SoxProspects News
|
|
|
|
Legal
Forum Ground Rules
The views expressed by the members of this Forum do not necessarily reflect the views of SoxProspects, LLC.
© 2003-2024 SoxProspects, LLC
|
|
|
|
|
Forum Home | Search | My Profile | Messages | Members | Help |
Welcome Guest. Please Login or Register.
Who would trade for Shane Victorino?
|
Post by jmei on Feb 22, 2015 23:15:24 GMT -5
Just spit-balling possible destinations: - Josh Hamilton just had shoulder surgery and could miss the next three months. The Angels have Collin Cowgill as a potential replacement, and while he was pretty solid last year, he had been replacement-level before that and might be better as a fourth outfielder.
- The Mariners might want a better right-handed platoon mate for Seth Smith in RF and Dustin Ackley in LF (their current options are Justin Ruggiano and Rickie Weeks).
- The Rangers might want to move Choo to LF (their existing LF options are the replacement-level melange of Michael Choice, Ryan Ludwick, and Nate Schierholtz) and add a RF.
- The White Sox are relying on Avisail Garcia in RF, and they might want a more established option at the position if they want to seriously contend this year.
- The Cubs might want more OF depth-- the Chris Coghlan/Chris Denorfia combo in LF does not inspire much confidence
Any other ideas, or additional color with regards to any of the above potential fits?
|
|
|
Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 23, 2015 1:28:00 GMT -5
Well, Baltimore for one. Markakis walked and they don't have a legitimate replacement at this point. They could certainly make use of Victorino.
|
|
|
Post by charliezink16 on Feb 23, 2015 1:37:04 GMT -5
When it comes to trading Victorino, options on a return package are limited. We have depth at every position, so it's hard to expect a 1-for-1 Victorino for _____ swap. The only options I see are trading for a prospect(s), or adding a 40-man reliever, say Edward Mujica, to the deal and upgrading our pen.
What options does that give us? No idea. Maybe Victorino and Mujica to LAA for Joe Smith? LAA could eat a significant amount of Vic's contract. I think Danny Hultzen would be an interesting bounce-back target, but he's already on the 40-man and would add to the bullpen flood. Tanner Scheppers could be another nice bounce-back guy from TEX, but I don't know how a deal would be formed around him.
Oakland also has a hole in LF (Sam Fuld/Craig Gentry) and some nice bullpen pieces. We'd obviously have to pick up a lot of Victorino's salary, but Sean Doolittle, Eric O'Flaherty, Tyler Clippard, and Ryan Cook are all pieces I'd love to have.
|
|
|
Post by bigpupp on Feb 24, 2015 15:52:13 GMT -5
Texas was the team that came to mind for me. It looks like they have a need and their prospect depth is impressive enough that we could grab a mid-teen that is interesting.
|
|
nomar
Veteran
Posts: 10,825
|
Post by nomar on Feb 24, 2015 15:59:20 GMT -5
I wonder if we could get someone who's stock has fallen like Nick Williams for Victorino.
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Feb 24, 2015 18:24:52 GMT -5
When it comes to trading Victorino, options on a return package are limited. We have depth at every position, so it's hard to expect a 1-for-1 Victorino for _____ swap. The only options I see are trading for a prospect(s), or adding a 40-man reliever, say Edward Mujica, to the deal and upgrading our pen. What options does that give us? No idea. Maybe Victorino and Mujica to LAA for Joe Smith? LAA could eat a significant amount of Vic's contract. I think Danny Hultzen would be an interesting bounce-back target, but he's already on the 40-man and would add to the bullpen flood. Tanner Scheppers could be another nice bounce-back guy from TEX, but I don't know how a deal would be formed around him. Oakland also has a hole in LF (Sam Fuld/Craig Gentry) and some nice bullpen pieces. We'd obviously have to pick up a lot of Victorino's salary, but Sean Doolittle, Eric O'Flaherty, Tyler Clippard, and Ryan Cook are all pieces I'd love to have. RE: Oakland, Doolittle has a "slight" rotator cuff tear. Makes him scary to trade for and probably makes them more inclined to hang onto some of that depth.
|
|
|
Post by jdb on Feb 28, 2015 11:09:02 GMT -5
I'm not so sure it will be Vic traded. I do think it will come down to him, Craig or maybe Nava but a lot will depend on how Craig looks vs live pitching. It's been mentioned we have a surplus right now but next years a different story. We could be replacing Napoli or even the unthinkable in Ortiz.
|
|
|
Post by voiceofreason on Feb 28, 2015 11:37:44 GMT -5
I'm a bit doubtful it will be Vic moved unless he looks so good in camp someone is willing to give up something real for him. As in a real prospect or 2. Just wouldn't make sense for the Sox based on all the variables. I can see Nava being moved first. This should be an interesting spring and an even more interesting July trade deadline. The guy I am rooting for to start hitting and jacking his value is JBjr, if that happens the Sox will really have some great decisions to make.
|
|
|
Post by larrycook on Feb 28, 2015 16:38:46 GMT -5
I do not think victorino goes anywhere.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Mar 3, 2015 13:44:02 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by dmaineah on Mar 10, 2015 11:11:35 GMT -5
I think the Nationals could use him but Nava might be a better fit for them.
