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2015 Official Spring Training thread
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Post by jrffam05 on Apr 2, 2015 15:45:11 GMT -5
No, actually waivers come first. An example, Cesar Cabral was drafted from the Sox by the Rays in the 2010 draft, placed on waivers in March and claimed by the Jays, placed on waivers again after the Jays couldn't work out a trade for him and re-claimed by the Rays two days later. He was sent back to the Sox a couple weeks later. If he'd been offered back first, he'd just have been sent back before going to the Jays. This is the question I was actually asking. I get all the rules for keeping the player or offering him back, but I was trying to figure out if placing the player on waivers was required. I recall players just being offered back before, but it seems that everyone is passing through waivers (and being claimed) now. I imagine if the O's do put Garcia on waivers, several teams would be interested in claiming him, whether they then tried to sneak him through waivers later or not. Yea it could turn into a game of musical chairs. Thing with him sticking in Baltimore though, is they are actually playing for the division, so he'd have to actually perform to stick. He could end up on the Phillies where him tanking wouldn't really matter, in which case Amaro might demand Chavis to get him back. Sidebar, check out this gem from Oriz's minor league days. He hasn't aged much http://instagram.com/p/0-h-kxsdqZ
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 2, 2015 15:50:54 GMT -5
This is the question I was actually asking. I get all the rules for keeping the player or offering him back, but I was trying to figure out if placing the player on waivers was required. I recall players just being offered back before, but it seems that everyone is passing through waivers (and being claimed) now. I imagine if the O's do put Garcia on waivers, several teams would be interested in claiming him, whether they then tried to sneak him through waivers later or not. Yea it could turn into a game of musical chairs. Thing with him sticking in Baltimore though, is they are actually playing for the division, so he'd have to actually perform to stick. He could end up on the Phillies where him tanking wouldn't really matter, in which case Amaro might demand Chavis to get him back. The reason it doesn't turn into musical chairs, though, is because the Rule 5 rules still apply to the player. Consider that, at this point, it's not like a team has all of camp to evaluate whether the player can stick on their roster. Even if you're a team like the Phillies, you're going to have to make room for the player on the 25-man roster, and even if that means you have a guy with options that it'd make sense to send down, he's then bumping a AAA guy out of a roster spot, and so forth. Could happen that a team claims Garcia, but I'd guess that it's slightly more likely that he isn't claimed.
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Post by jrffam05 on Apr 2, 2015 16:20:39 GMT -5
Yea it could turn into a game of musical chairs. Thing with him sticking in Baltimore though, is they are actually playing for the division, so he'd have to actually perform to stick. He could end up on the Phillies where him tanking wouldn't really matter, in which case Amaro might demand Chavis to get him back. The reason it doesn't turn into musical chairs, though, is because the Rule 5 rules still apply to the player. Consider that, at this point, it's not like a team has all of camp to evaluate whether the player can stick on their roster. Even if you're a team like the Phillies, you're going to have to make room for the player on the 25-man roster, and even if that means you have a guy with options that it'd make sense to send down, he's then bumping a AAA guy out of a roster spot, and so forth. Could happen that a team claims Garcia, but I'd guess that it's slightly more likely that he isn't claimed. If a crumby team likes the player enough and there is a reasonable way to keep the player he would stick. If we picked up someone we really liked mid last year, would you really be that upset if we sold Badenhop to clear a roster spot? I get it, there is a lot of factors working against that situation, but I'd guess teams like the Phillies, Twins, or Diamondbacks could have a roster spot that they really don't care about, or is a trade candidate, and they wouldn't mind getting an evaluation period on a reliever throwing a hundo. Astro's sat through 40 innings of 5 ERA from Fields. I would agree, it's unlikely because claiming a player would require a roster spot midseason timed with the waiver period of the player. For my information, was Garcia projected as likely to go in the rule 5? I know Fields was.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Apr 2, 2015 16:37:01 GMT -5
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 2, 2015 16:53:39 GMT -5
The reason it doesn't turn into musical chairs, though, is because the Rule 5 rules still apply to the player. Consider that, at this point, it's not like a team has all of camp to evaluate whether the player can stick on their roster. Even if you're a team like the Phillies, you're going to have to make room for the player on the 25-man roster, and even if that means you have a guy with options that it'd make sense to send down, he's then bumping a AAA guy out of a roster spot, and so forth. Could happen that a team claims Garcia, but I'd guess that it's slightly more likely that he isn't claimed. If a crumby team likes the player enough and there is a reasonable way to keep the player he would stick. If we picked up someone we really liked mid last year, would you really be that upset if we sold Badenhop to clear a roster spot? I get it, there is a lot of factors working against that situation, but I'd guess teams like the Phillies, Twins, or Diamondbacks could have a roster spot that they really don't care about, or is a trade candidate, and they wouldn't mind getting an evaluation period on a reliever throwing a hundo. Astro's sat through 40 innings of 5 ERA from Fields. I would agree, it's unlikely because claiming a player would require a roster spot midseason timed with the waiver period of the player. For my information, was Garcia projected as likely to go in the rule 5? I know Fields was. Well "projected as likely to be selected" isn't really a thing anymore, imo - it's mostly guesswork given the quality of player available. I, for one, thought he had a decent chance to be picked, but little chance to stick. And I get how the roster manipulations would work. Thing is, Garcia isn't a slam dunk MLB reliever right now - he's walked 7 in 9 1/3 innings of work, which was the issue we all knew he had. This isn't like Fields who had been in the upper minors. Garcia hasn't even been to High A yet. I'm skeptical of his ability to get MLB hitters out, even if he's working mid-90s. As for Fields, he was on the DL from early April until early July. That made it a lot easier to keep him. Late-breaking news, the Rangers claimed the O's other Rule 5 pick, Logan Verrett, off waivers. Verrett was seen as the better bet to make the roster, so my guess is that Garcia may be put on waivers soon too.
