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Sox Sign Shane Victorino: 3yrs/$39mil
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2012 18:10:18 GMT -5
Didn't SV have a wrist injury last season? could be the cause of his down year
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Post by nothingball on Dec 4, 2012 18:13:13 GMT -5
Victorino is another great clubhouse, great community guy. He will always show up and play hard and has played in a major market. Also brings elite GG defense and speed to the lineup Is it an overpay? Absolutely, but we didn't give up a draft pick and aren't risking the future of our club with long term deals. A This cannot be overlooked. For the past 2 years it's pretty clear this clubhouse has lacked leadership.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 4, 2012 18:18:04 GMT -5
ust wow by overpaying him with ridiculous contract. Just like Julio Lugo. I think it's insurance for the Red Sox as Ellsbury will depart in next year as FA. He'll move over to CF from RF in season 2014. They couldn't afford him with Boras as his agent. It's too bad to see Cody Ross out of Boston after one season as they rather to give 3 yr to Shane with minimum power (career high: 19 HR/69 RBI in 9 MLB seasons). Read more: forum.soxprospects.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=188&page=34#ixzz2E7xsXkpiThis is the polar opposite of Lugo. Victorino is a great defense outfielder with a below average bat. Lugo was a below average fielder who was supposed to have a great bat.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 4, 2012 18:31:11 GMT -5
ust wow by overpaying him with ridiculous contract. Just like Julio Lugo. The Sox infamously traded Rick Porcello for Lugo. I hated that signing but it wouldn't have been bad if we hadn't coughed up the pick. Here they're giving up absolutely nothing.
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Post by templeusox on Dec 4, 2012 18:41:56 GMT -5
RE: Victorino as a character guy
He threw a well-publicized fit last year in Philly when Manuel dropped him to 7th in the order when he was slumping. It led to him getting benched.
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Post by soxrchamps07 on Dec 4, 2012 18:49:49 GMT -5
Has there been any reports of Victorino's diminished bat speed or declining speed/defensive skills? Because Victorino has been a 3-5 WAR player over the course of his career, and even with a down year last year he still put up a 2.4 WAR.
I'm not physced about giving 40 Million to an aging outfield who best skills are speed and defense, but this contract is not the albatross most of you all are making this out to be.
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Post by elguapo on Dec 4, 2012 18:55:03 GMT -5
I would have easily taken a Nava/Ross platoon and saved the money. Nava in right field? Or Nava/Ross in CF if/when they trade Ellsbury? As it is they have Victorino & Kalish in RF for a few million more per year. Why should anyone else care about allowing the owners to pocket a few million more per year?
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Post by grandsalami on Dec 4, 2012 18:55:07 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 4, 2012 18:59:08 GMT -5
Has there been any reports of Victorino's diminished bat speed or declining speed/defensive skills? I heard his skills were diminishing (report out of the Dodgers organization). On the other hand, his line drive percentage in 2012 was 17.8 % higher than 2010 or 2011, but lower than his career. His BABIP was .278 down from his career average of .296.
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Post by bluechip on Dec 4, 2012 18:59:44 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox. Wow. the CF market is crazy this off season.
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Post by curiousle on Dec 4, 2012 19:02:16 GMT -5
Is it great-no, is it even good-probably not, but I think there is a plan. 1). Pitching and defense-and Victorino can give you defense-pitching will come, because I agree with a previous poster that this will speed the Ellsbury out of town talk. Ells is gone and a pitcher should be coming back. 2). Other than Bradley the prospects in the outfield are question marks-this buys time and also let's Brentz/Kalish et, al determine if there is a prospect who's a major leaguer. 3). It doesn't cost us picks
The Jays are loaded up for the win next year and the following-that's their window-we're not seriously contending until 2015/2016.
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Post by beasleyrockah on Dec 4, 2012 19:08:25 GMT -5
The Dodgers gave up talent to acquire Gonzalez, Crawford, and Beckett. I don't care about their personal projection of declining veteran talent.
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Post by remember04 on Dec 4, 2012 19:10:45 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox. Wow. the CF market is crazy this off season. Yeah it is and maybe just maybe after everybody else is off the market we flip Ellsbury to one of the CF losers for something decent.
