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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:44:32 GMT -5
p23w likes this
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 15:44:32 GMT -5
Boras is all about himself, just like the owners. He does what he has to do to make the most possible money, just like the owners.
There is no side to pick.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:46:52 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 15:46:52 GMT -5
Boras is all about himself, just like the owners. He does what he has to do to make the most possible money, just like the owners. There is no side to pick. I can see that too. His loyalty lies with the players and himself for sure. My general point was that team ownerships are big evil machines.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:47:30 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 15:47:30 GMT -5
Basically skynet.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:52:18 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 15:52:18 GMT -5
Boras is all about himself, just like the owners. He does what he has to do to make the most possible money, just like the owners. There is no side to pick. I can see that too. His loyalty lies with the players and himself for sure. My general point was that team ownerships are big evil machines. To expand further, Boras has the power and ability to change the way teams pay minor league players so they're not living in poverty anymore. But he doesn't because there isn't any money involved for him. He's hardly a crusader for the poor and downtrodden.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:59:07 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 15:59:07 GMT -5
I can see that too. His loyalty lies with the players and himself for sure. My general point was that team ownerships are big evil machines. To expand further, Boras has the power and ability to change the way teams pay minor league players so they're not living in poverty anymore. But he doesn't because there isn't any money involved for him. He's hardly a crusader for the poor and downtrodden. haha no he doesn't. And he is trying to get revenue splits back to favoring the players. And he fights hard for his players stuck in the minors to get up to the ML level, like Ozuna who was screwed by the Marlins.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 16:05:34 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 16:05:34 GMT -5
To expand further, Boras has the power and ability to change the way teams pay minor league players so they're not living in poverty anymore. But he doesn't because there isn't any money involved for him. He's hardly a crusader for the poor and downtrodden. haha no he doesn't. And he is trying to get revenue splits back to favoring the players. And he fights hard for his players stuck in the minors to get up to the ML level, like Ozuna who was screwed by the Marlins. He's working for the star players and that's about it. If they aren't stars, they probably were supposed to be at some point.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 16:19:49 GMT -5
Post by Guidas on Nov 23, 2015 16:19:49 GMT -5
haha no he doesn't. And he is trying to get revenue splits back to favoring the players. And he fights hard for his players stuck in the minors to get up to the ML level, like Ozuna who was screwed by the Marlins. He's working for the star players and that's about it. If they aren't stars, they probably were supposed to be at some point. I don't see the problem in this. You see it in other fields that deal with talent and use agents. The power agents only rep the name talent or the talent they think will be big names. It's all a business. Sports are businesses with very short career spans for players. I have zero issue with these guys chasing the top dollar if that's what they really want, especially when they are being paid by billionaires and corporations. It's rare to find a player who will take a discount during his prime to go to the team that gives him the best opportunity to win. You and I say, "What's a few million less a year when you're talking 7 or 8 figure annual salaries?" and I'm sure we'd all have that perspective. Then again, these are almost always guys who have been the best or among the best at every level, so they don't often have a fan's perspective. They've been blessed with natural gifts and have been rewarded for these gifts in some way probably since they were 9 or 10 years old, so seeing more money to them usually equals a validation of their overall excellence. That's their perspective, or so I've been told. Would that we were all so gifted.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 16:31:19 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 16:31:19 GMT -5
He's working for the star players and that's about it. If they aren't stars, they probably were supposed to be at some point. I don't see the problem in this. You see it in other fields that deal with talent and use agents. The power agents only rep the name talent or the talent they think will be big names. It's all a business. Sports are businesses with very short career spans for players. I have zero issue with these guys chasing the top dollar if that's what they really want, especially when they are being paid by billionaires and corporations. It's rare to find a player who will take a discount during his prime to go to the team that gives him the best opportunity to win. You and I say, "What's a few million less a year when you're talking 7 or 8 figure annual salaries?" and I'm sure we'd all have that perspective. Then again, these are almost always guys who have been the best or among the best at every level, so they don't often have a fan's perspective. They've been blessed with natural gifts and have been rewarded for these gifts in some way probably since they were 9 or 10 years old, so seeing more money to them usually equals a validation of their overall excellence. That's their perspective, or so I've been told. Would that we were all so gifted. I only brought it up because it was implied that we should be rooting for Boras, not for the evil corporate owners. I said that's not a real choice because I root for the cheaper players to get enough money to retire on and for the minor league players to not be treated like slaves. There is way more than enough money for everyone, but Boras is only trying to expand the $200 million contracts to a half billion, because that's what will make him the most money. No one is looking out for the little people in baseball, just like how it works in real life. I really hope the minimum salary is doubled in the next CBA and that they expand rosters to 26 and add the DH to the NL. But that's all money taken from the owners and not given to the star players, so I really doubt it happens. There are at least 3 sides in this battle, and only 2 of them are represented.
