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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 3, 2016 21:17:28 GMT -5
Under the assumption that Blake continues to develop at such a phenomenal pace (he's only 23, even more impressive since he's a catcher), there's no way we should consider moving him from catcher. His trade value would far exceed his value at any other position. If we needed a first baseman, for example, you could get a far better first baseman for him than the first baseman (or left fielder) than he would be.
We have two excellent young catchers (about equal future value in my mind) and one of the best backup catchers in baseball and two more major league experienced MLB catchers in emergency mode. That's strength in an area where most teams are weak.
ADD: I'm a believer in things working out. We have Ortiz retiring after this year and likely Benintendi and Moncada making their debuts next year. That leaves open the possibility or rotating the DH position to give more ABs without having a full time DH.
Unless Weems suddenly turns into what we expected when we drafted him, it's a long time before a decent catcher is likely to be developed.
ADD2: Last year there were only 11 catchers that got into more than 115 games. There's plenty of room for two healthy, top catchers.
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Post by greenmonster on Feb 3, 2016 22:54:09 GMT -5
Swihart's second position should be LF. He's got the speed and athleticism to handle it. Plus he could possibly platoon with Castillo.nm
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 4, 2016 2:21:27 GMT -5
Swihart's second position should be LF. He's got the speed and athleticism to handle it. Plus he could possibly platoon with Castillo.nm What???!!
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 4, 2016 5:33:34 GMT -5
The only reason why I even suggested LF is because that's the only place I could see benifting the Sox in 2016. Taking away at bats from Castillo against RHP and NOT taking away at bats at 1B with Shaw and Hanley is the best way to get the most production for the Sox.
In no way do I see this as a long term plan to keep Swihart in Lf but it would buy the Sox time in evaluating Swihart and Vasquez BOTH at the major league level. It would buy Swihart time to work on his catching skills while not being forced to play there everyday and it would give the Sox a chance to see if Vasquez's bat can play well enough to be a everyday catcher. If Vasquez can't hit well enough then the Sox have a backup catcher. If he can hit well enough then the Sox might have to make a future decision at the catching position and see which player they like best. Swihart or Vasquez. If both players prove to be everyday players then it's a detriment to keep both. It wastes your trade pieces and it takes at bats away from both players.
For now though, the Sox should experiment to try and find time for both these players to find out who's the future and who isn't. The only way to do that is to get them everyday at bats at the major league level. AAA proves nothing at this point. The ONLY reason Vasquez is going there this year is because he missed a year of baseball in 2015.
Putting Swihart at 1B is useless for the Sox. If worst comes to worst, I'd rather have Sam Travis up here getting at bats if Hanley is hurt or can't play first and Shaw proves to be a flash in the pan in 2015.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 4, 2016 7:34:04 GMT -5
You don't work on catching by playing LF.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Feb 4, 2016 9:21:26 GMT -5
The only reason why I even suggested LF is because that's the only place I could see benifting the Sox in 2016. Taking away at bats from Castillo against RHP and NOT taking away at bats at 1B with Shaw and Hanley is the best way to get the most production for the Sox. In no way do I see this as a long term plan to keep Swihart in Lf but it would buy the Sox time in evaluating Swihart and Vasquez BOTH at the major league level. It would buy Swihart time to work on his catching skills while not being forced to play there everyday and it would give the Sox a chance to see if Vasquez's bat can play well enough to be a everyday catcher. If Vasquez can't hit well enough then the Sox have a backup catcher. If he can hit well enough then the Sox might have to make a future decision at the catching position and see which player they like best. Swihart or Vasquez. If both players prove to be everyday players then it's a detriment to keep both. It wastes your trade pieces and it takes at bats away from both players. For now though, the Sox should experiment to try and find time for both these players to find out who's the future and who isn't. The only way to do that is to get them everyday at bats at the major league level. AAA proves nothing at this point. The ONLY reason Vasquez is going there this year is because he missed a year of baseball in 2015. Putting Swihart at 1B is useless for the Sox. If worst comes to worst, I'd rather have Sam Travis up here getting at bats if Hanley is hurt or can't play first and Shaw proves to be a flash in the pan in 2015. While I agree with this thinking in a normal scenario, as Phils notes, there aren't any other catchers knocking the door down in our system. I believe we need to keep BOTH CV & Blake, Hanigan is gone after this year. With all the injuries catchers go through, we need both. If one is traded, your left with the Sandy Leon's of the world if/when a foul tip breaks a hand.
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Post by rjp313jr on Feb 4, 2016 9:26:59 GMT -5
Swithart is the starting catcher in 2016 for the Boston Red Sox if everyone is healthy opening Day and he should be. Vasquez should be in AAA rehabbing or whatever you want to call it.
