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6/23-6/25 Red Sox vs. Orioles Series Thread
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 23, 2015 21:51:00 GMT -5
I've listened to Remy and I've listened to Castiglione. nobody done figured out yet that Kratz is likely/possibly a replacement for Leon with Leon outrighted. Keep talkin like Kratz is here for 2 days.
Shaw gotta be 1B on WED
much NESN talk about Victorino not activated until homestand next FRI. avoid artificial turf on the road trip.
I Cannot BELIEVE that Leon was allowed to bat in the 9th inning.
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Post by FenwayFanatic on Jun 23, 2015 22:05:23 GMT -5
Go Oakland!
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Jun 23, 2015 22:14:06 GMT -5
Jeez, this team can't beat anybody in the AL East. The Sox are helping the entire division to stay above .500.
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Post by klostrophobic on Jun 23, 2015 22:16:57 GMT -5
Joe Kelly to the pen sounds better and better every time I see Any reliever other than Taz or Koji. Mediocre as it gets Joe Kelly should be DFA'd. What is he going to do as a relief pitcher? His command sucks. His stuff sucks. He is not a useful pitcher in any way. Get rid of him. Get rid of Masterson. Get rid of like 5 other guys and look at 2016. Short season ball has started, we don't need the big league club. Get Betts, Bogaerts, Rodriguez, Castillo, Swihart, Bradley, Barnes and Holt as many atbats and innings as you can and build on them.
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Post by DesignatedForAssignment on Jun 23, 2015 22:22:10 GMT -5
(the problem with inane posts is that people come here and read them and some will think they might have a basis in reality.)
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,945
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 23, 2015 22:28:12 GMT -5
Put up your hand if you predicted before the season that the Sox bench on 6/23 would be Alejandro De Aza, Travis Shaw, Sandy Leon, and Eric Kratz. That's pretty much "things have not gone as planned" in a nutshell.
On a more substantive note, this team needs two very good relievers, a righty who can join Tazawa as a high-leverage guy, relegating Ogando to lower leverage, and a lefty who can also pitch in the 7th and 8th, so that Layne becomes more of a matchup and medium-leverage guy. It's certainly worth giving Kelly a shot at the first job (although you'd obviously start him out at lower leverage). I've been calling for Cherington to trade for a reasonably studly LHR for a while now.
I'd recall Johnson to take Kelly's spot in the rotation, and option Ross. Breslow can be moved if they can trade for the LHP, please God. Wright's in line to replace ether Johnson, or Masterson as the long man -- who should be on a very short leash.
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Post by larrycook on Jun 23, 2015 22:46:41 GMT -5
Put up your hand if you predicted before the season that the Sox bench on 6/23 would be Alejandro De Aza, Travis Shaw, Sandy Leon, and Eric Kratz. That's pretty much "things have not gone as planned" in a nutshell. I understand what you are trying to say, but who could have predicted Vasquez and hanigan going down with injury? sometimes you have to play with the hand you get dealt.
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ericmvan
Veteran
Supposed to be working on something more important
Posts: 8,945
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Post by ericmvan on Jun 23, 2015 23:05:13 GMT -5
Put up your hand if you predicted before the season that the Sox bench on 6/23 would be Alejandro De Aza, Travis Shaw, Sandy Leon, and Eric Kratz. That's pretty much "things have not gone as planned" in a nutshell. I understand what you are trying to say, but who could have predicted Vasquez and hanigan going down with injury? sometimes you have to play with the hand you get dealt. That is what I was trying to say. All of the folks insisting the team was never good to begin with (CHB, etc.) and thus pinning all the blame on Cherington are forgetting little things like the 5th and 12th best catchers in MLB (roughly) both getting hurt and being replaced by two guys below replacement level (although I do blame Cherington for not getting someone better after the Hanigan injury), the team losing three wins to BABIP luck and another two or three to bad clutch hitting, which may well be real but does not represent any shortage of talent, or Pablo Sandoval, always an average defender, costing them a win in 40% of a season ... etc. (I haven't yet put a number on the pitching bad karma).
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Post by redsox4242 on Jun 23, 2015 23:20:19 GMT -5
Missed the game today, was Kellys performance a result of bad luck or did he just not execute his pitches?
