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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 28, 2015 16:12:58 GMT -5
Chapman on verge of being dealt to the Yankees per multiple sources
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 28, 2015 16:17:25 GMT -5
Betances, Miller, Chapman may be a passable back-end of a bullpen.
Ken RosenthalVerified account
@ken_Rosenthal
Official: Aroldis Chapman to #Yankees.
--
Gotta think they'll keep trying to spin Miller into a big return (SP?), but the thought of those three together in one bullpen is pretty crazy.
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Post by templeusox on Dec 28, 2015 16:28:09 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse.
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Post by templeusox on Dec 28, 2015 16:28:45 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse.
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Post by templeusox on Dec 28, 2015 16:32:32 GMT -5
4 minor leaguers for Chapman and not one of them is good.
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 28, 2015 16:32:40 GMT -5
Bryan Hoch @bryanhoch 35s35 seconds ago
Yankees have acquired Aroldis Chapman from the Reds for RHPs Caleb Cotham and Rookie Davis and INFs Eric Jagielo and Tony Renda.
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Post by justen on Dec 28, 2015 16:34:44 GMT -5
Well damn, Cashman...
I get the lack of control and whatnot for Chapman, but how do the Reds feel like they didn't get hosed? Should of got at least one real good prospect for Chapman. Bad idea turning quarters into nickels (Think it's Hatfield or Jimed who favor that truthful expression)
ADD: Am I under-rating Jagielo maybe?
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Post by mattpicard on Dec 28, 2015 16:39:08 GMT -5
Reds must have really wanted to get this over with. They weren't getting top prospects like Kimbrel netted even before the domestic violence incident, and they must not have been getting offered much of anything after it -- it definitely crushed his value, and rightly so. Here's to hoping MLB levies out a significant suspension.
Yanks give up a solid-hitting third baseman who won't stick at the position, and then basically three non-prospects. Surely this will garner some major disappointment from Sox fans, but it's not right to compare the Chapman and Kimbrel situations, for multiple reasons.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 28, 2015 16:39:32 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways. Even before the deal with the Dodgers fell through, he wasn't bringing in close to what Kimbrel was. With his incident, he destroyed cincy's ability to negotiate with other teams and it appears as though they basically had to pick some team who would be willing to give up anything rather than stick with Chapman, get nothing, and have him suspended |
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Post by justen on Dec 28, 2015 16:41:27 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways I forgot about all of this. Suspend! Suspend! Suspend! |
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Post by humanbeingbean on Dec 28, 2015 16:42:32 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. Except we didn't trade for a reliever who could miss the entirety of next season. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 28, 2015 16:43:56 GMT -5
He's talking about the lack of major impact prospects the Yankees gave up for Aroldis Chapman. I still don't want Chapman on my team. I don't need saints, but I certainly don't want that guy.
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2015 16:44:27 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. Except we didn't trade for a reliever who could miss the entirety of next season. That would be a riot. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 28, 2015 16:46:08 GMT -5
Chapman on the Yankees is just another reason to hate the Yankees.
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Post by mredsox89 on Dec 28, 2015 16:50:24 GMT -5
I'm glad the Sox back end of the bullpen hopes are pinned to Kimbrel on a multi-year deal than a one year Chapman with a massive domestic violence cloud and likely suspensions hanging over his head.
Say this is the only big deal the Sox make for the bullpen and he's suspended for 50-75 games? Maybe they're not screwed because they'd still have Koji, but it's a far easier move for the Yankees to absorb. That being said, if they now go move Miller, which they apparently nearly did at the winter meetings, they could go from a ridiculous bullpen one day to a shaky one the next
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Post by templeusox on Dec 28, 2015 16:52:16 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways. Even before the deal with the Dodgers fell through, he wasn't bringing in close to what Kimbrel was. With his incident, he destroyed cincy's ability to negotiate with other teams and it appears as though they basically had to pick some team who would be willing to give up anything rather than stick with Chapman, get nothing, and have him suspended In which case they get another year of service out of him. |
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Post by pedroiaesque on Dec 28, 2015 16:52:21 GMT -5
I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways I forgot about all of this. Suspend! Suspend! Suspend! Here's the thing, if Chapman is suspended 50 games (the current assumption), he does not reach free agency at the end of next year. That means the Yankees are likely going to get him for 1 2/3 seasons, not just a reduced portion of 2016. That's why I assumed the Reds would hold onto Chapman until MLB made their decision. At least figure out what he is worth before just jettisoning him. The PR hit aside, you can't help but think this is a great deal for the Yankees. Here are the possible scenarios: 1. Chapman is not suspended. They can now trade Andrew Miller (for what you would have to think is a better package than what they just gave up). 2. Chapman is suspended for 50 games. They get to keep Chapman through the 2017 season. They hold on to Miller and Betances, Chapman likely comes back in midseason, and if he can shake off the rust, you can now trade Miller. Either way, their bullpen in 2016 is strong and they can sell of a reliever to recoup some of the lost prospects. Oh yeah, and all of this without losing any of their current top prospects. |
