|
Post by grandsalami on Dec 1, 2015 18:59:43 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by grandsalami on Dec 1, 2015 19:00:33 GMT -5
Scott LauberVerified account @scottlauber 9m9 minutes ago Scott Lauber Retweeted Marcus Stroman
Speaks to Price's leadership qualities. Can see him having a big impact on impressionable Eduardo Rodriguez.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2015 19:01:40 GMT -5
The opt out doesn't eliminate he upside only the upside in relation to their being no opt out in the same deal. However, we all know that's not realistic. The Sox were not looking at these two options: 1. 7/215 without and opt out 2. 7/215 with an opt out Was more like: 1. 7/215 with an opt out 2. Don't sign the player 3. 8/265 no opt out I'm pretty confident that Price didn't value the opt-out as being worth $50m. If it was worth, say, $10m to him, I'd rather have just given him the extra money. Somewhere in the middle, it gets hazier.
|
|
|
Post by humanbeingbean on Dec 1, 2015 19:04:29 GMT -5
Scott LauberVerified account @scottlauber 9m9 minutes ago Scott Lauber Retweeted Marcus Stroman Speaks to Price's leadership qualities. Can see him having a big impact on impressionable Eduardo Rodriguez. Wow, didn't even realize a possible mentor relationship like that could happen. That'll be awesome.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 1, 2015 19:06:13 GMT -5
Scott LauberVerified account @scottlauber 9m9 minutes ago Scott Lauber Retweeted Marcus Stroman Speaks to Price's leadership qualities. Can see him having a big impact on impressionable Eduardo Rodriguez. Hey, it's a win if he shows him how to stop tipping his damn pitches. Also, maybe he can show us where Toronto puts that guy in the OF who tips off the batters.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2015 19:07:19 GMT -5
Right, but that is precisely why they shouldn't have resigned those players to longer deals.....and thats exactly what fans of the opt-outs are hoping for as well (that we wouldn't re-sign Price after 3 yrs). The opt out has a fair chance of benefiting both the player and the current team, while not benefiting the team who decides to pay the premium on the player's older seasons. Letting them walk is easy to say in hindsight, but it would take a gm with balls of steel to let them go with no obvious replacement ready to go, especially in a market with overwhelming pressure coming from your boss and the fans. Right. It's really easy to say now that you just walk away after he opts out, but it's really hard to just let a 5+ win player walk, even if he is 33. The Dodgers are a really good test case this offseason. Friedman and co are among the most analytically-minded front offices out there, and you know they understand aging curves and paying for future production and not past production as much as anyone. Yet it looks like they're at worst going to make a competitive bid for Greinke and are probably the favorites to re-sign him to a $150m+ contract. ADD: I'll also note that Dombrowski was the GM who re-signed Miguel Cabrera and Justin Verlander to extensions covering their decline years that, so far, look pretty terrible. Those extensions were probably motivated at least in part by ownership, but my point is that you can't assume that the Red Sox under Dombrowski will be the ones to buck the trend.
|
|
|
Post by amfox1 on Dec 1, 2015 19:07:27 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 1, 2015 19:15:22 GMT -5
So it sounds like greinke was a lock if price went to STL. Interested to see what he gets, And if we will get a leaked Red Sox offer.
|
|
|
Post by mjammz on Dec 1, 2015 19:17:24 GMT -5
Fascinating to see behind the scenes machinations of the deal. What we've learned:
1) David Price was #1 target 2) Red Sox were getting Price or Grienke, DD wasn't missing out 3) Grienke would have come to Boston and Grienke's agents gave DD a number to accept 4) Dombrowski upped offer this morning and forced an answer with tonight as the deadline. 5) If Price went to STL, Dombrowski probably turns around and accepts Grienke's proposal. 6) Today was the "drop dead date" and it wouldn't be surprising if Grienke signs tonight.