Victorino for Taylor Jordan
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 10, 2015 15:02:56 GMT -5
I think the Nationals could use him but Nava might be a better fit for them. Victorino for Taylor Jordan Span is going to be back in six weeks and they have Michael Taylor in the meantime. They're fine.
|
|
|
Post by ctfisher on Mar 11, 2015 11:58:05 GMT -5
Maybe the Rockies? All-lefty outfield, that huge outfield they have out there might make them value a good defensive outfielder more, and Blackmon seems to be not that great by fWAR anyway (2.0 last year in a career year). Don't know what their budget situation is like, or who we could get back (only Rockies players or prospects I know are the big arms in the minors and Arenado, Tulo and Gonzalez, and we're not getting any of them). Still, I'd think of it as a win if we could deal him without paying his salary and get a decent bullpen arm back maybe? I'm mostly interested and making space for Mookie and Castillo
|
|
|
Post by Chris Hatfield on Mar 11, 2015 23:37:16 GMT -5
No way. Last year Blackmon was a 2.1 bWAR player and Dickerson was worth 3.4. Their outfield is set.
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Mar 12, 2015 8:43:24 GMT -5
Blackmon and Dickerson are pretty underwhelming hitters against LHP though. And while they have Stubbs to mash against southpaws in center, they could consider an upgrade over Barnes for the corners.
I'm not arguing that snagging Victorino would be a smart play for the Rox, but let's not forget that this is also a team that badly wanted Michael Cuddyer back for 2015. So badly that they offered him $15 million and were willing to forgo their top unprotected draft pick.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 12, 2015 18:59:25 GMT -5
Blackmon also did almost all his damage in a couple spurts the most significant one in April and was pretty underwhelming otherwise. He's hardly a lock. But why would Colorado want to add a guy like Victorino when their biggest issue is keeping guys healthy?
|
|
|
Post by greenmonstah on Mar 16, 2015 13:38:14 GMT -5
I think quite a few teams would have interest if the Sox covered some salary. Because of an injury plagued season last year, many have already forgotten his phenomenal 2013 season.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Mar 17, 2015 11:36:48 GMT -5
I wonder if the Sox see Victorino as a possible QO free agent this year, and if that would sway them from/for trading him. He doesn't fit on the 2016 team, but what kind of season would he have to put up to be worth a QO?
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2015 7:18:13 GMT -5
I don't think Vic is traded until the deadline, if at all and I have trouble seeing a situation where he's a QO player, if for no other reason than he will accept it if offered. A guy with his history and that designation attached to him won't get any sort of contract in free agency. He's old so it's not like he's getting a long term deal without the QO. He'd be psyched to get it offered I'm sure.
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Mar 18, 2015 8:51:53 GMT -5
I wonder if the Sox see Victorino as a possible QO free agent this year, and if that would sway them from/for trading him. He doesn't fit on the 2016 team, but what kind of season would he have to put up to be worth a QO? Absolutely not -- that's a mighty big risk for the Sox to take, and probably not smart for optimizing the 2015 team. Shane will be 35 in 2016, and to reject a QO, he'd not only need to remain healthy enough to play in a triple-digit number of games (a tough enough task for him as it is), but he'd be battling several others for playing time throughout the year, and would need to perform well during his chances. A 90 game, .730 OPS, +7 RF season isn't netting him a QO, and I think those numbers are already better than what many people expect from him.
|
|
|
Post by rjp313jr on Mar 18, 2015 9:20:49 GMT -5
I wonder if the Sox see Victorino as a possible QO free agent this year, and if that would sway them from/for trading him. He doesn't fit on the 2016 team, but what kind of season would he have to put up to be worth a QO? Absolutely not -- that's a mighty big risk for the Sox to take, and probably not smart for optimizing the 2015 team. Shane will be 35 in 2016, and to reject a QO, he'd not only need to remain healthy enough to play in a triple-digit number of games (a tough enough task for him as it is), but he'd be battling several others for playing time throughout the year, and would need to perform well during his chances. A 90 game, .730 OPS, +7 RF season isn't netting him a QO, and I think those numbers are already better than what many people expect from him. Even if that happens he's not rejecting the QO with ideas of getting more money.