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Post by Guidas on Nov 23, 2015 16:50:53 GMT -5
I don't see the problem in this. You see it in other fields that deal with talent and use agents. The power agents only rep the name talent or the talent they think will be big names. It's all a business. Sports are businesses with very short career spans for players. I have zero issue with these guys chasing the top dollar if that's what they really want, especially when they are being paid by billionaires and corporations. It's rare to find a player who will take a discount during his prime to go to the team that gives him the best opportunity to win. You and I say, "What's a few million less a year when you're talking 7 or 8 figure annual salaries?" and I'm sure we'd all have that perspective. Then again, these are almost always guys who have been the best or among the best at every level, so they don't often have a fan's perspective. They've been blessed with natural gifts and have been rewarded for these gifts in some way probably since they were 9 or 10 years old, so seeing more money to them usually equals a validation of their overall excellence. That's their perspective, or so I've been told. Would that we were all so gifted. I only brought it up because it was implied that we should be rooting for Boras, not for the evil corporate owners. I said that's not a real choice because I root for the cheaper players to get enough money to retire on and for the minor league players to not be treated like slaves. There is way more than enough money for everyone, but Boras is only trying to expand the $200 million contracts to a half billion, because that's what will make him the most money. No one is looking out for the little people in baseball, just like how it works in real life. I really hope the minimum salary is doubled in the next CBA and that they expand rosters to 26 and add the DH to the NL. But that's all money taken from the owners and not given to the star players, so I really doubt it happens. There are at least 3 sides in this battle, and only 2 of them are represented. 4 sides, if you count the next-to-be-screwed international players when they implement the "international draft."
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 17:22:40 GMT -5
Post by juanpena on Nov 23, 2015 17:22:40 GMT -5
In the end and after the weeks of discussion, Boras client Matt Harvey pitched 216 innings last year. Plus two hitters too many.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 17:42:50 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 17:42:50 GMT -5
haha no he doesn't. And he is trying to get revenue splits back to favoring the players. And he fights hard for his players stuck in the minors to get up to the ML level, like Ozuna who was screwed by the Marlins. He's working for the star players and that's about it. If they aren't stars, they probably were supposed to be at some point. umm... and?
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 17:44:08 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 17:44:08 GMT -5
I don't see the problem in this. You see it in other fields that deal with talent and use agents. The power agents only rep the name talent or the talent they think will be big names. It's all a business. Sports are businesses with very short career spans for players. I have zero issue with these guys chasing the top dollar if that's what they really want, especially when they are being paid by billionaires and corporations. It's rare to find a player who will take a discount during his prime to go to the team that gives him the best opportunity to win. You and I say, "What's a few million less a year when you're talking 7 or 8 figure annual salaries?" and I'm sure we'd all have that perspective. Then again, these are almost always guys who have been the best or among the best at every level, so they don't often have a fan's perspective. They've been blessed with natural gifts and have been rewarded for these gifts in some way probably since they were 9 or 10 years old, so seeing more money to them usually equals a validation of their overall excellence. That's their perspective, or so I've been told. Would that we were all so gifted. I only brought it up because it was implied that we should be rooting for Boras, not for the evil corporate owners. I said that's not a real choice because I root for the cheaper players to get enough money to retire on and for the minor league players to not be treated like slaves. There is way more than enough money for everyone, but Boras is only trying to expand the $200 million contracts to a half billion, because that's what will make him the most money. No one is looking out for the little people in baseball, just like how it works in real life. I really hope the minimum salary is doubled in the next CBA and that they expand rosters to 26 and add the DH to the NL. But that's all money taken from the owners and not given to the star players, so I really doubt it happens. There are at least 3 sides in this battle, and only 2 of them are represented. Gosh the reading comprehension is terrible on this site. I never said root for Boras. Ever. If you choose to read things horrifically wrong, I can't help you with that.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 19:48:37 GMT -5
Post by wcsoxfan on Nov 23, 2015 19:48:37 GMT -5
Why is Jose Fernandez taking hits? Did he saw anything wrong? All I read is him pointing out that when he is in a meeting with the team he gets to choose who is there representing him - and he is 100% correct, isn't he? Keep in mind, most of the things Boras says are simply posturing for a long term plan. If a player says "i want to sign with Team 'x'", like Varitek did, he gets a contract with that team. But he isn't going to tell them that. He's going to tell them that the player is being under-utilized, he prefers the other coast more and he's going to the highest bidder. Here were the quotes I saw from Fernandez: espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/14180952/jose-fernandez-says-agent-scott-boras-part-talks-miami-marlins-workload
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Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 24, 2015 0:57:09 GMT -5
One thing I'd ask all of you to consider is the changing environment for data about TJ surgery. There's been a spate of those over the last few years and so there's a lot more information on the efficacy and durability of those procedures. That data has, in turn, led some outspoken medical practitioners to flatly state that pitchers should be limited to fewer than 100 pitches per game.
