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2015 Official Spring Training thread
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2015 15:07:21 GMT -5
@trags: Farrell makes 2 things clear Koji won't be ready for Opener. Barring late change in health Victorino is starting RF
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2015 15:07:52 GMT -5
@mikesilvermanbb: Closer Koji Uehara will start season on the DL.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2015 15:08:12 GMT -5
@alexspeier: Farrell on Castillo's role: TBD.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2015 15:08:32 GMT -5
@bradfo: Farrell reiterates Victorino is healthy and is teams starting RF
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2015 15:25:04 GMT -5
Hope it's posturing. Doubt it is.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 30, 2015 15:36:48 GMT -5
@bradfo: Farrell reiterates Victorino is healthy and is teams starting RF So healthy he can't swing a bat as a left hander.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,821
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 30, 2015 15:36:57 GMT -5
In a perfect world, Victorino would be a super-sub OFer - he's too injury-prone to handle a starter's workload, so playing a "backup" role would take some of that weight off. But he'd still get close to starter ABs when 1) Castillo and/or Mookie inevitably slump, and 2) when Hanley inevitably gets injured.
Unfortunately the guy is an egomaniac who would never accept such a role. Too bad.
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Post by gregblossersbelly on Mar 30, 2015 15:44:29 GMT -5
Unfortunately the guy is an egomaniac who would never accept such a role. Too bad. There are 285 position starters in MLB. 282 of them would be ticked to take a lesser role entering a contract year.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 30, 2015 15:50:38 GMT -5
Like I said, talking heads gotta talk. Absolutely. Of course, while I agree Tazawa would be a fine closer, he probably wouldn't be setting himself up as well, so it does weaken the bullpen overall. But I'm sure that will sort itself out, and if it turns out we need someone for the 7th inning before the trade deadline, well, the Astros store is always open. Barnes is better, right now, than anyone the Sox could pick up from the Astros. Houston's "store" has some bare shelves when it comes to pitching, with Appel for example being nowhere near the stud he was painted to be. Who you bucking for, Pat Neshek? The beard is cool, I guess.
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wcp3
Veteran
Posts: 3,821
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Post by wcp3 on Mar 30, 2015 15:53:57 GMT -5
Unfortunately the guy is an egomaniac who would never accept such a role. Too bad. There are 285 position starters in MLB. 282 of them would be ticked to take a lesser role entering a contract year. Many of them have a better track record of staying healthy. And they'd be far less obnoxious about it, too.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 30, 2015 16:07:02 GMT -5
Unfortunately the guy is an egomaniac who would never accept such a role. Too bad. There are 285 position starters in MLB. 282 of them would be ticked to take a lesser role entering a contract year. And a lot of the ones who are/were ticked end up out of baseball.
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Post by grandsalami on Mar 30, 2015 16:31:02 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal ?@ken_Rosenthal 2m2 minutes ago Why Mookie actually might be the next McCutchen - with thoughts from Ortiz, Hanley and @thecutch22 himself.... fb.me/2JYSsDDKM
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Post by JackieWilsonsaid on Mar 30, 2015 16:47:49 GMT -5
Which brings up a completely inane point.
In the post newspaper social media junky world, how small must a sportswriter be to be effective?
Rosenthal, Shefter, and many others are sized to star in the whack pack yet get it done.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2015 19:07:01 GMT -5
There are 285 position starters in MLB. 282 of them would be ticked to take a lesser role entering a contract year. And a lot of the ones who are/were ticked end up out of baseball. Probably, but none of them who do end up out of baseball because they are ticked. It's funny, Castillo has a bad attitude because he isn't mad enough about a potential demotion to Triple-A, Victorino has a bad attitude because he wants to remain a starter.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Mar 30, 2015 19:31:33 GMT -5
Funny, and true. This will all sort itself out. What it means is that the Sox are dealing with an excess of talent. That can't be much of a bad thing, can it?
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2015 20:10:48 GMT -5
The more I look at it, the more insane the comparison between Victorino and Sizemore gets. Victorino's WAR/500 AP was 1.9 last year. Even broken he was basically an average regular. Two years ago, Victorino was arguably one of the 10 best players in the AL. Sizemore, for comparison, was five years off of his previous good season - he hadn't even been able to play baseball two years before.
Not every veteran who isn't a superstar is blocking a young player.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Mar 30, 2015 22:13:13 GMT -5
The more I look at it, the more insane the comparison between Victorino and Sizemore gets. Victorino's WAR/500 AP was 1.9 last year. Even broken he was basically an average regular. Two years ago, Victorino was arguably one of the 10 best players in the AL. Sizemore, for comparison, was five years off of his previous good season - he hadn't even been able to play baseball two years before. Not every veteran who isn't a superstar is blocking a young player. He hit .268/.303/.382 with a 21/6 K/BB. Regardless of what the WAR calculations say (and they disagree on this matter; Fangraphs has him at replacement level last year), even on a rate basis he wasn't good last year. Moreover, his rates aren't even the concern, it's his health, which was problematic in '13, apocalyptic in '14, and not looking much better this year. Are Grady Sizemore comps appropriate? Maybe not in terms of their specific histories as players, but in terms of what to expect from Victorino this year? It's not a stretch.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 30, 2015 22:45:37 GMT -5
The major difference is that Sizemore had been hurt or bad for half a decade. Victorino was excellent in 2013 then hurt and/or mediocre in 2014. So sure, his downside risk is that he's as much of a disaster as Sizemore was last year, but that error bar stretches a lot higher. He has what, maybe a 40% chance to be average or better?