|
|
|
Post by mattpicard on Mar 18, 2015 9:28:46 GMT -5
Absolutely not -- that's a mighty big risk for the Sox to take, and probably not smart for optimizing the 2015 team. Shane will be 35 in 2016, and to reject a QO, he'd not only need to remain healthy enough to play in a triple-digit number of games (a tough enough task for him as it is), but he'd be battling several others for playing time throughout the year, and would need to perform well during his chances. A 90 game, .730 OPS, +7 RF season isn't netting him a QO, and I think those numbers are already better than what many people expect from him. Even if that happens he's not rejecting the QO with ideas of getting more money. Right. He'd literally have to have a season like 2013 again to even consider rejecting a QO, but giving multiple years to a guy at his to-be age and his extreme fragility is beyond risky no matter how well he performs in 2015.
|
|
|
Post by jrffam05 on Mar 18, 2015 11:05:15 GMT -5
More of a special case, but Cuddyer rejected a QO under similar circumstances. I guess he proved very productive in his 200 AB in 2014, and the Mets deal wasn't that much, if at all, better than a qualifying offer. IMO I thought he'd be the first to accept a QO after it was extended.
As of now, the Red Sox see Victorino as a starting outfield starter with Hanley, Betts, Castillo, Craig, Nava, and Bradley on the roster. I think that would suggest they see him as more than an 730 OPS guy with defensive grades that Castillo, Betts, or Bradley could match. Maybe it's bad information on my side but they have seemed pretty reluctant to shop him around, even with the logjam in the outfield.
I wasn't suggesting it as a likely possibility, but I don't think it is so unlikely that it is a negligible factor. Outside of 2014 Victorino has put up at least 3 fWAR seasons his entire career.
|
|
|
Post by jimed14 on Mar 18, 2015 11:13:27 GMT -5
More of a special case, but Cuddyer rejected a QO under similar circumstances. I guess he proved very productive in his 200 AB in 2014, and the Mets deal wasn't that much, if at all, better than a qualifying offer. IMO I thought he'd be the first to accept a QO after it was extended. As of now, the Red Sox see Victorino as a starting outfield starter with Hanley, Betts, Castillo, Craig, Nava, and Bradley on the roster. I think that would suggest they see him as more than an 730 OPS guy with defensive grades that Castillo, Betts, or Bradley could match. Maybe it's bad information on my side but they have seemed pretty reluctant to shop him around, even with the logjam in the outfield. I wasn't suggesting it as a likely possibility, but I don't think it is so unlikely that it is a negligible factor. Outside of 2014 Victorino has put up at least 3 fWAR seasons his entire career. I don't think they're going to risk him signing the QO no matter what season he has. Napoli is a pretty sure bet, because it wouldn't kill them if he came back.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Mar 18, 2015 15:14:29 GMT -5
More of a special case, but Cuddyer rejected a QO under similar circumstances. I guess he proved very productive in his 200 AB in 2014, and the Mets deal wasn't that much, if at all, better than a qualifying offer. IMO I thought he'd be the first to accept a QO after it was extended. As of now, the Red Sox see Victorino as a starting outfield starter with Hanley, Betts, Castillo, Craig, Nava, and Bradley on the roster. I think that would suggest they see him as more than an 730 OPS guy with defensive grades that Castillo, Betts, or Bradley could match. Maybe it's bad information on my side but they have seemed pretty reluctant to shop him around, even with the logjam in the outfield. I wasn't suggesting it as a likely possibility, but I don't think it is so unlikely that it is a negligible factor. Outside of 2014 Victorino has put up at least 3 fWAR seasons his entire career. It's a slight misstatement to suggest that he rejected the QO. What actually happened was that the Rockies offered him the QO and he was prepared to accept it until the Mets came calling at the last minute and offered a slightly better deal hours before the QO deadline. I guess it's possible that another team could play the Mets' role in this situation and sign him away despite losing a draft pick in the process, but considering that that signing was almost universally criticized, I think that's not particularly likely, even with a good season from Victorino in 2015. Combine that with how unlikely it is that Victorino has that sort of season, and I tend to think the QO factor is pretty negligible in the equation of whether or not to trade him. With respect to Boston's willingness to call Victorino their starting right fielder, I think at least a good portion of that is exaggerated in order to try and establish leverage in trade talks and keep Shane happy and motivated. I think they would be happy to trade him if another team took on all of his contract and offered a fringy prospect package in return (or if another team offered a B/B+ prospect in return for the Red Sox eating a big chunk of his contract), but that offer hasn't materialized. If they started publicly talking about him as a bench player/trade candidate, it would make it more difficult to try and wring out the best possible offer from another team and would generate unnecessary drama. But I think deep down in their hearts, they'd rather have Castillo in CF, Betts in RF, and some combination of salary relief and/or a prospect or two in return.
|
|
|