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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 10, 2015 9:51:21 GMT -5
I assume Ball will repeat Salem, as he seems to be age appropriate for High A. Didn't he have a good second half?....Though he's been an overall disappointment for a 7 pick, don't think we need to write him off just yet.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 10, 2015 16:03:16 GMT -5
How is that tweet even remotely related to Trey Ball? They were in the same draft but I don!t see any correlation because of Biertemple's opinion. It's being said because there were a bunch of people who would have thought that the Sox would have taken Meadows instead of Ball with the thought that the Sox were pretty hot for Clint Frazier and Meadows and him were always linked with the thought that one of them could be a fallback option if the other was off the board, but instead the Sox thought they'd take a chance on the athleticism and rawness of Trey Ball, so they passed on Meadows. Time will tell if they regret it. There's a better than non-zero chance they could. Guess we'll see how it plays out. Right on! That was my point. Ball was an outfielder/pitcher in HS. He was drafted out of graduation and told to concentrate on pitching. He's got a lot to learn for such a youngster. Pitchers often take longer to mature. Got to be patient with this kid.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 12, 2015 22:42:16 GMT -5
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Trey Ball
Nov 13, 2015 7:06:13 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by soxfan1615 on Nov 13, 2015 7:06:13 GMT -5
It's unfortunate that we had a GM who clearly had no idea what he was doing when we had the highest pick we've had in years, but you can't get too worked up about it. Sure, it was completely idiotic to draft an old, unknown HS pitcher who didn't even have good stuff (all he had was "projectability") but we've since replaced the GM and our franchise looks to be in much better shape. Ball was projected to go between picks 8 and 15. The only reason the Sox taking him was so surprising was because he hadn't been linked to them at all while Meadows had been. If it was a reach, it was only a slight one. No need to go so hard on the hyperbole. Not saying a reach, saying picking a HS pitcher that high is dumb.
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Post by Smittyw on Nov 13, 2015 7:25:46 GMT -5
I heard somebody picked a high school pitcher at #7 a few years back and that turned out kind of okay.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 13, 2015 8:28:26 GMT -5
I heard somebody picked a high school pitcher at #7 a few years back and that turned out kind of okay.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 13, 2015 9:02:43 GMT -5
Yes drafting highschool pitchers in the top 7 is very dumb. Because Clayton Kershaw, Dylan Bundy, James Taillon, and Archie Bradley were HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE decisions.
If I wanted to cheat a little, I might be inclined to put Strasburg on that list and seeing how it can take 3-4+ years for highschool talent to develop there is probably at least one more name that belongs on that list that is in someones system right now.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 13, 2015 9:39:29 GMT -5
Yes drafting highschool pitchers in the top 7 is very dumb. Because Clayton Kershaw, Dylan Bundy, James Taillon, and Archie Bradley were HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE decisions. I'm not actually sure what case you're making here.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 13, 2015 10:09:43 GMT -5
Yes drafting highschool pitchers in the top 7 is very dumb. Because Clayton Kershaw, Dylan Bundy, James Taillon, and Archie Bradley were HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE decisions. I'm not actually sure what case you're making here. Kershaw has been the best pitcher in baseball the last 6 or 7 years. The other 3 look to be on the cusp of good MLB careers themselves potentially. Bundy and Taillon have had injury concerns the last few years but are both just 22 and 23 and ranked 28/25/11 and 29/31/26 this year, both were arguably top 10 prospects before injury concerns. We can get into an argument on whether or not they will recover but that is pretty irrelevant. Are we talking about the talent available in the top 10? or are we talking about high school pitchers risk of injury vs. college pitchers/hitters and high school hitters??? The talent they have and had shown is irrefutable. Bradley was ranked 28/25/11 in all of baseball this year and has had a great minor league career. Yes, he didn't shine at the MLB level this year but he's also only 22 with 35 innings under his belt. Again, the case is the potential you could have from a top ten high school pitcher, and good talent is there. And while Bundy and Taillon have concerns the upside is still there and the potential they provide is still apparent and an indictment of what picking in the top ten provides. Ignore the injuries, IMO that's irrelevant and a different topic.
