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Post by ctfisher on Jul 23, 2015 14:13:09 GMT -5
I know it doesn't/shouldn't matter, but I would be so pissed off to see us give up Henry Owens to get back a guy we trade for Andrew Bailey. I also don't see the point in upgrading our outfield now when we should probably be finding out what Castillo and Bradley are capable of in the majors/not actively trying to improve. Don't like the idea of giving up pitching to find a bat either at this stage; I'm inclined to believe that the offense will most likely fix itself, especially if we can eliminate the two black holes in the lineup (1B and RF). Admittedly Reddick would solve RF, but I'd rather we tried an internal solution before giving up prospects
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 23, 2015 14:16:16 GMT -5
I agree that we should be looking to thin out the herd in RF, not looking to trade for another. There is no indication that (A) the Red Sox are looking to trade for Reddick or (B) that Reddick is on the market (to the contrary, Beane said no to LAA when they asked about Reddick).
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2015 14:39:04 GMT -5
I wonder if the A's would be interested in Castillo with about $30 million thrown in. Maybe we could get Beane for him.
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Post by jmei on Jul 23, 2015 15:00:32 GMT -5
After the Samardzija and Donaldson deals, I'm not really sure I want Beane.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 23, 2015 15:02:09 GMT -5
After the Samardzija and Donaldson deals, I'm not really sure I want Beane. Buy low! I'm just kidding of course. But I wouldn't be shocked to see that talk start in the offseason again.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 23, 2015 15:57:38 GMT -5
Oh mets fans. I feel for you “@jessespector: I asked Alderson if David Wright's insurance situation gives the Mets more financial flexibility for a trade. He said no.” “ mike_Vorkunov: Alderson says the insurance money Mets have recouped from Wright's deal won't allow them more financial flexibility in trades”
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Post by arzjake on Jul 23, 2015 19:52:14 GMT -5
Oh mets fans. I feel for you “@jessespector: I asked Alderson if David Wright's insurance situation gives the Mets more financial flexibility for a trade. He said no.” “ mike_Vorkunov: Alderson says the insurance money Mets have recouped from Wright's deal won't allow them more financial flexibility in trades” We'll see how broke NY is when Harvey is up!
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 23, 2015 21:56:16 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Jayson Stark on Baseball Tonight says the Red Sox are in and actively trying to get Cole Hamels. Trying to agree on prospect package.”
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Post by taftreign on Jul 23, 2015 23:23:34 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Jayson Stark on Baseball Tonight says the Red Sox are in and actively trying to get Cole Hamels. Trying to agree on prospect package.” I get he is under control for the next three seasons but I don't have a great feeling about Hamels in the AL East and specifically in Boston. If it's going to take one or two A prospects then this is the wrong type of pitcher to target IMO, an aging ace who is more a 2 or 3 in the next few seasons. I know it's hard to find organizations willing to trade young pitching but with patience, which may mean waiting until the off season, I think some possibilities will show themselves. If your talking Margot and Johnson as the main pieces I guess it's more palatable but not if its Swihart, Owens, Devers or Guerra. Wouldn't be surprised if any deal would have Philadelphia getting a return of Victorino to balance some salary and allow him to potentially end his career in Philly if he hung it up. Ben is feeling the pressure from Boston fans. Not as if this is going to save the season but he can try to sell this as hope for next year. Still the wrong decision I believe.