The only way Victorino hurts the team is if he's a) healthy enough to stay on the field, b) bad enough that he's worse than the replacements but c) good enough to convince the team to keep Castillo - who they just spent $72M on - off the field in lieu of him. That's kind of threading the needle. If he's Sizemore bad or close to it, he won't play over Castillo. If he's injured then he's not blocking anybody. If he's playing well, great. I just think he's played well enough over the past couple years to have a chance to fail unless he really looks totally broken down.
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ericmvan
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Supposed to be working on something more important
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Post by ericmvan on Mar 30, 2015 23:07:56 GMT -5
So, final roster decisions. At least one seems easy.
It makes no sense not to DL Kelly when they only need him once before 4/21. Let Wright take the Saturday start against the Yankees and have Kelly make two rehab starts.
That will mean two bullpen spots between Layne, Ross, and Barnes, until Koji is ready. That's still up in the air, I think.
Obviously, the major decision is between trading Craig, optioning him, or optioning Castillo. Ironically, the worse Victorino looks, the less eager you are to trade Craig. I've been the biggest advocate for giving Shane a RF shot, but I'm very impressed with Castillo and not optimistic about Shane being 100%. In the long run the one-year upgrade (if any, when injuries are factored in) of Victorino over Craig on the bench may not be worth giving up the remaining control over Craig, who could be a very nice bench piece for the next couple of years.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 31, 2015 6:21:21 GMT -5
The more I look at it, the more insane the comparison between Victorino and Sizemore gets. Victorino's WAR/500 AP was 1.9 last year. Even broken he was basically an average regular. Two years ago, Victorino was arguably one of the 10 best players in the AL. Sizemore, for comparison, was five years off of his previous good season - he hadn't even been able to play baseball two years before. Not every veteran who isn't a superstar is blocking a young player. It wasn't a literal comparison of the players. It was a comparison of the situation.
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Post by moonstone2 on Mar 31, 2015 6:28:05 GMT -5
The Red Sox can backdate Kelly 10 days and activate him on April 11th or 12th if he's ready. Before then, all of the public information seems to indicate that they will go with 8 relievers. With Koji on the DL, my guess is that it's Mujica, Breslow, Tazawa, Layne, Vavarro, Ross, Barnes, and Ogando. I suspect they would like to get Eveland on the roster but absent a trade, I don't see how they do that. So sorry Eric, I doubt that Wright will be on the roster to start the season.
At least to start, I think they will err on the side of conservatism and have Rusney Castillio start at AAA or a week or two and get some at bats. If Victorino starts to break down, you can always call him up. Unless you get a good deal, trading Craig, given that he has options, makes no sense.
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Post by moonstone2 on Mar 31, 2015 6:30:56 GMT -5
@bradfo: Farrell reiterates Victorino is healthy and is teams starting RF So healthy he can't swing a bat as a left hander. Considering how bad he's been as a lefty going back many years, this is actually a good thing.
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Post by James Dunne on Mar 31, 2015 7:20:29 GMT -5
The more I look at it, the more insane the comparison between Victorino and Sizemore gets. Victorino's WAR/500 AP was 1.9 last year. Even broken he was basically an average regular. Two years ago, Victorino was arguably one of the 10 best players in the AL. Sizemore, for comparison, was five years off of his previous good season - he hadn't even been able to play baseball two years before. Not every veteran who isn't a superstar is blocking a young player. It wasn't a literal comparison of the players. It was a comparison of the situation. And my argument is that the situation is different because of player quality.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Mar 31, 2015 7:55:31 GMT -5
Little known fact: Sizemore is an Old English word from the Anglo-Saxon meaning, "red herring."
Seriously though, the difference between Sizemore and Victorino is irrelevant. The real point at issue here is the difference between Castillo and Victorino and secondarily the difference between Victorino and Craig. I'd rather Castillo start in right, Craig on the bench, and they find a new home for Victorino, mostly because Castillo has shown me enough defense to think that Victorino's advantage there isn't worth the rest of the package.
But, you gotta do something with Vic. They're not just gonna DFA him. So, if their plan is really to showcase that Victorino is healthy(ish) to facilitate an early trade, I think it's worth having him in rightfield for the start of the season. My main concern there is how many trades really happen in April? It doesn't seem to happen ... but, hey, maybe Vic starts out great, and Castillo pulls a hammy in the first week down in Pawtucket.
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Post by jimed14 on Mar 31, 2015 7:57:21 GMT -5
It wasn't a literal comparison of the players. It was a comparison of the situation. And my argument is that the situation is different because of player quality. This is basically the same argument that people who were fine with not playing Nava in favor of Sizemore were making. It turned out not to be true. We'll see. I'm on record. I'd put Craig in AAA, Rusney in RF fulltime and Victorino as the 4th OF, absent of trades.
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