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Post by sibbysisti on Nov 13, 2015 11:54:27 GMT -5
Yes drafting highschool pitchers in the top 7 is very dumb. Because Clayton Kershaw, Dylan Bundy, James Taillon, and Archie Bradley were HORRIBLE, and I mean HORRIBLE decisions. I'm not actually sure what case you're making here. he was refuting soxfan1615's point that drafting a HS pitcher that high ( Ball) is dumb.
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Post by greatscottcooper on Nov 13, 2015 11:56:23 GMT -5
I'm not actually sure what case you're making here. he was refuting soxfan1615's point that drafting a HS pitcher that high ( Ball) is dumb. Yes thank you, I probably should have been more clear about that....my bad.
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Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 13, 2015 13:58:29 GMT -5
I'm not actually sure what case you're making here. Kershaw has been the best pitcher in baseball the last 6 or 7 years. The other 3 look to be on the cusp of good MLB careers themselves potentially. Bundy and Taillon have had injury concerns the last few years but are both just 22 and 23 and ranked 28/25/11 and 29/31/26 this year, both were arguably top 10 prospects before injury concerns. We can get into an argument on whether or not they will recover but that is pretty irrelevant. Are we talking about the talent available in the top 10? or are we talking about high school pitchers risk of injury vs. college pitchers/hitters and high school hitters??? The talent they have and had shown is irrefutable. Bradley was ranked 28/25/11 in all of baseball this year and has had a great minor league career. Yes, he didn't shine at the MLB level this year but he's also only 22 with 35 innings under his belt. Again, the case is the potential you could have from a top ten high school pitcher, and good talent is there. And while Bundy and Taillon have concerns the upside is still there and the potential they provide is still apparent and an indictment of what picking in the top ten provides. Ignore the injuries, IMO that's irrelevant and a different topic. I guess the counterpoint is that all those guys were more highly regarded than Ball coming into the draft (I think?), and three of them are looking pretty dicy right now. Rankings aside, the reports I've heard on Bundy from the AFL have been pretty terrible, Bradly has serious issues with control and pitch mix, and Taillon didn't pitch this year (he'll probably be fine but still). You can always point to Kershaw and say the upside justifies it, but I'm at least open to the idea that spending first round picks on high school pitchers just isn't a great investment. I just found it kind of interesting that of the four guys you named, three of them are kinda shaky (various levels of shakiness of course) for even having good MLB careers.
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Trey Ball
Nov 13, 2015 14:16:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jimed14 on Nov 13, 2015 14:16:35 GMT -5
I'm going to go do a project where I find the best player available at each draft pick over the last 10 years and then whine everyday about how the Red Sox didn't draft every one of them.
How many years will this continue for?
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Post by grandsalami on Nov 13, 2015 14:24:01 GMT -5
I'm going to go do a project where I find the best player available at each draft pick over the last 10 years and then whine everyday about how the Red Sox didn't draft every one of them. How many years will this continue for? it will get worse when we have an international draft
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Post by 0ap0 on Nov 13, 2015 14:24:57 GMT -5
How many years will this continue for? Until he starts pitching better, dammit!
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2015 14:32:05 GMT -5
I'm going to go do a project where I find the best player available at each draft pick over the last 10 years and then whine everyday about how the Red Sox didn't draft every one of them. How many years will this continue for? You love making these types of slippery slope arguments, but they don't get you as far as you think they do. Lots of folks disagreed with the Ball pick at the time, and so far, it looks like they were right. It's fine to disagree with those folks-- the Red Sox gambled on upside and lost, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad gamble to begin with-- but there are legitimate points being made about the wisdom of taking a raw high school pitcher (the riskiest type of draft pick) so early in the draft.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 13, 2015 15:50:51 GMT -5
I'm going to go do a project where I find the best player available at each draft pick over the last 10 years and then whine everyday about how the Red Sox didn't draft every one of them. How many years will this continue for? You love making these types of slippery slope arguments, but they don't get you as far as you think they do. Lots of folks disagreed with the Ball pick at the time, and so far, it looks like they were right. It's fine to disagree with those folks-- the Red Sox gambled on upside and lost, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad gamble to begin with-- but there are legitimate points being made about the wisdom of taking a raw high school pitcher (the riskiest type of draft pick) so early in the draft. I got that loud and clear about 5 billion times. Should we talk about it again tomorrow?
