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Post by Coreno on Aug 13, 2016 19:02:47 GMT -5
That actually sums up my thoughts pretty well. He is basically free, with the only opportunity cost being a roster spot. And with a few of those guys performing poorly and probably banged up, I was thinking the same thing, maybe toss Taz on the DL, get him healthy for the stretch run, and he can be back right about when rosters expand. I'm not saying they need to get him, I just think he's worth a look most likely. Two weeks ago his ERA was just about 2.50.
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ianrs
Veteran
Posts: 2,414
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Post by ianrs on Aug 13, 2016 19:04:55 GMT -5
He is basically free, with the only opportunity cost being a roster spot. Well, at any point he could chokeslam Mookie Betts if Betts makes an error or something, so there's that. I'll pass on Papelbon, I think he's too much of a clubhouse headache to be worth his current value added as a player; if anything, I call up Hembree as a reinforcement if Tazawa has to be DL'ed.
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Post by Coreno on Aug 13, 2016 19:16:25 GMT -5
I think most of the clubhouse stuff is overblown with him. Sure, he's a dickhead, and so is Harper, which is probably the main reason for that incident. The fans in Philly suck and so did his team. He sounds willing to return here in whatever capacity, which makes me think he's less likely to act out like he did when he was frustrated in Philly. He'll never be an alter boy, but I don't remember him ever having any significant clubhouse issues when he was here before.
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Post by jmei on Aug 13, 2016 19:57:04 GMT -5
He is basically free, with the only opportunity cost being a roster spot. Even if there was a roster spot available, I don't really see the argument for signing him. He's got a 4.22 SIERA and a 3.68 FIP in the NL East this year and is down to 90.9 MPH with his fastball. At this point, I think there is a legitimate question whether he is any better than Heath Hembree.
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Post by larrycook on Aug 13, 2016 21:12:18 GMT -5
I think most of the clubhouse stuff is overblown with him. Sure, he's a dickhead, and so is Harper, which is probably the main reason for that incident. The fans in Philly suck and so did his team. He sounds willing to return here in whatever capacity, which makes me think he's less likely to act out like he did when he was frustrated in Philly. He'll never be an alter boy, but I don't remember him ever having any significant clubhouse issues when he was here before. I think papelbon has been and will continue to be a clubhouse cancer everywhere he goes. I would rather have hembree in the team than papelbon.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 13, 2016 21:17:09 GMT -5
MLB trade rumors mentioned the Cubs as a potential destination for Papelbon which makes a lot of sense. That's where I'd go if I were him. If Theo wasn't shy about adding Chapman I doubt he'd have an issue with Papelbon, especially since he's very familiar with him.
As far as the Sox go, it's not that hard to imagine him as one of the 11 if the Sox make the post-season. Right now Buchholz or Erod would be the leader for the 11th spot (4 man rotation and 7 man pen), but Papelbon could fit.
But as others have said, Hembree could be a better option, which isn't a ridiculous position to take at all. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of this.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 13, 2016 21:27:56 GMT -5
MLB trade rumors mentioned the Cubs as a potential destination for Papelbon which makes a lot of sense. That's where I'd go if I were him. If Theo wasn't shy about adding Chapman I doubt he'd have an issue with Papelbon, especially since he's very familiar with him. As far as the Sox go, it's not that hard to imagine him as one of the 11 if the Sox make the post-season. Right now Buchholz or Erod would be the leader for the 11th spot (4 man rotation and 7 man pen), but Papelbon could fit. But as others have said, Hembree could be a better option, which isn't a ridiculous position to take at all. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of this. I'd think right now that Rodriguez has the edge over Pomeranz. He's pitching FAR better, and he's a much better bet to go deep into a game.
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fenwayfaithful
Rookie
A prospect is fun to watch, but trading him for a sure thing in the Majors is never a losing deal.
Posts: 114
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Post by fenwayfaithful on Aug 14, 2016 3:54:00 GMT -5
Papelbon is a low risk high reward option. He's also our saves leader. Being a class act organization, we could at least give him a chance and if it doesn't work out he can retire with us. I think its a win-win for both sides.
