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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 20, 2014 21:30:17 GMT -5
You have to have a leadoff batter. Because, if you don't, the #2 guy will have to become the leadoff batter.
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Post by thursty on Nov 20, 2014 22:50:11 GMT -5
Pedroia shouldn't hit anywhere in the top of the lineup, at least ideally. No longer a good offensive player, OTOMH - wasn't he 99 wRC+ in 2014? and trending down
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Post by Don Caballero on Nov 20, 2014 23:02:04 GMT -5
Because Castillo screams "traditional leadoff hitter" and he got big money, which is not a combination that allows room for creativity. I'd be surprised if he isn't used there next season, unless he flops tremendously.
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Post by iakovos11 on Nov 20, 2014 23:07:42 GMT -5
He doesn't have the OB skills of a leadoff hitter though - at least a good leadoff hitter for a championship team.
Seriously, after last year, not sure why anyone but Betts would be considered the leading leadoff hitter candidate.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Nov 21, 2014 0:01:15 GMT -5
Because Castillo screams " traditional leadoff hitter" and he got big money, which is not a combination that allows room for creativity. I'd be surprised if he isn't used there next season, unless he flops tremendously. If by "traditional," you mean prior to about 1980, that's correct. But there's no one within shouting distance of working for an MLB organization who doesn't know that OBP is the most important skill for a leadoff hitter. And Castillo projects as a guy whose value will be more from his power than his on-base skills. I also believe Cherington and Farrell are likely familiar with the argument that speed is actually more valuable just after the heart of the order, before your singles hitters, than it is at the top of the order, before guys who hit the ball out of the park and render a SB moot.
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Post by bookiemetts on Nov 21, 2014 0:20:43 GMT -5
I think as long as Mookie has a place in the field and lineup, he should be hitting leadoff. If he's going to hit 291/368/444 with a lot of steals why would you put him anywhere else? His skill-set screams leadoff hitter, but the question is whether Farrell agrees.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 21, 2014 1:07:44 GMT -5
I think as long as Mookie has a place in the field and lineup, he should be hitting leadoff. If he's going to hit 291/368/444 with a lot of steals why would you put him anywhere else? His skill-set screams leadoff hitter, but the question is whether Farrell agrees. Farrell certainly agreed in September as Mookie was leading off by then and doing a fine job of it.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 21, 2014 7:55:35 GMT -5
It's too early to make any proclamations regarding Castillo's ability to lead off. If he's not suited for the role, then perhaps he bats 6th or 7th in a strong lineup with Betts leading off. If Castillo is suited for the role though, then I don't see any problem with batting Betts in the two hole. Basically, Betts is going to excel wherever you bat him. Castillo won't be nearly as suited to the role because he doesn't walk enough. Hopefully he gets better at that. You need to get on base more than you need to be fast. And frankly at this point, Castillo also has a lot of work to do on baserunning.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 21, 2014 7:58:42 GMT -5
Because Castillo screams " traditional leadoff hitter" and he got big money, which is not a combination that allows room for creativity. I'd be surprised if he isn't used there next season, unless he flops tremendously. If by "traditional," you mean prior to about 1980, that's correct. But there's no one within shouting distance of working for an MLB organization who doesn't know that OBP is the most important skill for a leadoff hitter. And Castillo projects as a guy whose value will be more from his power than his on-base skills. I also believe Cherington and Farrell are likely familiar with the argument that speed is actually more valuable just after the heart of the order, before your singles hitters, than it is at the top of the order, before guys who hit the ball out of the park and render a SB moot. A future project suggestion for you - A study about hitting with a great base stealer on base. My hypothesis is that wOBAs are higher. I think it's a nice luxury to have.
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Post by ancientsoxfogey on Nov 21, 2014 8:14:31 GMT -5
The leadoff hitter will be the hitter following the last batter who completed his plate appearance in the previous inning.
