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Dave Cameron: Cespedes for Cueto?
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Post by James Dunne on Nov 9, 2014 20:38:22 GMT -5
Makes some sense. While Cincy didn't have a great year, they should have to core of a contender. It makes sense at least to hold onto Cueto to see if they can make a run this year, then trade him at the deadline if they can't. Maybe Latos too, though trading Latos for an outfielder who can help in 2015 might make even more sense.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 10, 2014 12:29:53 GMT -5
If the Sox make a run at Cueto I would expect them and the Reds to want it to be an Agon type trade and sign... The Reds can get more this way and Boston can feel better about giving up more.
For Cueto, if they can sign him to say a 5 year 110m extension, I'd give up Cespedes and Owens and another prospect or two in the Coyle range. Essentially, you'd have him for 6 years ages 29-34. They can even dump Marshall and his salary in the Sox too.
Sign Lester and you have the top of your rotation set.
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2014 15:54:49 GMT -5
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2014 18:30:49 GMT -5
Jmei u mentioned in another threat that "cincy is planning to contend so Cespedes doesn't make sense". That implies he makes sense if they aren't which I don't understand.
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2014 18:52:20 GMT -5
There's been discussion about how the Reds will be either all in or all out, and Cespedes-for-a-pitcher would be a lateral move. [ADD: by which I mean: it seems like they're either going to keep all their pitchers and add offense by signing free agents or trading prospects for veterans, or they're going to trade their pitchers for prospects.] There's also been discussion about how CIN wants to add OBP.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 17, 2014 20:13:47 GMT -5
So you just feel Cespedes is a bad fit no matter their plan?
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Post by jmei on Nov 17, 2014 20:16:28 GMT -5
I think he is both a bad fit for them in a vacuum and also does not fit their likely offseason strategy.
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Post by larrycook on Nov 24, 2014 22:55:07 GMT -5
I agree. And while I do think the Reds would be willing to move latos instead , I do not think cespedes would be a guy they would move him for.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Nov 29, 2014 6:44:30 GMT -5
To maybe make this more realistic and hurt a bit more... What if it were Cespedes and Barnes? What if it were Cespedes and Johnson? What if it were Cespedes and Rodriguez? I think you'd need to send one of those three (or Owens). With Marshall, I think you count on him to throw the middle innings, with the chance he does a lot more and a chance he doesn't even pitch. EDIT: hadn't read redsox040713champs's post yet, but yeah, that sounds right. With Barnes or Johnson, maybe you throw one more guy in. But remember, taking Marshall off their hands is like sending them a player. For me Cueto is the pitcher I really want. I want them to resign Lester and trade for Cueto. I would give up Cespedes and Barnes and/or Johnson. I'd give up both if that's what it took. I'd also give up players like Webster and Ranaudo. Not sure about Rodriguez as he has elite stuff, I see him as a Jon Lester type pitcher. I wouldn't include Owens.
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Post by kingofthetrill on Nov 30, 2014 13:04:52 GMT -5
I feel that Cespedes should be able to get us Leake straight up, and maybe even Latos, but I'd be willing to include someone like Ranaudo with Cespedes for Latos. I admit that I'm a bit biased but I'd rather have Latos than someone like Leake or Porcello. I'd maybe be willing to add another small piece to Cespedes/Ranaudo for Latos.
That said, I think Cueto is the real prize. If we can sign Lester and trade for Cueto, we could have an amazing rotation. I think that Cespedes would be the start, mlbtraderumors indicates that the Reds could use Marrero. I'd offer Cespedes/Marrero/Johnson/Ranaudo for Cueto if we are able to get Cueto to agree to an extension. Without the extension, or if we take on Marshall, then I might hold onto Johnson, although I like the idea of selling high on him. We could potentially have a Lester/Cueto/RDLR/Kelly/Buchholz rotation and still hold onto Betts/Bogaerts/Swihart/Owens/Barnes/Rodriguez/Devers/Margot.