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Post by artfuldodger on Aug 14, 2016 7:33:34 GMT -5
I have not seen Papelbon pitch this year. Has anyone seen Papelbon pitch enough this year to know if he is pitching well enough to help the Red Sox.
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Post by amfox1 on Aug 14, 2016 8:12:18 GMT -5
Papelbon is a low risk high reward option. He's also our saves leader. Being a class act organization, we could at least give him a chance and if it doesn't work out he can retire with us. I think its a win-win for both sides. Your second sentence is silly; the Red Sox should make a baseball decision, and Pap is not so universally loved within the organization that there is any risk that the organization will make a tug-at-the-heartstrings decision in any event. Hey, let's check in on Bob Stanley! Seriously, there is still a roster issue. If Taz needed to go on the DL, then maybe Pap could be a possibility to be added to the roster, since you can then bring up Hembree and Kelly and add back Taz on Sept. 1 without repercussion if Pap duds out. Otherwise, I don't see who he replaces on the 25-man roster.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Aug 14, 2016 8:26:31 GMT -5
MLB trade rumors mentioned the Cubs as a potential destination for Papelbon which makes a lot of sense. That's where I'd go if I were him. If Theo wasn't shy about adding Chapman I doubt he'd have an issue with Papelbon, especially since he's very familiar with him. As far as the Sox go, it's not that hard to imagine him as one of the 11 if the Sox make the post-season. Right now Buchholz or Erod would be the leader for the 11th spot (4 man rotation and 7 man pen), but Papelbon could fit. But as others have said, Hembree could be a better option, which isn't a ridiculous position to take at all. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of this. I'd think right now that Rodriguez has the edge over Pomeranz. He's pitching FAR better, and he's a much better bet to go deep into a game. You could make an argument of E-Rod over Pomeranz as the #4 starter if things remain as is. I also think Pomeranz, having experienced success as a reliever, could be more suited to be a key guy out of the bullpen in the post-season. If the Sox made the post-season this would be my 25 man roster as of today: Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts, Ortiz, Bradley, Ramirez, Shaw, Leon, Benintendi My five bench guys would be: Vazquez/Hill/Holt/Young (assuming he's ready), and Moncada My starting 4 could be: Porcello/Wright/Price/E-Rod My 7 relievers would be: Kimbrel/Ziegler/Barnes/Tazawa/Pomeranz/Ross/Buchholz at this point. The relievers are variable at this point. We don't know how healthy Tazawa is. Kimbrel's health is still questionable. I'm assuming Uehara won't be healthy or effective enough. Abad might simply be Abad pitcher and not worthy of a roster spot or my stupid pun. Hembree or Kelly could be candidates, although I'd choose Hembree before Kelly, who I don't trust as a reliever or a starter. If the Sox picked up Papelbon, I'd probably place him before Buchholz, Abad, Hembree, and Kelly in the pecking order, although I could see why others would prefer Hembree (or anybody else).
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Post by ryan24 on Aug 14, 2016 9:33:20 GMT -5
I'd think right now that Rodriguez has the edge over Pomeranz. He's pitching FAR better, and he's a much better bet to go deep into a game. You could make an argument of E-Rod over Pomeranz as the #4 starter if things remain as is. I also think Pomeranz, having experienced success as a reliever, could be more suited to be a key guy out of the bullpen in the post-season. If the Sox made the post-season this would be my 25 man roster as of today: Pedroia, Bogaerts, Betts, Ortiz, Bradley, Ramirez, Shaw, Leon, Benintendi My five bench guys would be: Vazquez/Hill/Holt/Young (assuming he's ready), and Moncada My starting 4 could be: Porcello/Wright/Price/E-Rod My 7 relievers would be: Kimbrel/Ziegler/Barnes/Tazawa/Pomeranz/Ross/Buchholz at this point. The relievers are variable at this point. We don't know how healthy Tazawa is. Kimbrel's health is still questionable. I'm assuming Uehara won't be healthy or effective enough. Abad might simply be Abad pitcher and not worthy of a roster spot or my stupid pun. Hembree or Kelly could be candidates, although I'd choose Hembree before Kelly, who I don't trust as a reliever or a starter. If the Sox picked up Papelbon, I'd probably place him before Buchholz, Abad, Hembree, and Kelly in the pecking order, although I could see why others would prefer Hembree (or anybody else). WOW some interesting choices. First 9 a no brainer. With the 5 bench guys Vasquez will have to gain Farrell's confidence that he can hit. I think it is a very good choice. Holt and hill are very solid. If young is not ready, what do you do then? Make holt the 4th of and bring up Hernandez? Moncada I think depends on when they bring him up and how he does in September against big league pitching? If he bombs out who then do you add? 4 starters are definitely solid. Drew and clay I think are redundant. Both long relief/emergency starter. Taz if he gets some rest between now and the end of the season is a good pick. Ziegler, barnes, and ross are all good. Kimbrel hopefully is healthy. Hembree is probably my choice and drop either clay or drew. Tough choice either way. I like the positive feel we are going to be in the playoffs.