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Post by dirtywater on Nov 21, 2014 8:57:57 GMT -5
I don't think Castillo will have the plate discipline to leadoff based on reports I've read when he signed. But overall it's kind of hard to predict what kind of numbers he will put up as a rookie, so maybe he could. I figured he'd be good for something like .270/.320/.420 which isn't quite leadoff material, but it's a solid #7 hitter in this day and age.
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Post by GyIantosca on Nov 21, 2014 9:10:37 GMT -5
It's gonna be so much better to actually have someone that can lead off . I hated what we trotted out last year. Also regarding Betts ,how much better do fans feel if Petey gets hurt because he plays all out ,that we have someone that can take over second base and we don't have to think the season is over. To me that was so important.
I like the fact the Sox are giving Weeks a chance also.
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Post by mannofsteele on Nov 21, 2014 9:12:44 GMT -5
I would say that Betts is the sure "bet" until proven otherwise. But, there are a lot of outfield options. I would keep Pedroia in the two hole, unless you move him down.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 21, 2014 10:27:10 GMT -5
Because Castillo screams "traditional leadoff hitter" and he got big money, which is not a combination that allows room for creativity. I'd be surprised if he isn't used there next season, unless he flops tremendously. Will agree with others above in disagreeing with this. If the lineup were Castillo and eight David Ortizes, then sure, but it's not like there aren't any other guys who have a vaguely leadoff-ish skillset that they could put up there. Put me in the camp that assumes it's Betts. Pretty open-shut case based on current roster construction, imo. And also, agree with those who've pointed out that leadoff wasn't the problem last year. Red Sox leadoff hitters hit .269/.330/.378. League average was .268/.326/.392. Compare that to 7-9: Sox, .221/.288/.323; AL, .243/.302/.362.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 21, 2014 10:45:12 GMT -5
I know it's a SSS for both players but if Rusney Castillo is every bit of good as he showed last year and Mookie Betts ability to hit 15 HR and over 60 XBH carrys to the MLB level. I'd lead off with Castillo and bat Betts 2nd or 3rd. But really, if that happens you kinda can't go wrong with either or.
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Post by gatorgreenwell on Nov 21, 2014 11:10:03 GMT -5
I don't know the numbers - maybe someone can help me here. In the small sample sizes, what were Betts' and Castillo's pitches per at bat numbers?
Just thinking off the top of my head - I think Mookie should lead off. I also think I'd prefer Xander batting in the 2 hole.
If Pedroia can prove he can still hit .290 and get on base at a .360-.370 clip with 10ish homers and a bunch of doubles, then I'm fine with him batting 2. He was very good in 2013, so I'll chalk last year up to a down/injury year. Cant take the spot away from him yet. If last year wasn't a fluke, then we shouldn't just keep him batting 2 out of respect.
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 21, 2014 11:10:37 GMT -5
Since the question is " who will bat leadoff" and not "who should bat leadoff", the only rational answer is Castillo until he proves he can't handle it. That's the title of the thread. The question is; Should the Red Sox be addressing the need at the top of the order as much as 3B or SP?
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Post by ethanbein on Nov 21, 2014 11:15:28 GMT -5
If by "traditional," you mean prior to about 1980, that's correct. But there's no one within shouting distance of working for an MLB organization who doesn't know that OBP is the most important skill for a leadoff hitter. And Castillo projects as a guy whose value will be more from his power than his on-base skills. I also believe Cherington and Farrell are likely familiar with the argument that speed is actually more valuable just after the heart of the order, before your singles hitters, than it is at the top of the order, before guys who hit the ball out of the park and render a SB moot. A future project suggestion for you - A study about hitting with a great base stealer on base. My hypothesis is that wOBAs are higher. I think it's a nice luxury to have. MGL did this a few months ago. mglbaseball.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/do-base-stealers-disrupt-the-pitcherdefense-or-the-batter/
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Post by mattpicard on Nov 21, 2014 11:27:04 GMT -5
IMO, it's kind of ridiculous to consider anyone other than Betts for the role. I know some people feel that there's the risk of him running into some Bogaerts-type first (full) season struggles, but he's just not that type of hitter. Seriously, an unexpected "bad" year for Betts would probably look something like .270/.330/.390, in which case he'd still be one of the best options on the team for the leadoff spot.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 21, 2014 11:45:30 GMT -5
Wow, how about that, thanks. I wonder why he doesn't compare base stealer on first vs all other plate appearances.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 21, 2014 11:47:13 GMT -5
Since the question is " who will bat leadoff" and not "who should bat leadoff", the only rational answer is Castillo until he proves he can't handle it. That's the title of the thread. The question is; Should the Red Sox be addressing the need at the top of the order as much as 3B or SP? No. Should the Red Sox be addressing the need for a manager who is able to make the obvious choice for leadoff hitter that is already on the roster?