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Post by arzjake on Jul 23, 2015 23:49:36 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Jayson Stark on Baseball Tonight says the Red Sox are in and actively trying to get Cole Hamels. Trying to agree on prospect package.” I get he is under control for the next three seasons but I don't have a great feeling about Hamels in the AL East and specifically in Boston. If it's going to take one or two A prospects then this is the wrong type of pitcher to target IMO, an aging ace who is more a 2 or 3 in the next few seasons. I know it's hard to find organizations willing to trade young pitching but with patience, which may mean waiting until the off season, I think some possibilities will show themselves. If your talking Margot and Johnson as the main pieces I guess it's more palatable but not if its Swihart, Owens, Devers or Guerra. Wouldn't be surprised if any deal would have Philadelphia getting a return of Victorino to balance some salary and allow him to potentially end his career in Philly if he hung it up. Ben is feeling the pressure from Boston fans. Not as if this is going to save the season but he can try to sell this as hope for next year. Still the wrong decision I believe. Hamels is an Ace. 32 next spring. If the Sox make a move it's for 16. Contract is reasonable for the production. Why are many hesitant about pitching in the AL East or pitching in the AL in general? Pedro survived as did Schilling. The prospects u mentioned seem to have promise. For an Ace all are expendable. I'll say it again, 16 payroll minus player options was at 98 million add arb players roughly 105 with Hamels 125, Ortiz returns 136, enough room for a second ace and bullpen help
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redsox04071318champs
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jul 23, 2015 23:54:32 GMT -5
I get he is under control for the next three seasons but I don't have a great feeling about Hamels in the AL East and specifically in Boston. If it's going to take one or two A prospects then this is the wrong type of pitcher to target IMO, an aging ace who is more a 2 or 3 in the next few seasons. I know it's hard to find organizations willing to trade young pitching but with patience, which may mean waiting until the off season, I think some possibilities will show themselves. If your talking Margot and Johnson as the main pieces I guess it's more palatable but not if its Swihart, Owens, Devers or Guerra. Wouldn't be surprised if any deal would have Philadelphia getting a return of Victorino to balance some salary and allow him to potentially end his career in Philly if he hung it up. Ben is feeling the pressure from Boston fans. Not as if this is going to save the season but he can try to sell this as hope for next year. Still the wrong decision I believe. Hamels is an Ace. 32 next spring. If the Sox make a move it's for 16. Contract is reasonable for the production. Why are many hesitant about pitching in the AL East or pitching in the AL in general? Pedro survived as did Schilling. The prospects u mentioned seem to have promise. For an Ace all are expendable. I'll say it again, 16 payroll minus player options was at 98 million add arb players roughly 105 with Hamels 125, Ortiz returns 136, enough room for a second ace and bullpen help It's debatable if he's a true ace anymore or how much of one he'd be over the next several seasons. He's not exactly pitching great for Philly right now and I'm not anxious to see the Red Sox start giving up their most prized possessions, young talent, when they can always go the free agency route. Man, for $20 million extra over 6 years the Sox could have avoided all this by simply signing Lester. Let's see who they lose for Hamels that makes it worth saving $20 million over 6 years.
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Post by auger1 on Jul 24, 2015 8:39:01 GMT -5
I don't know if this is the right place to put this but I really wonder about the value our prospects have in the 10-20 range. I would really like to see what a Marrero/Coyle/Cecchini trio would fetch. They are all completely blocked and will likely never see consistent AB's for the Red Sox yet they all seem good enough to earn major league AB's for some team. Could this fetch a decent to good relief pitcher under team control for a couple seasons? Maybe a lesser version of Brock Holt so we can trade him for more value? At this point the only young guns that I would even consider trading (obvious caveats apply) are Owens and Margot and if they are on the table you expect a good young player under team control to come back. Coyle and Cecchini have virtually no trade value. Perhaps they could be a 3rd/4th piece in a large trade. Coyle has some local value to PHI. The time to have traded Coyle was last offseason when he was healthy and on the rise. Marrero could be potentially traded for a 6th/7th inning bullpen arm to the right team that needs a glove-first utility guy. If you are going to trade for value, your candidates (taking into account demand and likelihood of a trade) are: 1. Uehara 2. De Aza 3. Holt 4. Tazawa/Ogando/Breslow/Layne/Ross 5. Ortiz 6. Pedroia Trading jetsam and flotsam in the hopes you will improve the club is wishcasting at best and outright fantasy at worst. From the prospect pool, I'd be looking to use Margot, JBJ, Owens and/or Johnson as trade bait. If you really wanted to trade high on prospects, Guerra, Espinoza, Kopech and Devers would be your best bet, with Light also a possibility. I am not advocating this, nor do I expect it to happen. People want to trade a bunch of nickels for a quarter. Life (and baseball) doesn't work that way. I completely agree with your idea of who to use for trade bait. I also agree with who should be traded. I am hoping De Aza and Napoli to the Mets for a decent-good lottery ticket. However, isn't Holt supposed to have a lot of value? I know Cafardo and McAdam have recently said that he has more trade interest than Zobrist and have even gone as far as to recommend Ben to trade him when his value is highest. I think Koji and Holt (traded individually) could actually bring the Sox back 2 Top 10 prospects (which hopefully can be used to supplement the next great Red Sox teams or put together with Margot and Johnson to go after a big fish type player)
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 24, 2015 8:47:59 GMT -5
We have a fuller Holt discussion in this subforum, but basically yes. We've been focusing on some NL teams (NYM, PIT, WAS, etc).
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Post by larrycook on Jul 24, 2015 9:43:27 GMT -5
“@redsoxstats: Jayson Stark on Baseball Tonight says the Red Sox are in and actively trying to get Cole Hamels. Trying to agree on prospect package.” Is bc in full desperation mode now?