Would Cincy bite on Cueto for Cespedes/Marrero/Johnson/Ranaudo? I think the absolute highest I'd offer would be Cespedes/Marrero/Johnson/Ranaudo and taking on Marshall, but that'd be if we can sign Cueto long term.
Please pardon my rambling. I think I'm too excited for my own good.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 30, 2014 13:47:25 GMT -5
I want nothing to do with Leake... If they had the chance to get Porcello and took Leake instead then I've lost faith in Ben...
Cueto is the prize I guess but I'd be perfectly satisfied with Latos. I think he's worth the chance. I'd let him play out the year and offer a QO but see how it goes and what else is on the market. Obviously, some of these guys could sign early but there are a ton of good free agent pitchers this year. Not all of them will get paid and the too guys market may be slightly suppressed because there are so many other very good ones.
I'd almost prefer to trade for a guy and not extend him right away so you can see how he does for a year up close.
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Dec 3, 2014 13:09:25 GMT -5
Napoli, buck, Cespedes
Cueto, Votto
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nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,799
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Post by nomar on Dec 3, 2014 13:49:04 GMT -5
Napoli, buck, Cespedes Cueto, Votto More like Napoli, Buch, Margot, Cespedes, Rodriguez
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 3, 2014 17:20:59 GMT -5
Napoli, buck, Cespedes Cueto, Votto More like Napoli, Buch, Margot, Cespedes, Rodriguez Lets just focus on Cueto. I'd give them Buch, Nava, Coyle and Rodriguez/Johnson. Buch could bounce back in the NL and has a couple of option years that Cinny could afford. Nava is a cheap team controlled OF. Coyle could be second basemen of future and Rodriguez and Johnson are good pitching prospects. Doesn't a player like Nava have more value then Cesepedes for the Reds? You can take Buch out and insert a young pitcher like Ranaudo, Webster, Workman or Barnes.
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Post by gatorgreenwell on Dec 10, 2014 11:11:53 GMT -5
I don't see the Sox trading away the one pitcher who they can (somewhat) depend on.
The Reds would have one of the best lineups in the NL if they were to acquire Cespedes.
Hamilton, Phillips, Votto, Cespedes, Bruce, Frazier, Mesoraco, Cozart, Pitcher. They would still have Latos, Leake, Bailey, and Simon in the rotation, with Chapman closing the door. They could make a serious run for it, even without Cueto. We could make it Cespedes, Webster, and some lower level guys for Cueto. Webster could probably be their 5th starter right now. They'd have a better shot at retaining Cespedes than they would Cueto.
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Post by jdb on May 15, 2015 17:22:16 GMT -5
Bowden was saying on Inside Pitch today there was over 20 scouts, (which is apparently way more than normal before the draft) at Cuetos last start and most think he gets traded after the All Star game in Cincy.
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Post by gatorgreenwell on May 22, 2015 12:16:25 GMT -5
Bowden listed the Red Sox as the best fit for Cueto, and said he's got a solid chance of being traded...
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Post by jrffam05 on May 22, 2015 12:20:49 GMT -5
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Post by mookiemagicfan on May 24, 2015 20:13:26 GMT -5
I suggested that a couple of weeks ago. But we will see come July probably.
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Post by telson13 on May 24, 2015 22:39:23 GMT -5
I suggested that a couple of weeks ago. But we will see come July probably. The idea of getting both is great. But it would probably take Rodriguez/Margot (or Devers) and probably Marrero plus another piece. I'm not sure I like it, unless both can be signed to extensions. I'd rather give up Johnson or Owens than Rodriguez, and what if Cincy wants Kopech too? Definitely would be a huge boon to the ML team, but with nothing coming back for Cueto at the end of the year, it's risky.