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Post by dmaineah on Nov 21, 2014 11:49:57 GMT -5
That's the title of the thread. The question is; Should the Red Sox be addressing the need at the top of the order as much as 3B or SP? No. Should the Red Sox be addressing the need for a manager who is able to make the obvious choice for leadoff hitter that is already on the roster? That might be a good topic for another thread
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Post by ramireja on Nov 21, 2014 12:47:50 GMT -5
I don't know the numbers - maybe someone can help me here. In the small sample sizes, what were Betts' and Castillo's pitches per at bat numbers? Just thinking off the top of my head - I think Mookie should lead off. I also think I'd prefer Xander batting in the 2 hole. If Pedroia can prove he can still hit .290 and get on base at a .360-.370 clip with 10ish homers and a bunch of doubles, then I'm fine with him batting 2. He was very good in 2013, so I'll chalk last year up to a down/injury year. Cant take the spot away from him yet. If last year wasn't a fluke, then we shouldn't just keep him batting 2 out of respect. Mookie Betts: 4.36 Rusney Castillo: 3.33 (majors, so tiny sample size) Not just based on this, but for reasons that other posters have mentioned, to me its Mookie leading off and its not much of a question. His contact rate and plate discipline are just too good to not have leading off. Then add in some speed and a little bit of pop and its an added bonus. Very excited to having him leading off for hopefully quite some time.
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Post by bookiemetts on Nov 21, 2014 13:58:43 GMT -5
I think as long as Mookie has a place in the field and lineup, he should be hitting leadoff. If he's going to hit 291/368/444 with a lot of steals why would you put him anywhere else? His skill-set screams leadoff hitter, but the question is whether Farrell agrees. Farrell certainly agreed in September as Mookie was leading off by then and doing a fine job of it. Well I mean look at who was in the regular lineup at that time. There weren't many other options. Pedey was hurt, Castillo was playing for the first time in a year, Cespedes doesn't get on base and a crippled Allen Craig was getting at bats in the cleanup spot. How do we know Farrell won't play Vic there instead? But I will say that probably the leadoff spot really doesn't mean much and they shouldn't construct a team looking for one. They just need to play good players.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 21, 2014 15:40:10 GMT -5
Because Castillo screams "traditional leadoff hitter" and he got big money, which is not a combination that allows room for creativity. I'd be surprised if he isn't used there next season, unless he flops tremendously. Will agree with others above in disagreeing with this. If the lineup were Castillo and eight David Ortizes, then sure, but it's not like there aren't any other guys who have a vaguely leadoff-ish skillset that they could put up there. Put me in the camp that assumes it's Betts. Pretty open-shut case based on current roster construction, imo. And also, agree with those who've pointed out that leadoff wasn't the problem last year. Red Sox leadoff hitters hit .269/.330/.378. League average was .268/.326/.392. Compare that to 7-9: Sox, .221/.288/.323; AL, .243/.302/.362. Really important to correct this. A lineup with 8 David Ortizes and a Catillo would have Ortiz 1-8 and Castillo 9.
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