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Post by soxfanatic on Aug 16, 2016 12:53:57 GMT -5
MLB Network Radio @mlbnetworkradio Farrell on Jonathan Papelbon "we've talked about it, there's some real strong points to 'Pap' that could be an addition here"
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 16, 2016 13:21:16 GMT -5
I'm okay with Papelbon as a human being because I doubt he would choke someone on the team, you just know Ortiz would murder him if he did. However, I'm not so sure he's still a good pitcher, his K/9 has been atrocious for a few years now and I'm not sure this team need another mediocre reliever. I'd pass, but I wouldn't be offended if the Red Sox think differently.
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Post by wcsoxfan on Aug 16, 2016 15:31:10 GMT -5
I'm okay with Papelbon as a human being because I doubt he would choke someone on the team, you just know Ortiz would murder him if he did. However, I'm not so sure he's still a good pitcher, his K/9 has been atrocious for a few years now and I'm not sure this team need another mediocre reliever. I'd pass, but I wouldn't be offended if the Red Sox think differently. Just a little hyperbolic - his 8 K/9 each of the last 2 years isn't what it used to be, but it is solid. I'd be more worried about the 3.6 BB/9 this year.
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Post by Don Caballero on Aug 16, 2016 16:42:08 GMT -5
Just a little hyperbolic - his 8 K/9 each of the last 2 years isn't what it used to be, but it is solid. I'd be more worried about the 3.6 BB/9 this year. You're right, I kind of meant it's atrocious compared to his previous standards. He's absolutely not the same pitcher he was.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 16, 2016 16:45:19 GMT -5
This is a disaster waiting to happen.
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Post by GyIantosca on Aug 16, 2016 16:46:34 GMT -5
If I was Martin agent I would push to get out of here this offseason.
I like to see Kelly pitch from the bullpen. Farrell needs someone else to step up.
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Post by umassgrad2005 on Aug 16, 2016 23:33:34 GMT -5
MLB trade rumors mentioned the Cubs as a potential destination for Papelbon which makes a lot of sense. That's where I'd go if I were him. If Theo wasn't shy about adding Chapman I doubt he'd have an issue with Papelbon, especially since he's very familiar with him. As far as the Sox go, it's not that hard to imagine him as one of the 11 if the Sox make the post-season. Right now Buchholz or Erod would be the leader for the 11th spot (4 man rotation and 7 man pen), but Papelbon could fit. But as others have said, Hembree could be a better option, which isn't a ridiculous position to take at all. It'll be interesting to see what becomes of this. I'd think right now that Rodriguez has the edge over Pomeranz. He's pitching FAR better, and he's a much better bet to go deep into a game. I agree he is pitching better, but the numbers don't back up the claim he's much better bet to go deep into a game. Last 5 starts Pomeranz 30 1/2 innings, ERod 27 innings. Pomeranz pitched 6 or more innings 3 out of 5 games and ERod did it in 2 out of 5 games.
