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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 14:35:03 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 22, 2015 14:35:03 GMT -5
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 16:41:11 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 16:41:11 GMT -5
Jose wants out of Miami so bad haha
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 17:59:49 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 22, 2015 17:59:49 GMT -5
Jose wants out of Miami so bad haha Unfortunately, I think it's simply a matter of him losing perspective. The more he opens his mouth, the more it appears he's the pitching version of Yasiel Puig.
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Post by xanderdu on Nov 22, 2015 18:33:27 GMT -5
Jose wants out of Miami so bad haha Unfortunately, I think it's simply a matter of him losing perspective. The more he opens his mouth, the more it appears he's the pitching version of Yasiel Puig. I think people inside baseball know the difference between these two. JF is a baseball junkie and clearly doesn't want to waste any more years at that Miami circus. Puig is a manchild, with a great deal of maturity required. Other than throwing at an opponents head, JF does not hurt his team on the field the way Puig does.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 18:40:56 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 18:40:56 GMT -5
Jose wants out of Miami so bad haha Unfortunately, I think it's simply a matter of him losing perspective. The more he opens his mouth, the more it appears he's the pitching version of Yasiel Puig. Yeah, I mean his attitude doesn't sound great based on the reports. It's unprofessional and all that, but on the flip side I look at the Marlins and think of them as a horrific unprofessional team themselves. So I can't really blame him. I'd want out as well. The diva is still a bit off-putting though.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 21:25:41 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 22, 2015 21:25:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think it's simply a matter of him losing perspective. The more he opens his mouth, the more it appears he's the pitching version of Yasiel Puig. I think people inside baseball know the difference between these two. JF is a baseball junkie and clearly doesn't want to waste any more years at that Miami circus. Puig is a manchild, with a great deal of maturity required. Other than throwing at an opponents head, JF does not hurt his team on the field the way Puig does. It could be argued that saying your agent will dictate your innings pitched limit is, in fact, hurting the team. Basically, he's saying "There's one set of rules for everyone else on the team...And then there's a whole other set of rules for me, as decided by my agent."
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 21:31:18 GMT -5
Post by jmei on Nov 22, 2015 21:31:18 GMT -5
I don't have much of a problem with him putting his long-term health interests ahead of the interests of an organization that knows it can't sign him long-term and so has every incentive to overwork him.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 21:34:51 GMT -5
Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 22, 2015 21:34:51 GMT -5
Jose wants out of Miami so bad haha Unfortunately, I think it's simply a matter of him losing perspective. The more he opens his mouth, the more it appears he's the pitching version of Yasiel Puig.Really? Please describe how their personalities are similar.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 21:35:55 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 21:35:55 GMT -5
I think people inside baseball know the difference between these two. JF is a baseball junkie and clearly doesn't want to waste any more years at that Miami circus. Puig is a manchild, with a great deal of maturity required. Other than throwing at an opponents head, JF does not hurt his team on the field the way Puig does. It could be argued that saying your agent will dictate your innings pitched limit is, in fact, hurting the team. Basically, he's saying "There's one set of rules for everyone else on the team...And then there's a whole other set of rules for me, as decided by my agent." Ehh... I don't see it as different rules. Every TJ doctor suggests yearly timelines of ramping up innings. When it comes to health player and agent have to look out for themselves.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 21:42:06 GMT -5
jdb likes this
Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 22, 2015 21:42:06 GMT -5
No no, Jose Fernandez should sacrifice his career for the good of Jeffery Loria's money laundering operation.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 22:41:38 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 22, 2015 22:41:38 GMT -5
No no, Jose Fernandez should sacrifice his career for the good of Jeffery Loria's money laundering operation. Non sequitur much? Good grief. The level of intelligent discourse on these threads is really taking a nosedive this off-season.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 22:47:12 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 22:47:12 GMT -5
It's actually not that crazy of statement. The Marlins are a horrible horrible horrible organization. If I was Jose Fernandez I would lay out an innings limit, and count down the days until my free agency
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 23:00:12 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 22, 2015 23:00:12 GMT -5
It's actually not that crazy of statement. The Marlins are a horrible horrible horrible organization. If I was Jose Fernandez I would lay out an innings limit, and count down the days until my free agency There must be a generational divide going on here. The notion of quitting on your teammates because you're unhappy with your employer is anathema to everything long time fans of the sport hold sacred about baseball. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right?
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 23:28:44 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 22, 2015 23:28:44 GMT -5
It's actually not that crazy of statement. The Marlins are a horrible horrible horrible organization. If I was Jose Fernandez I would lay out an innings limit, and count down the days until my free agency There must be a generational divide going on here. The notion of quitting on your teammates because you're unhappy with your employer is anathema to everything long time fans of the sport hold sacred about baseball. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right? It's not quitting, it's being responsible and following doctor's orders. Your doctor tells you something, you follow. You do not owe the Marlins anything past the elbow ligament you've already given them. Especially considering the way they treat their young players. And long time fans of baseball, in that case, are unrealistic and naive. Baseball is a big, evil, money-grubbing sport. Players forego education and normal career paths. We, as fans, are idiotic if we demand they treat it as anything but. This is their career, their livelihood, a way to set themselves up for life. No need to blow a second elbow ligament for a team who refuses to spend money to have depth to cover your absence when you shut down your season for health reasons.