Of course Boras is about protecting the clients he's invested in. What kind of agent, let alone businessman, would he be if he wasn't? Those clients also have an interest in protecting themselves, so those two mesh cleanly.
Consider this: the issue will be given instant visibility given what's been visited on the NFL thanks to the flood of evidence about the damage from concussions. We know a blown out arm can wipe out the earning power of a 22 year old permanently if it isn't managed well. How long will it be before the MLBPA pushes for provisions in the CBA demanding compensation when pitch limits are grossly exceeded? And they'll have data to back it up. I'll predict right now that this will play out in a rapidly changing environment, one that starts to factor in workplace injuries due to neglect and overuse, something baseball hasn't bothered with up to now.
Those who dismiss Boras are misreading the guy, it seems to me. There's a much bigger picture he's painting here, even if the owners don't see much art in it. I think he's ahead of the curve on this issue. He knows medicine and technology are on his side, and those are powerful forces to have in your corner.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 24, 2015 12:04:30 GMT -5
I think we are taking this way too far. Boras and JF are just trying to map out a rehab plan for this coming year. Neither are trying to change the game. Last thing either wants, is Fernandez reaching free agency on innings and pitch count limits. Next year is all about getting through healthy and effective to set himself up for an unleashed 2017 season.
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Boras
Nov 24, 2015 13:21:27 GMT -5
Post by Oregon Norm on Nov 24, 2015 13:21:27 GMT -5
What he may see is the opportunity to gain more leverage for his clients and himself. He's an opportunist, and I'll bet he understands that he's got public perception on his side. The game may very well see changes if he keeps pushing this, though I don't see it as his primary goal. And he does have an ever-growing body of information on his side, that's just reality.
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gerry
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Boras
Nov 8, 2017 20:04:50 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gerry on Nov 8, 2017 20:04:50 GMT -5
Why "welp?" The Red Sox historically have a good relationship with Boras. I rest my case, Your Honor: t.co/4mRMruHpcLAbsolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players. MLB's own version of Wall St. I wonder if this brings all the Marlins trade conjecture closer to reality? DDo is pretty good at trades. Don't want JDM any more.
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Boras
Nov 8, 2017 21:15:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pedrofanforever45 on Nov 8, 2017 21:15:49 GMT -5
Absolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players. MLB's own version of Wall St. I wonder if this brings all the Marlins trade conjecture closer to reality? DDo is pretty good at trades. Don't want JDM any more. I think there is a huge difference between the ask and the get in this case. The Sox are beggers for a big bat, not choosers. They need to take anything they can get.
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Post by jmei on Nov 8, 2017 22:11:40 GMT -5
Absolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players owners. MLB's own version of Wall St. I fixed that for you. I gladly cheer for every dollar Boras earns for his clients, which only come at the expense of owners' wallets. Root for the millionaires over the billionaires.
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Boras
Nov 8, 2017 22:54:34 GMT -5
Post by redsox04071318champs on Nov 8, 2017 22:54:34 GMT -5
Absolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players owners. MLB's own version of Wall St. I fixed that for you. I gladly cheer for every dollar Boras earns for his clients, which only come at the expense of owners' wallets. Root for the millionaires over the billionaires. I understand the sentiment and I'm sure you can refute this, but doesn't a higher payroll sometimes drive up ticket prices or increase the price of beer or hot dogs or whatever? The owners find a way to make their profit no matter what, and if the millionaires cut into that the fans pay. That screws the fans, the people who aren't a millionaire or a billionaire.
