to show drastic improvement on several fronts. Whether that chance comes with the Sox is not even a given. I am probably in the minority here...and it may be stating the obvious...but unless they sign a free agent to man 3rd...I think the Sox will plan on giving Willy Mo every chance to win the job in spring training.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 19, 2014 17:53:31 GMT -5
Ian Browne ?@ianmbrowne 5m5 minutes ago
By the way, I have a source directly involved in negotiations who says Sandoval still has not received offer from Red Sox.
Ian Browne ?@ianmbrowne 2m2 minutes ago
Also, Sandoval did leave Boston a few hours ago.
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 18:05:59 GMT -5
“@gordonedes: Michael Sandoval, Pablo's brother and one of his agents, said they have left Boston without an offer but still are waiting on one from Sox”
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 19, 2014 18:06:24 GMT -5
“@nickcafardo: In addition to offers by San Francisco and Boston, Pablo Sandoval is expected to receive an offer from the Blue Jays in next 24 hours.”
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Post by soxfan06 on Nov 19, 2014 19:55:21 GMT -5
Good. Hopefully SF caves, gives him what he wants or Toronto steals him.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,946
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 19, 2014 19:58:21 GMT -5
WMB has one last chance in AAA to improve his trade value or else he's a minor league free agent next year. No, he'll be on the MLB 40-man roster but without an option to use next spring, as Britton and Lavarnway are now.
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Post by dcsoxfan on Nov 19, 2014 20:48:25 GMT -5
The Red Sox urgency at 3B makes no sense to me.
Brock Holt may not be an average major league 3B, but he is above replacement (and this will be his age 27 year).
If we assume that Bogaerts and Pedroia will make up half the Red Sox infield,they have four players -- Cecchini, Marrero, Coyle, Middlebrooks -- essentially competing for one position. Is it really so unlikely that at least one of these players becomes an average major leaguer?
Paying Sandoval 100 million dollars for what will be at best a relatively small upgrade over what they already have does not seem wise to me.
They should be prioritizing pitching, especially given the longer learning curve normally associated with young pitchers. Given the depth in pitching prospects, I think the Red Sox will eventually see significant contributions from current farm hands. It just might take a while; it usually does.
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Post by dirtywater on Nov 19, 2014 21:23:42 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 19, 2014 21:42:07 GMT -5
The Red Sox urgency at 3B makes no sense to me. Brock Holt may not be an average major league 3B, but he is above replacement (and this will be his age 27 year). If we assume that Bogaerts and Pedroia will make up half the Red Sox infield,they have four players -- Cecchini, Marrero, Coyle, Middlebrooks -- essentially competing for one position. Is it really so unlikely that at least one of these players becomes an average major leaguer? Paying Sandoval 100 million dollars for what will be at best a relatively small upgrade over what they already have does not seem wise to me. They should be prioritizing pitching, especially given the longer learning curve normally associated with young pitchers. Given the depth in pitching prospects, I think the Red Sox will eventually see significant contributions from current farm hands. It just might take a while; it usually does. I don't like Pablo so don't take this the wrong way but saying one of those guys will work out may be true but how do you get to the point where you find out? There will likely be a lot of games played by players who aren't good while you're trying to sort it out. That's one of he biggest issues if you are a team like Boston or any team integrating a bunch of young guys at once. Even good ones have growing pains then you have to figure out who's going to snap out and who won't and if you have options then when do you move on to the next one?
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 19, 2014 21:55:14 GMT -5
The Red Sox urgency at 3B makes no sense to me. Brock Holt may not be an average major league 3B, but he is above replacement (and this will be his age 27 year). If we assume that Bogaerts and Pedroia will make up half the Red Sox infield,they have four players -- Cecchini, Marrero, Coyle, Middlebrooks -- essentially competing for one position. Is it really so unlikely that at least one of these players becomes an average major leaguer? Paying Sandoval 100 million dollars for what will be at best a relatively small upgrade over what they already have does not seem wise to me. They should be prioritizing pitching, especially given the longer learning curve normally associated with young pitchers. Given the depth in pitching prospects, I think the Red Sox will eventually see significant contributions from current farm hands. It just might take a while; it usually does. It's not just a third base crisis, though. The lack of effective left handed bats in our lineup is pretty alarming. Right now, there's Ortiz, and hopefully Nava, but between the glut of outfielders and Farrell, you never know how much he'll get to play. Otherwise, the lineup is set to be comprised entirely of RHH's, many of whom, while not actually platoon players, have significant platoon stats. Since you have too many outfielders as is, and the non-3B infield spots are locked up (barring a Napoli trade), the Sox searching outside the organization for someone like Sandoval makes a lot of sense. It's just a matter of whether giving him $100 million makes sense...
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Post by jmei on Nov 19, 2014 23:49:40 GMT -5
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 20, 2014 0:05:10 GMT -5
But but but. It doesn't fit the narrative that the owners are meddling with the FO!!!!
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Post by mredsox89 on Nov 20, 2014 2:09:12 GMT -5
We go through this every year with free agents. I believe it's still the Sox's money for sales in the ballpark, or something of that sort. But that is such a small portion, that basing FA decisions on that is asinine, and the ownership knows this. Merchandise has little to no impact on signings nowadays
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