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Boras
Nov 22, 2015 23:33:46 GMT -5
Post by sdiaz1 on Nov 22, 2015 23:33:46 GMT -5
It's actually not that crazy of statement. The Marlins are a horrible horrible horrible organization. If I was Jose Fernandez I would lay out an innings limit, and count down the days until my free agency There must be a generational divide going on here. The notion of quitting on your teammates because you're unhappy with your employer is anathema to everything long time fans of the sport hold sacred about baseball. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right? Or you know, the guy also may want to still be pitching when he is 30. Players should have the ability to make decisions that may impact their careers, life earnings, and health.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 0:41:29 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 23, 2015 0:41:29 GMT -5
There must be a generational divide going on here. The notion of quitting on your teammates because you're unhappy with your employer is anathema to everything long time fans of the sport hold sacred about baseball. But hey, whatever floats your boat, right? Or you know, the guy also may want to still be pitching when he is 30. Players should have the ability to make decisions that may impact their careers, life earnings, and health. So you'd be cool with JBJ saying he doesn't want to steal bases or leap to make a catch against a wall because his agent Scott Boras has advised him it could impact his career, life earnings and health? Seriously, at what point does what you are prescribing - agent interference in actual game play - cross the line? Or, are we to understand that you'd actually prefer the agent to be in the dugout, making game decisions alongside the manager?
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 1:10:42 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 1:10:42 GMT -5
Or you know, the guy also may want to still be pitching when he is 30. Players should have the ability to make decisions that may impact their careers, life earnings, and health. So you'd be cool with JBJ saying he doesn't want to steal bases or leap to make a catch against a wall because his agent Scott Boras has advised him it could impact his career, life earnings and health? Seriously, at what point does what you are prescribing - agent interference in actual game play - cross the line? Or, are we to understand that you'd actually prefer the agent to be in the dugout, making game decisions alongside the manager? I'd be 100% okay with it if it was his doctor's orders. 100%. I'm not sure what injury a position player would undergo that would follow similar guidelines, but it's gravy by me. The last thing we need is JBJ jacking up his knee and his defense suffering so he's completely useless for the last 3-5 years of his deal. And who said Boras would be in the dugout? He said Boras and his docs would be involved, i.e. a hard innings cap. The team knows going into the year, it's their problem if they don't plan accordingly.
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gerry
Veteran
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Posts: 1,678
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 2:41:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by gerry on Nov 23, 2015 2:41:39 GMT -5
Players have little to say, until FA, about where and how they play or make. Their contract is owned by the team and it favors ownership. I'm OK with that. Wherever I have worked and in whatever capacity, i had to do what the boss wants, as we all do, no matter how stupid or detrimental to the company. The ideal relationship between owner and worker/boss and worker is one of participation and mutual respect, because such relatiionships work. Notwithstanding, If I gave orders to the boss I would get fired.
IMO relationships with coaches and managers, who are mentors and bosses, are fairly collegial these days. This is effective. That said, no matter how collegial, or how well a player is paid, fed, trained and respected, he is not the boss/owner. As long as that boss/owner isn't being abusive, it's his team and has the say, at least insofar as the Players Association agree. The Players Association, not the freaking agent.
You can bet, given an opportunity, Boras would gladly sit in the dugout and turn whatever situation occurs to the advantage of his client, as well as to himself. He is already doing this from the sidelines and through the media. His business is as grubby and personally avaricious as any element in the business of baseball. Perhaps more than most.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 8:25:37 GMT -5
Post by fenwaythehardway on Nov 23, 2015 8:25:37 GMT -5
Players have little to say, until FA, about where and how they play or make. Their contract is owned by the team and it favors ownership. I'm OK with that. Wherever I have worked and in whatever capacity, i had to do what the boss wants, as we all do, no matter how stupid or detrimental to the company. The ideal relationship between owner and worker/boss and worker is one of participation and mutual respect, because such relatiionships work. Notwithstanding, If I gave orders to the boss I would get fired. One, I'm guessing that you don't throw in the high 90s with a devastating curveball. Two, I'm also guessing that if you boss asked you to do something that you thought would result in injury to your body, possibly such that you'd never be able to work again, you probably wouldn't go along with that.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 8:26:09 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 8:26:09 GMT -5
In the end and after the weeks of discussion, Boras client Matt Harvey pitched 216 innings last year.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 8:27:23 GMT -5
Post by jimed14 on Nov 23, 2015 8:27:23 GMT -5
Players have little to say, until FA, about where and how they play or make. Their contract is owned by the team and it favors ownership. I'm OK with that. Wherever I have worked and in whatever capacity, i had to do what the boss wants, as we all do, no matter how stupid or detrimental to the company. The ideal relationship between owner and worker/boss and worker is one of participation and mutual respect, because such relatiionships work. Notwithstanding, If I gave orders to the boss I would get fired. One, I'm guessing that you don't throw in the high 90s with a devastating curveball. Two, I'm also guessing that if you boss asked you to do something that you thought would result in injury to your body, possibly such that you'd never be able to work again, you probably wouldn't go along with that. I know damn well that I wouldn't make it a public discussion.