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 1, 2015 19:19:32 GMT -5
Fascinating to see the behind the scenes mechanics of the deal. What we've learned: 5) If Price went to STL, Dombrowki probably turns around and accepts Grienke's proposal. Any guesses as to the figure? I'm estimating 6/185 no opt out was what greinkes camp put on the board.
|
|
|
Post by heisenberg on Dec 1, 2015 19:25:43 GMT -5
I'm liking what Dombrowski did here. By giving a drop dead date, he pitted Price against Greinke - As opposed to letting those two pit the Red Sox against the Dodgers, Giants and possibly Cardinals. Well done.
|
|
|
Post by iakovos11 on Dec 1, 2015 19:27:03 GMT -5
Can't wait for next offseason when we're debating how much we'd have to eat of the remaining 190m to dump him. C'mon dude. You've been constantly crapping on DDo's moves all offseason. At least be fair and reasonable. Nobody thinks this will be a bad deal next year or in the next 3 years. He's pitched well in the AL East and pitched exceptionally well in Fenway. No reason to believe he won't be outstanding for several years. Sure an injury can happen. But that doesn't really make your position any better. You can't predict those things. He's always been healthy. Your anti DDo sarcasm is getting old. You haven't offered any analysis or alternate opinions (as far as I can see). Have they overpaid a bit in prospects and money for Kimbrel and Price. Probably. But they got arguably one of the top 5 starters and closers. They gave up some decent prospects, but kept the ones most really wanted to keep. Try have the chance to trade a starter from depth for prospects to recoup somewhat what was lost in the Kimbrel deal (this has been reported - although I think it was Cafardo and I don;t trust anything from his mouth). Maybe not the most efficient offseason, but hard to argue he didn't address the Sox' needs and get things done.
|
|
|
Post by jmei on Dec 1, 2015 19:29:24 GMT -5
The Price vs. Greinke debate should be interesting. I think it's fair to say that whatever Greinke ultimately signs for, the Red Sox could probably signed him for something similar.
PS: I'll post a "grade the transaction"-type thread with a poll in a few days. I like to wait until the substantive discussion mostly dies down before posting it so that such discussion doesn't spill over to the poll thread and so we get all the details on the signing and folks have had a chance to think/read over some analysis before voting.
|
|
|
Post by Don Caballero on Dec 1, 2015 19:30:01 GMT -5
Unbelievable skill demonstrated by Dombrowski in offering $30 more than any competitor Thank God that's the only move the Boston GM will ever make so now Henry can fire him and save some of that money back!!!!
|
|
|
Post by umassgrad2005 on Dec 1, 2015 19:30:05 GMT -5
Yeah, would he do better than a 4/124 deal as a 33-year-old? He'd opt out only if he's not declining yet, at which point, the Red Sox would benefit from keeping him at 4/124. Not looking forward to months of arguing with people that opt-outs are only for the benefit of the player and not for the team. The team assumes all risk and get no additional benefit that he may outperform the contract. That Logic makes zero sense!!! Most people believe that Price will be elite/very very good for the next 3 years, its the last 4 years that scare people. Just because he's elite for the next 3 years, doesn't mean he'll be elite for the next 7 years dude! You keep posting this crab and it defies logic. History tells us that his age 34, 35 and 36 seasons will look nothing like his age 30, 31 and 32 seasons. Sure he could become Johnson, Schilling, Clemens or Mussina and pitch very well in his mid to late thirties, but the odds are stacked against that happening.
Opt out gives this benefit to the team; After 3 very good years he leaves and signs with another team, we get a pick and that other team pays for his decline years at more then we paid for his prime years.