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Post by adiospaydro2005 on Apr 2, 2015 17:34:55 GMT -5
What a waste deciding to keep Victorino over Castillo who is so much better than him in every phase of the game. The good news is that is likely a temporary situation given Victorino's injury history and/ or his performance.
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Post by soxcentral on Apr 3, 2015 8:28:30 GMT -5
What a waste deciding to keep Victorino over Castillo who is so much better than him in every phase of the game. The good news is that is likely a temporary situation given Victorino's injury history and/ or his performance. Agreed. Worse still would be where they hit Victorino in the lineup, because if he's our lead off hitter...
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 3, 2015 8:55:17 GMT -5
What a waste deciding to keep Victorino over Castillo who is so much better than him in every phase of the game. The good news is that is likely a temporary situation given Victorino's injury history and/ or his performance. Agreed. Worse still would be where they hit Victorino in the lineup, because if he's our lead off hitter... They've been using pretty much the same lineup all spring when the whole starting lineup is playing, in which Victorino hits seventh. Betts laid claim to the leadoff spot a long time ago.
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Post by okin15 on Apr 3, 2015 9:09:24 GMT -5
What a waste deciding to keep Victorino over Castillo who is so much better than him in every phase of the game. The good news is that is likely a temporary situation given Victorino's injury history and/ or his performance. I also think that Castillo will have a better year than Victorino, but I'm not sure that when healthy, Shane isn't better than early-season Rusney. It's certainly possible, but Castillo "so much better"?? no one can predict that with certainty, and it's not that likely.
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Post by mattpicard on Apr 3, 2015 9:30:40 GMT -5
One thing to watch with Shane, along with the inevitable massive regression in his RHH vs. RHP numbers (from 2013), is how his defense holds up. Many still seem to assume that he'll be a terrific right fielder, as he was in 2013 when he was worth +25 runs. Based on how he's looked in ST, where he's been discernibly more hobbled and slow (relative to what he was), and combined with needing to regress that +25 no matter how good/bad he appears now, I don't think there's any guarantee that he'll even be much above average, if at all.
And, yes, it looks like he'll hit seventh. Maybe eighth if Xander comes out of the gate strong. Hopefully they'll give him a hefty amount of off-days versus right-handers, allowing Nava to step in and provide a sizable offensive boost.
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Post by mgoetze on Apr 3, 2015 9:32:25 GMT -5
I don't really buy this Rusney rustiness narrative. He had 40 PAs in the majors, 39 PAs in Arizona, and 39 PAs in Puerto Rico. That's not a massive amount but it's enough to remember how to play baseball. In the spring training games he played I saw some very savvy, heads-up baserunning and at least one great defensive play. The idea that he needs more time because "he hasn't played baseball for so long" doesn't quite pass the smell test for me.