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Post by mookiemagicfan on May 25, 2015 8:36:49 GMT -5
If we can keep Deavers, ERod and Kopech, would you change your tune? We have so many middle infielders right now along with solid OF depth...I think we could afford to give up some pieces for an ace and a lock down no doubt RP...esp for a deep run in the playoffs where we could shorten the game with a lock down bp...with taz, Uehara, and Chapman...? Seems legit to me. Again this is dependent on what CIN would call "fair value" as well as where we are in the standings.
I'm all for this. Maybe...Owens, Margot, Marrero, and another lower level lottery ticket not named Kopech. (plus a depth piece or 2...like Cecchini)
And it's not like CIN can ask for the world...as you said, Cueto is gone after this season (minus an extension) so for a 2-3 month rental they cannot expect to get 5 of our top 10.
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alnipper
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Living the dream
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Post by alnipper on May 25, 2015 10:05:17 GMT -5
Another package could be Owens, B. Johnson, Light, Cecchini, and Marrero. Only if we have a contract agreement in principal with Cueto. I would rather trade Johnson than Margot. Plus we still have Erod and Wright for depth for SP depth.
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Post by wcsoxfan on May 25, 2015 16:58:20 GMT -5
Another package could be Owens, B. Johnson, Light, Cecchini, and Marrero. Only if we have a contract agreement in principal with Cueto. I would rather trade Johnson than Margot. Plus we still have Erod and Wright for depth for SP depth. I can't remember ever seeing a mid-season trade where it was contingent on an extension. I agree with some of the above, if Cueto is healthy then a Margot + Owens + B- prospect + throw in; seems solid. Unless a higher end talent becomes available.
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Post by telson13 on May 25, 2015 18:32:59 GMT -5
If we can keep Deavers, ERod and Kopech, would you change your tune? We have so many middle infielders right now along with solid OF depth...I think we could afford to give up some pieces for an ace and a lock down no doubt RP...esp for a deep run in the playoffs where we could shorten the game with a lock down bp...with taz, Uehara, and Chapman...? Seems legit to me. Again this is dependent on what CIN would call "fair value" as well as where we are in the standings. I'm all for this. Maybe...Owens, Margot, Marrero, and another lower level lottery ticket not named Kopech. (plus a depth piece or 2...like Cecchini) And it's not like CIN can ask for the world...as you said, Cueto is gone after this season (minus an extension) so for a 2-3 month rental they cannot expect to get 5 of our top 10. Yes, with the caveat that I'd do my best not to include Margot. Cincy drafted Marrero out of HS and they need a SS, so he might be of interest to them. I'd be willing to give up Owens and Johnson plus some other pieces if Cueto agreed pre-deal to sign an extension (5/150?). The Sox also have Guerra and Dubon with promise in the INF, both of whom is like to see them keep, particularly Guerra, and I could see Cincy asking for one of them. If the Sox do take Bregman, that would make either more palatable as another piece.
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Post by telson13 on May 25, 2015 18:39:25 GMT -5
Another package could be Owens, B. Johnson, Light, Cecchini, and Marrero. Only if we have a contract agreement in principal with Cueto. I would rather trade Johnson than Margot. Plus we still have Erod and Wright for depth for SP depth. I can't remember ever seeing a mid-season trade where it was contingent on an extension. I agree with some of the above, if Cueto is healthy then a Margot + Owens + B- prospect + throw in; seems solid. Unless a higher end talent becomes available. For both Margot *and* Owens plus pieces, the Sox would need to get Chapman too. Otherwise they're giving away way too much for a rental. Remember, ERod's stock was way down because of his leg injury when the Sox got him for Miller, and even now he's considered a 40-60 range guy. Owens was a top-30-40, with some rankings having him even higher, and despite the control issues his BA against is close to, if not actually, leading all minor-league starters. Margot was a pre-season top-70, so the two of them combined plus a borderline top-100 like Marrero/Johnson plus a lottery ticket is a fair price to pay for Cueto+Chapman.
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