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Post by bookiemetts on Jun 23, 2015 23:43:50 GMT -5
The following gives a pretty good picture of this team's offensive struggles: Position
| | wRC+ | | MLB rank | C |
| 59
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| 26 | 1B |
| 83 |
| 28 | 2B |
| 127 |
| 4 | SS |
| 100 |
| 7 | 3B |
| 94 |
| 16 | RF |
| 52 |
| 30 | CF |
| 113 |
| 6 | LF |
| 93 |
| 16 | DH |
| 96 |
| 11 (AL only) |
With the injuries to the catchers you could expect this issue. Even with Vazquez healthy, we wouldn't really even care about his offense really. Right field has been a literal black hole. 1B has also been horrible, all of which is pretty easy to see. But going forward, we should expect some improvement going forward, especially next year. The best hitting positions on the team should be around and productive for a while including Mookie, Xander and Dustin. CVaz and Swihart should improve with experience, and I think Sandoval and Hanley may still turn it around this season, not that they're horrible offensively. Napoli will be gone next year so whatever they choose to do there should be an improvement, and they should be able to upgrade RF pretty easily, whether through Castillo or JBJ.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2015 5:28:30 GMT -5
Reading about proposed relief pitcher transactions in this thread, it feels like Matt Barnes has fallen off the face of the earth. Steamer projects him for a 3.59 ERA as a relief pitcher. Not great, but probably an upgrade over Ogando at least.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 24, 2015 5:39:44 GMT -5
The following gives a pretty good picture of this team's offensive struggles: Position
| | wRC+ | | MLB rank | C |
| 59
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| 26 | 1B |
| 83 |
| 28 | 2B |
| 127 |
| 4 | SS |
| 100 |
| 7 | 3B |
| 94 |
| 16 | RF |
| 52 |
| 30 | CF |
| 113 |
| 6 | LF |
| 93 |
| 16 | DH |
| 96 |
| 11 (AL only) |
With the injuries to the catchers you could expect this issue. Even with Vazquez healthy, we wouldn't really even care about his offense really. Right field has been a literal black hole. 1B has also been horrible, all of which is pretty easy to see. But going forward, we should expect some improvement going forward, especially next year. The best hitting positions on the team should be around and productive for a while including Mookie, Xander and Dustin. CVaz and Swihart should improve with experience, and I think Sandoval and Hanley may still turn it around this season, not that they're horrible offensively. Napoli will be gone next year so whatever they choose to do there should be an improvement, and they should be able to upgrade RF pretty easily, whether through Castillo or JBJ. Those number match up with the eye test. I feel bad for Swihart. It wasn't just the arm chair scouts who didn't think he was ready. The real scouts thought he needed more time at AAA. But Xander has made huge gains after an awful first year, hopefully Swihart will also. He has all the tools.
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Post by okin15 on Jun 24, 2015 8:48:06 GMT -5
I mean, you had to think that Ortiz would be a top half DH, and ditto with Hanley (at least with the bat) and don't even get me started on Napoli. All this talk about Hanley's defense ignores the real problem... that he's not hitting like he should be. Those three can only (have to) get better, but we have to hope our SS and CF hold up and that we don't get hit by injuries (really haven't had many bad ones other than C.)
RF will probably improve a little with Holt playing more and Shanf hopefully playing for a stretch here.
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Post by Guidas on Jun 24, 2015 9:16:07 GMT -5
Missed the game today, was Kellys performance a result of bad luck or did he just not execute his pitches? It was the result of him being Joe Kelly.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2015 10:33:58 GMT -5
It was the result of him being Joe Kelly. Joe Kelly can be pretty awesome. In his first five starts this year he was rocking a 3.24 SIERA. Unfortunately, he also had quite a bit of bad luck. John Farrell twice incorrectly hooked him mid-inning. I can't help but wonder how much John Farrell and the Boston media beating up on him made him think he needed to make adjustments that he did not need to make, resulting in a 4.92 SIERA in the 9 games since. Anyway, I may have mentioned this before, but John Farrell needs to be fired.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 24, 2015 10:46:20 GMT -5
It was the result of him being Joe Kelly. Joe Kelly can be pretty awesome. In his first five starts this year he was rocking a 3.24 SIERA. Unfortunately, he also had quite a bit of bad luck. John Farrell twice incorrectly hooked him mid-inning. I can't help but wonder how much John Farrell and the Boston media beating up on him made him think he needed to make adjustments that he did not need to make, resulting in a 4.92 SIERA in the 9 games since. Anyway, I may have mentioned this before, but John Farrell needs to be fired. A stat guy making mental excuses for a pitcher who has had the same problem his whole career(control/command). Irony meet math. The manager has started him every 5thn day, he can't throw strikes for him.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2015 10:57:19 GMT -5
A stat guy making mental excuses for a pitcher who has had the same problem his whole career(control/command). Irony meet math. Yup, I prefer to back up my arguments with stats rather than personal insults. Am I in the wrong place then?