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Post by brianthetaoist on Apr 3, 2015 9:46:32 GMT -5
One thing to watch with Shane, along with the inevitable massive regression in his RHH vs. RHP numbers (from 2013), is how his defense holds up. Many still seem to assume that he'll be a terrific right fielder, as he was in 2013 when he was worth +25 runs. Based on how he's looked in ST, where he's been discernibly more hobbled and slow (relative to what he was), and combined with needing to regress that +25 no matter how good/bad he appears now, I don't think there's any guarantee that he'll even much be above average, if at all. And, yes, it looks like he'll hit seventh. Maybe eighth if Xander comes out of the gate strong. Hopefully they'll give him a hefty amount of off-days versus right-handers, allowing Nava to step in and provide a sizable offensive boost. This is my problem, as well. I think, if everything goes well, he'll maybe be an above-average outfielder. But that's far from a guarantee ... his projections hover around the 1.5 WAR mark, which, you know, eh ... I think Rusney is probably better now, and his upside is certainly much higher, in my opinion, than the current version of Victorino. But, I'm basing that on the "current version" of Victorino being downgraded from the 2013 version. So I get the rationale behind spending some time just seeing if Victorino is as degraded physically as I expect or if he's actually closer to the dynamic outfielder he was in 2013. And if Castillo shows up in AAA as strongly as I expect him to.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 3, 2015 11:01:14 GMT -5
I don't really buy this Rusney rustiness narrative. He had 40 PAs in the majors, 39 PAs in Arizona, and 39 PAs in Puerto Rico. That's not a massive amount but it's enough to remember how to play baseball. In the spring training games he played I saw some very savvy, heads-up baserunning and at least one great defensive play. The idea that he needs more time because "he hasn't played baseball for so long" doesn't quite pass the smell test for me. He played about as much as Victorino did last season.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 3, 2015 11:05:47 GMT -5
One thing to watch with Shane, along with the inevitable massive regression in his RHH vs. RHP numbers (from 2013), is how his defense holds up. Many still seem to assume that he'll be a terrific right fielder, as he was in 2013 when he was worth +25 runs. Based on how he's looked in ST, where he's been discernibly more hobbled and slow (relative to what he was), and combined with needing to regress that +25 no matter how good/bad he appears now, I don't think there's any guarantee that he'll even be much above average, if at all. I think I mentioned this exact thing somewhere, maybe not here. I agree that his floor is lower than it used to be because there's not much chance that he's exactly as elite in the field as he was in 2013. There is even less chance that he's going to be at good hitting vs. RHP. He hasn't looked good in the field and I'm not sure if it's because he's only trying to not get hurt in ST or what. The thing I don't really get is this. They spent $72 million on Castillo and should probably be treating him as a player who is in his prime, not just some 22 year old rookie. The excess value of his contract starts now. The loyalty to Victorino (and Craig) seems a little off to me. They didn't show the same loyalty to Nava when he got sent down last year.
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Post by soxcentral on Apr 3, 2015 11:45:24 GMT -5
Agreed. Worse still would be where they hit Victorino in the lineup, because if he's our lead off hitter... They've been using pretty much the same lineup all spring when the whole starting lineup is playing, in which Victorino hits seventh. Betts laid claim to the leadoff spot a long time ago. Thank you, Chris. I hadn't really looked too closely at that. Over the course of the first 2-4 weeks I'm on board with giving Victorino a chance to prove himself over Castillo, I'm not hopeful at all its going to happen, but I do see it as the right move for Game 1 of 162 game season. Especially if he's hitting bottom third and is not a disaster in RF range-wise.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 3, 2015 13:09:25 GMT -5
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Post by sibbysisti on Apr 3, 2015 13:29:33 GMT -5
O's lost Logan Verrett, another Rule 5 selectee, to the Rangers on waivers. It appears that the last roster spot was between him and Jason Garcia. Apparently, Buck likes Jason better, although Verrett had a good ST.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Apr 3, 2015 13:43:27 GMT -5
O's lost Logan Verrett, another Rule 5 selectee, to the Rangers on waivers. It appears that the last roster spot was between him and Jason Garcia. Apparently, Buck likes Jason better, although Verrett had a good ST. I don't think it was down to them necessarily. Some projections I've googled had neither on there.
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Post by kman22 on Apr 3, 2015 13:51:36 GMT -5
Heading into the offseason, this was all Red Sox and Marlins.
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Post by jimed14 on Apr 3, 2015 14:05:00 GMT -5
Heading into the offseason, this was all Red Sox and Marlins. Haha, yeah. Didn't notice. Geez, I'm not sure how you pick Yelich as a breakout player after a 4.3 fWAR season. 8 WAR?
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Post by charliezink16 on Apr 3, 2015 14:30:27 GMT -5
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Post by dirtywater on Apr 3, 2015 14:51:27 GMT -5
Baseball is starting soon, I'm speechless as well
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Post by dirtywater on Apr 3, 2015 14:55:12 GMT -5
Steven Wright has seemingly made the team as a long man out of the bullpen. Barnes and Workman optioned.
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Post by soxfanatic on Apr 3, 2015 14:55:47 GMT -5
Steven Wright has seemingly made the team as a long man out of the bullpen. Barnes and Workman optioned. Jason Mastrodonato ?@jmastrodonato 2 min. Red Sox bullpen to start season: Mujica, Ogando, Tazawa, Breslow, Varvaro, Ross, Layne, Wright (who could start April 11)
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Post by okin15 on Apr 3, 2015 15:16:28 GMT -5
That's a surprise to me. Good for the kids, and for our SP depth, but probably not the absolute best group of pitchers we could have out in the 'pen. I'm sure we'll see both B and W pitching out of the bullpen at points this season.
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