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Post by rjp313jr on Nov 23, 2015 10:04:43 GMT -5
If your boss asks you to do something illegal you shouldn't do it just because your boss told you to. Nor, should you do things at work that are beyond your current physical state. This stuff happens in the real world all the time. Limited duty is a real thing after injury.
A player like Fernandez should balance team and personal well being. The team should help him do that. Things may change if a player is in the post season and they may throw caution to the wind then like Harvey did and that's understandable.
Bradley not going full bore while he's on the field is different than limiting the amount of time you are there. Can't compare the two. That'd be like Fernandez going out there and only throwing 80.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 14:36:59 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 14:36:59 GMT -5
Players have little to say, until FA, about where and how they play or make. Their contract is owned by the team and it favors ownership. I'm OK with that. Wherever I have worked and in whatever capacity, i had to do what the boss wants, as we all do, no matter how stupid or detrimental to the company. The ideal relationship between owner and worker/boss and worker is one of participation and mutual respect, because such relatiionships work. Notwithstanding, If I gave orders to the boss I would get fired. IMO relationships with coaches and managers, who are mentors and bosses, are fairly collegial these days. This is effective. That said, no matter how collegial, or how well a player is paid, fed, trained and respected, he is not the boss/owner. As long as that boss/owner isn't being abusive, it's his team and has the say, at least insofar as the Players Association agree. The Players Association, not the freaking agent. You can bet, given an opportunity, Boras would gladly sit in the dugout and turn whatever situation occurs to the advantage of his client, as well as to himself. He is already doing this from the sidelines and through the media. His business is as grubby and personally avaricious as any element in the business of baseball. Perhaps more than most. That's what he's paid to do haha. Boras is not some evil corporation. THE TEAMS ARE THE EVIL MONEY-GRUBBING CORPORATIONS. You guys are absolutely brainwashed. Fenway Park you pay 15 cents more per oz of beer than the next closest stadium. 25 cents more than league average PER OZ. Not per beer. Per-freakin-oz. They've sold you RUBBLE. Their personalized bricks are NOTHING MORE THAN RUBBLE. We gladly pay for infield DIRT. We buy FREAKING DIRT for TOP DOLLAR. Players are ready to play in the big leagues, and they're left to ROT in the minors to delay service time and arbitration clocks. The Marlins do this with players WHEN THE BIG LEAGUE TEAM IS STRUGGLING AND WOULD BENEFIT BY HAVING THEM COME UP. Holland gives his elbow ligament to the team, fights through and they decline his last year option. I will never understand why we as fans buy into the "you poor franchise, that evil player is spurning you!" storyline. We should be identifying with the players, not the giant omniscient global brands. We look at a guy making 20 million dollars a year and we think it's crazy, because the owners don't publicize how much THEY'RE making off you.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:00:47 GMT -5
Post by heisenberg on Nov 23, 2015 15:00:47 GMT -5
Boras is not some evil corporation. THE TEAMS ARE THE EVIL MONEY-GRUBBING CORPORATIONS. You guys are absolutely brainwashed. Everyone else is "brainwashed" and yet you're the one who doesn't realize that Boras IS IN FACT a corporation: www.borascorp.com/So, according to your own premise that "corporations are evil and money-grubbing," Boras is no more or less "evil and money-grubbing" than the baseball teams he feeds off of. And yet, you're somehow under the impression that Boras is a misunderstood angel who's only trying to earn his wings by landing poor players contracts well beyond their value. It seems someone here has attended one too many Bernie Sanders rallies.
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Boras
Nov 23, 2015 15:20:48 GMT -5
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Nov 23, 2015 15:20:48 GMT -5
You are really freaking amazing at typing out sentences people haven't typed, and then attributing those made up sentences to them. You'd make an absolutely horrific journalist.
I don't see Boras as evil in any way. He fights for the player to maximize their earnings and for teams to be respectful of their health concerns. We, the fans, being general mindless peons, think of him as evil because our favorite players play for peanuts (yes, peanuts, the amount of revenue they generate is insane) and then they leave in Free Agency to higher bidders, and we get butthurt because we're immature babies who are unable to grasp that this is a career and a way to earn money. Our wittle feewings get hurt when big bad Boras does a good job at setting up his player and his family for life.
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