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Post by telson13 on Aug 17, 2016 0:28:15 GMT -5
I'd think right now that Rodriguez has the edge over Pomeranz. He's pitching FAR better, and he's a much better bet to go deep into a game. I agree he is pitching better, but the numbers don't back up the claim he's much better bet to go deep into a game. Last 5 starts Pomeranz 30 1/2 innings, ERod 27 innings. Pomeranz pitched 6 or more innings 3 out of 5 games and ERod did it in 2 out of 5 games. That's true; I'd extrapolated (in my mind) Rodriguez's results from last year (when he was basically a 6+-inning pitcher if you don't count his few catastrophic starts). Pomeranz, even when pitching well in SD this year, was still a sub-6 guy. But with the DH (and no pinch-hitter pulls) in the AL and Rodriguez's injury/recovery, you're right, they're both 5-6 inning guys. Hopefully Rodriguez's injury tonight is minor enough that he doesn't miss a turn. I still prefer his upside in the postseason, but Pomeranz's shouldn't be discounted, either. He certainly had a very good start the other day. At 27, I hold out hope that he's the 2 they thought they were getting, not the 5 he looked like when he first came over. He's been much better lately, so maybe he's settling in. Nice problem to have...Pomeranz has bullpen experience, and Rodriguez could be a huge bullpen asset in the postseason. Now they just have to get there. Edit: without the NL pinch-hitter pulls, Pomeranz may be allowed to get deeper in games, too...so he may be a 6-7 inning pitcher if he reproduces something approaching his NL performance. Another argument against my offhand assessment.
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Post by deepjohn on Aug 17, 2016 3:29:26 GMT -5
Technically, in the post-season, David Price needs to go to the bullpen. He's just not as good as the other four right now.*
Right now, he's giving up more hard contact than the others and his K-BB rate is not enough better to make up for the contact.
But Price should have enormous value in the bullpen in the post-season. With the extra days of rest, he might see almost as many batters as he would as a starter.
* Now, that's not a knock on Price, as much as a testament to how good the other four are. And yes, at some point, Price should regress to his projection, but until then, he's not as good.
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Post by burythehammer on Aug 17, 2016 9:37:42 GMT -5
Will they have room for him with Kopech there?
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Post by telson13 on Aug 17, 2016 10:04:57 GMT -5
Technically, in the post-season, David Price needs to go to the bullpen. He's just not as good as the other four right now.* Right now, he's giving up more hard contact than the others and his K-BB rate is not enough better to make up for the contact. But Price should have enormous value in the bullpen in the post-season. With the extra days of rest, he might see almost as many batters as he would as a starter. * Now, that's not a knock on Price, as much as a testament to how good the other four are. And yes, at some point, Price should regress to his projection, but until then, he's not as good. Key word being "technically." I agree with you, but it'll never happen. With the questionable performance of their as-constituted 'pen, it's tough to say whether he would have more value potentially going deep into games, or (I would argue) pitching like he did in 2008. The salary and the organizational drive to preserve his psyche, to me, says almost no chance he goes into relief. Which begs the question: is what they have enough? Or are they just the 2013 Tigers with a better offense and worse starting pitching?
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Post by sox fan in nc on Aug 17, 2016 10:20:27 GMT -5
Technically, in the post-season, David Price needs to go to the bullpen. He's just not as good as the other four right now.* Right now, he's giving up more hard contact than the others and his K-BB rate is not enough better to make up for the contact. But Price should have enormous value in the bullpen in the post-season. With the extra days of rest, he might see almost as many batters as he would as a starter. * Now, that's not a knock on Price, as much as a testament to how good the other four are. And yes, at some point, Price should regress to his projection, but until then, he's not as good. My concern is with Steven Wright. Surprised no one has mentioned him. It won't be 72 degrees with no humidity in October. Plus his shoulder has to heal. Obviously if he regains his early season success, he'll be in..................Edit: it probably won't be humid, but October has quirky weather, cold mist, damp, ect.
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Post by deepjohn on Aug 17, 2016 16:48:10 GMT -5
Will they have room for him with Kopech there? Oh, don't tempt me, you beguiling temptress you. Tomorrow is Kopech day.
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