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gerry
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Boras
Nov 9, 2017 3:50:49 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gerry on Nov 9, 2017 3:50:49 GMT -5
Absolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players owners. MLB's own version of Wall St. I fixed that for you. I gladly cheer for every dollar Boras earns for his clients, which only come at the expense of owners' wallets. Root for the millionaires over the billionaires. Nope! The current norms, as typified by Boras and his ilk, as well as the union, do NOT protect the millionaires, nor the rookies, nor Pawtucket shuttle players, nor minor leaguers, nor the fans, nor the other players on the team, nor the team itself, and its ability to succeed. Therefore it does not protect the fans, the city, the ancillary businesses that survive on a successful team, nor the region. Trying to gouge a team negatively impacts the financial well being of everyone associated with the team. IMHO, when a player and agent act this way, they are no longer playing for love of the game, nor playing to win games for the team, team mates nor supporters. They are playing, exclusively, for the dollar. This is so obvious. Such big contracts on a cash or Luxury Tax-strapped team damages the earning capacity of his team mates (he gets uber rich at their expense) while even preventing the signing of other valuable players who could help the team. Any variation of 10/200M prevents the signing of, for example, Nunez, MM, Bryan Shaw, whatever, and also limits the team's ability to extend the "B's". It hurts the team's present and future. I don't care how good they are, if they are all about themselves and not the team, they ultimately and deliberately damage the team. It is NOT about the owners. JH will gladly spend 236M + penalties to field a winning TEAM. He has about 30M to fill several needed positions to be competitive. He can't blow the whole thing on JDM and hope to win now or in the future. It's not about the owners. It's about being fair to ALL the players while protecting all the stakeholders, including us. Boycott Boras. Pass on JDM.
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Boras
Nov 9, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -5
Post by artfuldodger on Nov 9, 2017 6:47:55 GMT -5
The issue is not Boras. Boras can ask for moon but the problem is that the owners usually cave to him. Signing the top free agents is an inefficient way to build a team. The death of Flores was not only deeply saddening, but removed,one of the best chips to make a Stanton trade. Looking for value on the trade front and waiting to for some mid level,free agents to be better value may be the wisest course.
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Boras
Nov 9, 2017 7:30:03 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jmei on Nov 9, 2017 7:30:03 GMT -5
I fixed that for you. I gladly cheer for every dollar Boras earns for his clients, which only come at the expense of owners' wallets. Root for the millionaires over the billionaires. I understand the sentiment and I'm sure you can refute this, but doesn't a higher payroll sometimes drive up ticket prices or increase the price of beer or hot dogs or whatever? The owners find a way to make their profit no matter what, and if the millionaires cut into that the fans pay. That screws the fans, the people who aren't a millionaire or a billionaire. This isn't how economics works. Ticket and concession prices are set by supply and demand and have just about nothing to do with player salaries. Owners aren't setting prices artificially low out of the goodness of their hearts. The only thing you might be able to say is that some owners might invest the extra profit they'd earn in capital improvements (ballpark renovations, etc.), but these guys generally have plenty of access to cash and it's not like they'd be hard up for it otherwise.
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Post by jimed14 on Nov 9, 2017 9:22:42 GMT -5
Absolutely predictable. Boycott Boras. This changes everything. Even his asking prices send chills down the backs of GM's and most players who know the rest of the 40-man pie will have to be cut in smaller pieces. Trouble is, this incoming tide raises the $$ of guys like Santana, Hosmer (despite QO) even Nunez, MM, LoMo, Duda and Alonzo, etc. This could even make Arb negotiations more contentious. Boras cares only about one thing: big $$$$ contract for his player and biiig $$$$ commission for himself; screw the team, the fans, the community, other players owners. MLB's own version of Wall St. I fixed that for you. I gladly cheer for every dollar Boras earns for his clients, which only come at the expense of owners' wallets. Root for the millionaires over the billionaires. In a vacuum, that is true. But mostly the money limits other things that the team can do now and in the future. That's why we root for lower salaries. I want the team to spend as much money as possible, but I don't want to spend more than necessary on one player to force bad decisions later. I personally root for the minor league players and league minimum players to get more money at the expense of the guys making $30 million/year.
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Post by Chris Hatfield on Nov 9, 2017 10:30:08 GMT -5
Friends, This is how negotiation works. Martinez will not get $200M. But teams that were going to try to come in low and waste Boras and Martinez's time aren't going to bother bidding now. Martinez will not sign for $200M. He might sign for more now that he has Boras than he would have before, but he's not getting $200M. Per Wikipedia, which is of course NEVER wrong, 15 professional athletes have signed $200M contracts: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_sports_contractsI always find the outrage when a player tries to maximize his earning potential confusing. Why is it that we expect professional athletes to settle for less than they're worth out of a sense of loyalty to... I dunno, a team that would trade them on a dime? Fans that will boo them the second they begin performing poorly? I don't get it.
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