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Post by rjp313jr on Dec 4, 2012 19:21:55 GMT -5
RE: Victorino as a character guy He threw a well-publicized fit last year in Philly when Manuel dropped him to 7th in the order when he was slumping. It led to him getting benched. It's a little unfair to point to one incident when the rest of his career is way more publicized as the opposite. That well publicized incident was also refuted by Charlie Manuel and backtracked by the initial reporter as "dumb speculation". There is pretty much no evidence that he's anything but a good teammate. There are plenty of reasons to hate the contract, his character just isn't one of them. Now is he still a good player? I hope so but I'm not confident in that.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 4, 2012 19:23:57 GMT -5
Ken Rosenthal @ken_Rosenthal Sources: #Indians’ offer to Victorino was 4 yrs, $44 million. Evidence of their flexibility. Victorino got $2M per yr more from #RedSox. Thank God the Sox had the "flexibility" to sign Shane Victorino. Honestly, if the Sox weren't going to try to top Texas with offering more $/year and match 4 years for Hamilton, then why not offer Ichiro an 1 year $10 million deal? They'd get great defense from him and he can still hit decently. Offensively he's not a good overall player, but I'd take him at one year rather than Victorino at three years. I don't see the point of tying up a mediocrity for 3 years. And I don't think unless Ellsbury has another 2011 type season come 7/31, that the Sox will get much for Ellsbury.
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Post by leo on Dec 4, 2012 19:39:15 GMT -5
OK signing IMO. Preserves draft pick, good RF defense with a strong arm, excellent baserunner, and sees a lot of pitches. Consistent with Farrell's vision of the ballclub. They clearly overpaid, but that seems to be the norm this offseason.
Baserunning and defense are not as sexy as homers and RBI's, but just as important to winning close games and championships.
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dcb26
Rookie
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Member is Online
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Post by dcb26 on Dec 4, 2012 19:46:35 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one, or one of few, but I love the way the Sox are approaching this offseason. What I see is a plan which focuses on holding on to prospects/young talent, addressing the weak spots on the roster without losing their financial flexibility and maintaining the ability to sign someone to a high-value contract should the right player emerge, and changing the culture of the team.
It looks to me like the Sox focused on the type of players they needed to bring in (versatile +defensive outfielder, reliable backup catching options, offensive players with good OBP skills etc) rather than getting stuck on any one individual player, and then went signed the players who best fit those needs.
I don't love deal Victorino got, I'm not sure I love the deals Gomes, Napoli, or Ross got, but they allowed the Sox to bring in the guys they wanted without sacrificing their salary room or young talent, and gained a lot of positional flexibility in the process.
I don't know, maybe I'm just desperate for some reason to feel good about this team, but I really like what I've seen so far, and it looks to me that what's happened so far is setting up additional moves that will follow.
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Post by SlugLife on Dec 4, 2012 19:47:36 GMT -5
Shane Victorino's UZR ratings in left and right field are insanely good. +16.1 in 1133 innings in right field, including a full season of experience in 2007, and +8.7 in 586 innings in left field, including everyday experience in 2012 with the Dodgers. That is where his value is. Plus, considering that as recently as last year he was a competent major league center fielder, his corner defense is likely not going anywhere in the next three seasons.
He's appealing for all the same reasons that Carl Crawford was as a free agent, except that a) Victorino has a better walk rate, b) Victorino is a big market guy with track record of thriving in Philly, and c) Victorino will cost $100 less than Crawford at the end of their contracts.
I know he had a down year, but I like this signing. I think Victorino will thrive in Boston and has a good chance to bounce back with a healthy wrist in 2013.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 4, 2012 19:52:01 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one, or one of few, but I love the way the Sox are approaching this offseason. What I see is a plan which focuses on holding on to prospects/young talent, addressing the weak spots on the roster without losing their financial flexibility and maintaining the ability to sign someone to a high-value contract should the right player emerge, and changing the culture of the team. It looks to me like the Sox focused on the type of players they needed to bring in (versatile +defensive outfielder, reliable backup catching options, offensive players with good OBP skills etc) rather than getting stuck on any one individual player, and then went signed the players who best fit those needs. I don't love deal Victorino got, I'm not sure I love the deals Gomes, Napoli, or Ross got, but they allowed the Sox to bring in the guys they wanted without sacrificing their salary room or young talent, and gained a lot of positional flexibility in the process. I don't know, maybe I'm just desperate for some reason to feel good about this team, but I really like what I've seen so far, and it looks to me that what's happened so far is setting up additional moves that will follow. I'm with you
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Post by jmei on Dec 4, 2012 19:53:35 GMT -5
I hope Jacoby Ellsbury is packing his bags. I hear Philly is beautiful this time of year.