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 24, 2015 14:08:26 GMT -5
Dave Cameron has an interesting analysis of the market for pitching right now. www.fangraphs.com/blogs/so-are-we-in-a-buyers-market-now/He says a buyer's market may be developing because a number of teams that thought they were going to be contenders no longer are. The result is that more pitchers may be available at the deadline than the the number being sought. There only are a few teams now looking for pitching to help them this season. If San Diego and Detroit become sellers the market could be flooded and values will go down. They may already have gone down. He thinks Texas may be the only team now still seriously interested in Hamels and they may back off. In my opinion, the Phillies may have blown their chance to maximize his value. He doesn't say much about the Red Sox other than what everyone knows. If he is right, there are going to be pitchers available for whom there is no ready market. Unfortunately, they are pitchers like Dan Haren, who no team in its right mind would want, unless they just need to fill a spot and don't much care about the results. I don't think any of the contenders is looking for a closer. That probably rules out trading Uehara, which is fine with me. The really good pitchers on the market, Hamels excepted, are going to be free agents. The best strategy for the Sox concerning pitching might be to wait for the off season. However, if San Diego becomes a seller, then Ross would be a good target and there could be a good matchup between the Sox and them.
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Post by amfox1 on Jul 24, 2015 14:24:02 GMT -5
I don't think any of the contenders is looking for a closer. That probably rules out trading Uehara, which is fine with me. John Heyman reports that the Red Sox have received hits on Victorino, Uehara and Tazawa. Doesn't mean anything will come of it, but that's what he is reporting.
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danr
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Post by danr on Jul 24, 2015 14:33:21 GMT -5
Yes, I just read that. Victorino could help a contender. After last night I don't know about Tazawa. St. Louis just added Cishek, which may take them out of the market.
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Post by Guidas on Jul 24, 2015 14:57:08 GMT -5
I don't think any of the contenders is looking for a closer. That probably rules out trading Uehara, which is fine with me. John Heyman reports that the Red Sox have received hits on Victorino, Uehara and Tazawa. Doesn't mean anything will come of it, but that's what he is reporting. Good gracious, what would anyone offer for Victorino at this point? I love what he did for the Sox in 2013 but aside from being a platoon OF vs. LHP and a late inning defensive replacement, when he's healthy, he's all used up. In retrospect, he was basically a 1.3 year, $39 million contract.
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Post by grandsalami on Jul 24, 2015 15:03:49 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Dodgers, #RedSox among many teams asking on #Indians’ starters. CLE not motivated to act; would need to be “very compelling deal.””
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Post by Guidas on Jul 24, 2015 15:08:11 GMT -5
If Cherington makes a deal involving some top 5 prospects or a major current piece who is signed beyond 2016 in would be a strong indication that ownership has assured him he's not going anywhere because they would presumably have to approve any such deal.
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Post by jdb on Jul 24, 2015 15:33:58 GMT -5
“@ken_Rosenthal: Sources: #Dodgers, #RedSox among many teams asking on #Indians’ starters. CLE not motivated to act; would need to be “very compelling deal.”” I wonder what Willis thinks of Bauer? He'd be the cheapest to acquire and still has upside.
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Post by jimed14 on Jul 24, 2015 16:10:10 GMT -5
Yes, I just read that. Victorino could help a contender. After last night I don't know about Tazawa. St. Louis just added Cishek, which may take them out of the market. One game shouldn't change any opinions on Tazawa.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jul 24, 2015 17:01:56 GMT -5
Mets have Niese on the market. They want Pedroia. De Aza & Victorino fit with the Mets, but they wont pay Vic's salary.
JBJ looks to be part of the Hamels deal. You heard it on Soxprospects.com first.
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Post by jdb on Jul 25, 2015 10:44:50 GMT -5
in Speier's blog he said teams were asking a lot about Holt and some said he'd get more than Zobriest.
Rosenthall tweet Exec on market: “If you’ve got a hitter, you’ve got gold. If you’ve got a pitcher, you’ve got a hot potato.” Surplus of pitchers available.
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Post by jdb on Jul 25, 2015 12:42:22 GMT -5
Why trade and hope to re-sign Cueto? Figure odds are low anyone two months from free agency is going to sign.
Red Sox Stats tweet
Globe: The Red Sox are "all-in" on Cueto, hoping to trade and sign. They have been in talks for Carlos Carassco, Sonny Gray & with the Mets. 1:15pm - 25 Jul 15
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