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on Dec 1, 2015 19:34:32 GMT -5
Probably not going to happen, but if the Sox have a number that Greinke would accept? ??
|
|
|
Post by freddysthefuture2003 on Dec 1, 2015 19:36:19 GMT -5
Probably not going to happen, but if the Sox have a number that Greinke would accept? ?? Then they will also announce a 50% raise in all ticket prices at that joint press conference
|
|
|
Post by mannofsteele on Dec 1, 2015 19:38:55 GMT -5
While the money is ridiculous, it's finally time to be excited about the rotation again. He pushes back Buchholz and puts less of a strain on Eduardo Rodriguez and Porcello. I think he'll help Rodriguez a ton with his pitch selection and work ethic. I'm so excited!
|
|
|
Post by pedroelgrande on Dec 1, 2015 19:39:27 GMT -5
Probably not going to happen, but if the Sox have a number that Greinke would accept? ?? Um I want a pony too.
|
|
steveofbradenton
Veteran
Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
Posts: 1,826
|
Post by steveofbradenton on Dec 1, 2015 19:39:33 GMT -5
David Price has helped countless pitchers while in Tampa Bay. Ask Alex Cobb, Matt Moore, and especially Chris Archer. I can see Eduardo Rodriquez really blossoming over the next year or two, just because Price is there. Love the signing, and like the op-out. After 3 PRIME years of David Price anything can happen, including Anderson Espinoza being a real "beast" at this time.
Dombrowski has delivered! In does sort of make the Winter Meetings less important, but I'm fine without the stress of checking every few moments if the Sox had done something.
|
|
|
Post by blizzards39 on Dec 1, 2015 19:41:26 GMT -5
Probably not going to happen, but if the Sox have a number that Greinke would accept? ?? Then they will also announce a 50% raise in all ticket prices at that joint press conference Would definatly have to involve some other salary shedding. But in reality this is about the best we coulda hoped for. Next strops are probably just tweaking the pen. The farm is basicly in tact. And the overall team depth looks pretty good. The whole 1B situation scares me a bit. Welcome to Boston David Price. Can't wait for ST.
|
|
jimoh
Veteran
Posts: 3,989
|
Post by jimoh on Dec 1, 2015 19:41:29 GMT -5
I'm liking what Dombrowski did here. By giving a drop dead date, he pitted Price against Greinke - As opposed to letting those two pit the Red Sox against the Dodgers, Giants and possibly Cardinals. Well done. Yes, very impressive.
|
|
|
Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 1, 2015 19:41:30 GMT -5
David Price has helped countless pitchers while in Tampa Bay. Ask Alex Cobb, Matt Moore, and especially Chris Archer. I can see Eduardo Rodriquez really blossoming over the next year or two, just because Price is there. Love the signing, and like the op-out. After 3 PRIME years of David Price anything can happen, including Anderson Espinoza being a real "beast" at this time. Dombrowski has delivered! In does sort of make the Winter Meetings less important, but I'm fine without the stress of checking every few moments if the Sox had done something. Gives DD a lot of time and flexibility to look for trades to reinforce the pen and possibly move Hanley.
|
|
|
Post by chavopepe2 on Dec 1, 2015 19:42:38 GMT -5
He'd opt out only if he's not declining yet, at which point, the Red Sox would benefit from keeping him at 4/124. Not looking forward to months of arguing with people that opt-outs are only for the benefit of the player and not for the team. The team assumes all risk and get no additional benefit that he may outperform the contract. That Logic makes zero sense!!! Most people believe that Price will be elite/very very good for the next 3 years, its the last 4 years that scare people. Just because he's elite for the next 3 years, doesn't mean he'll be elite for the next 7 years dude! You keep posting this crab and it defies logic. History tells us that his age 34, 35 and 36 seasons will look nothing like his age 30, 31 and 32 seasons. Sure he could become Johnson, Schilling, Clemens or Mussina and pitch very well in his mid to late thirties, but the odds are stacked against that happening.
Opt out gives this benefit to the team; After 3 very good years he leaves and signs with another team, we get a pick and that other team pays for his decline years at more then we paid for his prime years.
Except Price only opts out if his market value is greater than what is left on the contract. And if his market value is greater than his contract than the team could trade him and get something in return.
|
|
|
Post by klostrophobic on Dec 1, 2015 19:44:04 GMT -5
Not my money so I don't care but I won't feel great about him until he pitched well in playoffs. Glad they got him though Luckily he's playing for a team without such considerations lately. But honestly this seems amazing. Love the opt-out.
|
|