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Post by jdb on Dec 4, 2012 19:57:37 GMT -5
Im fine with it. Basically we took Crawfords game and put it in a more spacious RF for a half of the cost. like it or not the deal is about what the market dictates and we didn't give up a draft pick or prospects that could be used to upgrade the rotation or SS. It looks like his so called tantrum was idle speculation by a beat writer. hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/08/shane-victorinos-day-off-is-apparently-due-to-a-temper-tantrum/UPDATE: The earlier incarnation of this story referring to Shane Victorino getting mad at being placed seventh in the order and then being scratched by Charlie Manuel is, as they say, no longer operative. That report came from Rob Parent, the sports editor of the Delco Times. After it came out, Charlie Manuel denied it, saying that Victorino was “down on himself” because of poor recent play and that Manuel scratched him for that reason. No other Philly writer corroborated Parent’s tweet. Parent has since backtracked on that tweet, calling it “dumb speculation” on his part.
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steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,823
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Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 4, 2012 20:18:36 GMT -5
Maybe I'm the only one, or one of few, but I love the way the Sox are approaching this offseason. What I see is a plan which focuses on holding on to prospects/young talent, addressing the weak spots on the roster without losing their financial flexibility and maintaining the ability to sign someone to a high-value contract should the right player emerge, and changing the culture of the team. It looks to me like the Sox focused on the type of players they needed to bring in (versatile +defensive outfielder, reliable backup catching options, offensive players with good OBP skills etc) rather than getting stuck on any one individual player, and then went signed the players who best fit those needs. I don't love deal Victorino got, I'm not sure I love the deals Gomes, Napoli, or Ross got, but they allowed the Sox to bring in the guys they wanted without sacrificing their salary room or young talent, and gained a lot of positional flexibility in the process. I don't know, maybe I'm just desperate for some reason to feel good about this team, but I really like what I've seen so far, and it looks to me that what's happened so far is setting up additional moves that will follow. I'm with you Me too! They HAVE over spent for each player they have tied up, but I LOVE that they are short-term contracts. I'm also totally on-board of NOT losing their 2nd rounder. Lets get a starter now Ben. I'm NOT for Lohse because of the draft choice. See if Anibel will take a 4 year contract for $16 million per year, and lets get to Ft Myers!
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Post by Guidas on Dec 4, 2012 20:19:44 GMT -5
Keith Law on Victorino (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/law_keith/id/8711965/shane-victorino-deal-boston-red-sox-doomed-fail-mlb):
Excerpt:
Shane Victorino's three-year, $39 million contract with the Boston Red Sox vaults to the top of the ranking of the worst contracts signed so far this offseason, giving him virtually the same total dollars that Angel Pagan -- a superior player -- will receive in a contract that's a year longer...Victorino is a platoon outfielder at this point, and paying him $13 million a year, even with the rapid salary escalation we're seeing this offseason, is mad as pants. His bat speed was noticeably slower in 2012, especially later in the season, and despite being a switch-hitter he doesn't really hit right-handed pitching.
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Post by mainesox on Dec 4, 2012 20:25:51 GMT -5
Supposedly part of the reason they have gone after the guys they have is because they don't cost a draft pick, so I really hope they don't blow it by losing a draft pick for Kyle Freaking Lohse.
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Post by jioh on Dec 4, 2012 20:27:47 GMT -5
Keith Law on Victorino (http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/law_keith/id/8711965/shane-victorino-deal-boston-red-sox-doomed-fail-mlb): Excerpt: Shane Victorino's .... Law also says "the Philadelphia Phillies are the team most in need of a center fielder ... [so] Michael Bourn .....[or] Josh Hamilton ... or try to swing a trade for Ellsbury using their few remaining young assets, like Domonic Brown, Vance Worley, or Trevor May."
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