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Dec 28, 2015 16:55:53 GMT -5
I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways. Even before the deal with the Dodgers fell through, he wasn't bringing in close to what Kimbrel was. With his incident, he destroyed cincy's ability to negotiate with other teams and it appears as though they basically had to pick some team who would be willing to give up anything rather than stick with Chapman, get nothing, and have him suspended In which case they get another year of service out of him. I get what you're saying but as good as he is do you really want a lowlife like that on your team? It's hard to root for a guy like that - even on your own team. I can easily accept rooting for a guy that has warts like Boggs, but a violent guy like Chapman who uses that violence against women - it's just really hard to root for. |
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Post by Sox Mojo Rising on Dec 28, 2015 16:58:19 GMT -5
That Kimbrel haul is about to feel much worse. I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways. Even before the deal with the Dodgers fell through, he wasn't bringing in close to what Kimbrel was. With his incident, he destroyed cincy's ability to negotiate with other teams and it appears as though they basically had to pick some team who would be willing to give up anything rather than stick with Chapman, get nothing, and have him suspended The Reds could and should have kept him until the Yankees were willing to give up one of Bird, Sanchez, Judge or Mateo. At worst the Reds would have had to keep an elite closer, who would have netted the organization a draft pick at the end of next year (QO). To not get one top-5 prospect in the Yanks system, in a deal for one of the best relievers in MLB, is mind-boggling. Even with a possible looming suspension, he still gives the Yanks the scariest bullpen in MLB in the 2nd half of 2016. In 2015, Betances-Miller-Chapman combined for 212 IP - 347 K - 14.7 K/9 Incredible steal for Cashman and the Yankees... who now qualify to get a draft pick for him after 2016. |
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2015 16:59:46 GMT -5
Chapman on the Yankees is just another reason to hate the Yankees. And Chapman. Not that he needs much help there. |
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Post by jimed14 on Dec 28, 2015 17:07:23 GMT -5
I mean I'm not sure we could have suspected that Chapman would have been an idiot and drastically cut his trade value. He could very well face a suspension and the Yankees might not get close to a full season for him. Then I doubt they re-sign him anyways. Even before the deal with the Dodgers fell through, he wasn't bringing in close to what Kimbrel was. With his incident, he destroyed cincy's ability to negotiate with other teams and it appears as though they basically had to pick some team who would be willing to give up anything rather than stick with Chapman, get nothing, and have him suspended The Reds could and should have kept him until the Yankees were willing to give up one of Bird, Sanchez, Judge or Mateo. At worst the Reds would have had to keep an elite closer, who would have netted the organization a draft pick at the end of next year (QO). To not get one top-5 prospect in the Yanks system, in a deal for one of the best relievers in MLB, is mind-boggling. Even with a possible looming suspension, he still gives the Yanks the scariest bullpen in MLB in the 2nd half of 2016. In 2015, Betances-Miller-Chapman combined for 212 IP - 347 K - 14.7 K/9 Incredible steal for Cashman and the Yankees... I just don't really get this line of thinking. So you're going to pitch one of the best relief pitchers in baseball in a 6-1 game in the 7th inning? I just don't know that there's enough high leverage situations to use these pitchers in a valuable way. It just seems like a waste unless they trade Miller. |
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Post by pokeyreesespieces on Dec 28, 2015 17:26:47 GMT -5
I just don't know that there's enough high leverage situations to use these pitchers in a valuable way. It just seems like a waste unless they trade Miller. So you essentially think there's only 140-150 high leverage relief innings a season? |
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Post by ray88h66 on Dec 28, 2015 17:28:05 GMT -5
Big time steal for the Yanks, even if he's suspended. I knew the day would come I'd find something to agree with temple on.
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Post by jmei on Dec 28, 2015 17:37:10 GMT -5
I just don't know that there's enough high leverage situations to use these pitchers in a valuable way. It just seems like a waste unless they trade Miller. So you essentially think there's only 140-150 high leverage relief innings a season? Yes, and he's right. There are about 100 high-leverage relief appearances per team per season, and there are roughly three times as many low-leverage relief situations as high-leverage relief situations ( link). That's not to suggest that having great relief depth is pointless-- excellent relief performances in medium- and low-leverage situations still matter, and depth is nice in case your top guys get hurt. But there is an element of diminishing returns. |
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Post by thursty on Dec 28, 2015 17:43:38 GMT -5
If nothing else, it demonstrates the virtue of patience over panic.
And exposes all the "identified who he wanted and went out and got him - what a MAN!" for the palaver that it always was.
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