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Post by jmei on Nov 13, 2015 15:57:10 GMT -5
If you don't like it, you don't have to read it. At this point, you're just whining about whining.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 13, 2015 16:04:15 GMT -5
Yep, this is where I wish proboards had an 'ignore thread' feature. Since it doesn't, and I read every post on these boards, I read the repetitive comments. It's pretty strange that people continue to have the exact same arguments and discussions for 2.5 years. There is nothing left to be said about drafting him at #7 in a really terrible draft. I'd understand it if it's someone new starting the conversation again but it's not.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 13, 2015 16:08:04 GMT -5
I'm going to go do a project where I find the best player available at each draft pick over the last 10 years and then whine everyday about how the Red Sox didn't draft every one of them. How many years will this continue for? You love making these types of slippery slope arguments, but they don't get you as far as you think they do. Lots of folks disagreed with the Ball pick at the time, and so far, it looks like they were right. It's fine to disagree with those folks-- the Red Sox gambled on upside and lost, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad gamble to begin with-- but there are legitimate points being made about the wisdom of taking a raw high school pitcher (the riskiest type of draft pick) so early in the draft. It may just be my perception.....it did not seem that Cherington had any "feel" for drafts/trades.....like Pablo for instance, he simply said we need a 3B, so sign the best one out there, done....Porcello, saying he's ahead of his prime, so give him the deal, done.....I know in 2013 he hit every move, & I give him credit, just since then, he's hit on donut. He's a very smart guy, just don't think he has that good baseball feel. Hope Dombrowski has it.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
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Post by steveofbradenton on Nov 13, 2015 16:10:56 GMT -5
You are probably right.
But wait one more year.
Young Trey is growing and getting stronger as we speak.
What's that? Trey has added 2 mph to his 4 seamer.
Lets give the kid 2016 and then we reconvene.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Nov 13, 2015 16:43:12 GMT -5
You are probably right. But wait one more year. Young Trey is growing and getting stronger as we speak. What's that? Trey has added 2 mph to his 4 seamer. Lets give the kid 2016 and then we reconvene. Agree....Living in Winston-Salem, I saw him when Salem came to town & he had a good live arm, wasn't knocked around. A few broken bat/seeing eye singles, he really made a lot of hitters look silly......Another year in the Carolina League should get him on track.
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Post by juanpena on Nov 13, 2015 17:21:42 GMT -5
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jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,982
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Post by jimoh on Nov 13, 2015 18:27:04 GMT -5
Yep, this is where I wish proboards had an 'ignore thread' feature. Since it doesn't, and I read every post on these boards, I read the repetitive comments. It's pretty strange that people continue to have the exact same arguments and discussions for 2.5 years. There is nothing left to be said about drafting him at #7 in a really terrible draft. I'd understand it if it's someone new starting the conversation again but it's not. I hate repetitive remarks as much as anyone, and if you had said "There is nothing left to say," that would be great. But to say "there is nothing left to say except my final comment that he was a reasonable pick because it was a really terrible draft," it's a little lame.
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Post by deepjohn on May 20, 2016 13:49:25 GMT -5
You are probably right. But wait one more year. Young Trey is growing and getting stronger as we speak. What's that? Trey has added 2 mph to his 4 seamer. Lets give the kid 2016 and then we reconvene. Agree....Living in Winston-Salem, I saw him when Salem came to town & he had a good live arm, wasn't knocked around. A few broken bat/seeing eye singles, he really made a lot of hitters look silly......Another year in the Carolina League should get him on track. Update:
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