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Post by Guidas on Jun 24, 2015 11:01:39 GMT -5
It was the result of him being Joe Kelly. Joe Kelly can be pretty awesome. In his first five starts this year he was rocking a 3.24 SIERA. Unfortunately, he also had quite a bit of bad luck. John Farrell twice incorrectly hooked him mid-inning. I can't help but wonder how much John Farrell and the Boston media beating up on him made him think he needed to make adjustments that he did not need to make, resulting in a 4.92 SIERA in the 9 games since. Anyway, I may have mentioned this before, but John Farrell needs to be fired. I'm not interested in cause, real or theorized. His performance is awful and unacceptable at this juncture. If he needs to be fixed send him down. He's useless to this team as a starter right now.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 24, 2015 11:15:17 GMT -5
A stat guy making mental excuses for a pitcher who has had the same problem his whole career(control/command). Irony meet math. Yup, I prefer to back up my arguments with stats rather than personal insults. Am I in the wrong place then? Fair enough, I insulted all stat guys with that post. But you can't have it both ways. You have repeatedly used stats without regard for human traits. The manager knows more about those than any of us. Not in regard to Kelly but here's my main example. Tom Kelly caught much grief for not starting Dan Gladden on day games after night games for the Twins ,even against lefties whom he hit well. Kelly stayed quiet till both were retired. He then told the story that Dan went out o the town after night games and wasn't fit to pay most day games. Gladden admitted the facts but said he wasn't in as bad a shape as the manager said. Humanity. Edit for possible Kelly confussion.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2015 11:26:13 GMT -5
Knowing who goes out drinking is fine and well but first and foremost I believe it would be nice to have a manager who knows about baseball. The rest is a bonus.
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Post by ray88h66 on Jun 24, 2015 11:42:20 GMT -5
Knowing who goes out drinking is fine and well but first and foremost I believe it would be nice to have a manager who knows about baseball. The rest is a bonus. His in game management is weak, but he knows the game. Lester and Clay B have both spoken about how much he's helped them. He may very well be replaced after this year. Plenty of blame to go around after a year like this. But Joe Kelly's troubles aren't on the manager or the media.
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Post by caseytins on Jun 24, 2015 12:08:17 GMT -5
In my opinion, Kelly needs to be sent to Pawtucket and Johnson needs to get called up. I would keep Kelly as a starter, because I think that is where he profiles best. He obviously needs to work on command issues, especially with his fastball. I would also start to play Holt a lot at first base and give Rusney consistent ABs with the MLB club once the catching situation gets straightened out.
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Post by mgoetze on Jun 24, 2015 12:14:47 GMT -5
Knowing who goes out drinking is fine and well but first and foremost I believe it would be nice to have a manager who knows about baseball. The rest is a bonus. His in game management is weak, but he knows the game. Lester and Clay B have both spoken about how much he's helped them. He may very well be replaced after this year. Plenty of blame to go around after a year like this. But Joe Kelly's troubles aren't on the manager or the media. He does not understand the difference between bad pitching and bad results. There is a lot of random variation in baseball and you couldn't get that into John Farrell's head even with a heavy hammer. He is repeatedly on record as letting small sample size garbage influence his lineup decisions. So what if Farrell's loveboy of the day had a great game against the pitcher we're facing two years ago when that pitcher was coming off an injury and they were playing in great weather in a hitter-friendly park? It doesn't mean a damn thing but Farrell will use it as an excuse. Your idiotic mathphobia will prevent you from understanding it, but it is proven that earned runs in early innings have zero predictive value for earned runs in later innings. Yet John Farrell will hook a starter who has only throw 82 pitches and who has been striking out opposing batters at a career-high rate to bring in Craig f'ing Breslow to face a bases-loaded 0-out situation. John Farrell might be an OK pitching coach but he does not understand baseball the way a manager needs to understand baseball.
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Post by jmei on Jun 24, 2015 12:20:04 GMT -5
This is entirely unnecessary-- make your point without calling other posters names. Tone it down. You've been warned about this before. Thanks.
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Post by ethanbein on Jun 24, 2015 12:21:28 GMT -5
It was the result of him being Joe Kelly. Joe Kelly can be pretty awesome. In his first five starts this year he was rocking a 3.24 SIERA. Unfortunately, he also had quite a bit of bad luck. John Farrell twice incorrectly hooked him mid-inning. I can't help but wonder how much John Farrell and the Boston media beating up on him made him think he needed to make adjustments that he did not need to make, resulting in a 4.92 SIERA in the 9 games since. Anyway, I may have mentioned this before, but John Farrell needs to be fired. I'm no fan of John Farrell, but that's just silly. Joe Kelly has a career 4.20 xFIP as a starter. Joe Kelly has a 4.12 2015 xFIP. Joe Kelly projects for a 4.31 ERA. Joe Kelly is not a good starter - 5 arbitrary starts don't change that. He has terrible command and that doesn't seem to be changing. Can't blame John Farrell for that one.
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