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steveofbradenton
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Watching Spring Training, the FCL, and the Florida State League
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Post by steveofbradenton on Feb 4, 2016 10:13:47 GMT -5
Swithart is the starting catcher in 2016 for the Boston Red Sox if everyone is healthy opening Day and he should be. Vasquez should be in AAA rehabbing or whatever you want to call it. Totally right!! We have excellent depth starting this season, but it doesn't take much to dwindle it down considerably in an instant. If things work out well for Christian, at mid-season Hanigan may be worth trading....but lets not get in any hurry. There is absolutely no reason to be rash. Few clubs, if any, have this luxury. Few teams have the starting pitching depth we have either. It is a long season, and our depth will keep us afloat where other teams will (hopefully) sink.
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Post by sox fan in nc on Feb 4, 2016 11:03:40 GMT -5
Swithart is the starting catcher in 2016 for the Boston Red Sox if everyone is healthy opening Day and he should be. Vasquez should be in AAA rehabbing or whatever you want to call it. Totally right!! We have excellent depth starting this season, but it doesn't take much to dwindle it down considerably in an instant. If things work out well for Christian, at mid-season Hanigan may be worth trading....but lets not get in any hurry. There is absolutely no reason to be rash. Few clubs, if any, have this luxury. Few teams have the starting pitching depth we have either. It is a long season, and our depth will keep us afloat where other teams will (hopefully) sink. I'm with you on this. I was talking about when CV is ready for Boston. Trade Hanigan then & just rotate CV & Blake, maybe rotating Blake to another position. I just don't want to trade CV or Blake even if they are both succeeding. It may be a bit of overkill, but the fact that there is no one else on the horizon makes me lean towards keeping them both.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 5, 2016 23:09:33 GMT -5
Swithart is the starting catcher in 2016 for the Boston Red Sox if everyone is healthy opening Day and he should be. Vasquez should be in AAA rehabbing or whatever you want to call it. Of course it's going to start that way but what happens if Castillo isn't hitting RHP? What if Vasquez is hitting in AAA by june? Don't you think both could be related? If you split time at just the catching position between Vasquez and Swihart, you didn't have enough at bats for both players to gauge a full evaluation. If Vasquez had 60-70% of the catching duties from June on, and if Swihart had the other 30-40% at the catching position WHILE having 30% of the time at LF then you have something there.
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Post by philsbosoxfan on Feb 6, 2016 3:57:54 GMT -5
Swithart is the starting catcher in 2016 for the Boston Red Sox if everyone is healthy opening Day and he should be. Vasquez should be in AAA rehabbing or whatever you want to call it. Of course it's going to start that way but what happens if Castillo isn't hitting RHP? What if Vasquez is hitting in AAA by june? Don't you think both could be related? If you split time at just the catching position between Vasquez and Swihart, you didn't have enough at bats for both players to gauge a full evaluation. If Vasquez had 60-70% of the catching duties from June on, and if Swihart had the other 30-40% at the catching position WHILE having 30% of the time at LF then you have something there. It's too bad we don't have guys like Young and Holt, they'd make terrific 4th outfielders in case things don't work out for Castillo. Keep in mind, Castillo's plus defense likely means he wouldn't need to hit all that much to be a team plus.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 6, 2016 9:09:13 GMT -5
Of course it's going to start that way but what happens if Castillo isn't hitting RHP? What if Vasquez is hitting in AAA by june? Don't you think both could be related? If you split time at just the catching position between Vasquez and Swihart, you didn't have enough at bats for both players to gauge a full evaluation. If Vasquez had 60-70% of the catching duties from June on, and if Swihart had the other 30-40% at the catching position WHILE having 30% of the time at LF then you have something there. It's too bad we don't have guys like Young and Holt, they'd make terrific 4th outfielders in case things don't work out for Castillo. Keep in mind, Castillo's plus defense likely means he wouldn't need to hit all that much to be a team plus. Young is virtually the same player as Castillo. Holt could be okay but Swihart would be better than Holt. That's the point. Putting out the best line-up and giving the team a best chance to win. Defense in lf Fenway is a little overrated. Castillo has also shown instincts of a little leaguer out in the outfield at times. The Sox wouldn't be losing much defensively if they put Swihart out there. He's fast, he has a arm, he could have all the makings to make a great platoon partner with Castillo.
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Post by jmei on Feb 6, 2016 9:26:41 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet that Castillo is at least 10 runs better on an annual basis than Swihart in LF, and it's probably closer to 20. I'm not sure why you think Castillo has bad instincts-- he adapted to playing LF in Fenway well last year and, in particular, played the wall really well. Swihart is fast for a catcher, but on an absolute basis, he's not that much better than average (and certainly slower than Castillo), and you can't assume that he'd make a seamless transition to a position he's not ever really played before.
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Post by redsox04071318champs on Feb 6, 2016 9:54:56 GMT -5
It's too bad we don't have guys like Young and Holt, they'd make terrific 4th outfielders in case things don't work out for Castillo. Keep in mind, Castillo's plus defense likely means he wouldn't need to hit all that much to be a team plus. Young is virtually the same player as Castillo. Holt could be okay but Swihart would be better than Holt. That's the point. Putting out the best line-up and giving the team a best chance to win. Defense in lf Fenway is a little overrated. Castillo has also shown instincts of a little leaguer out in the outfield at times. The Sox wouldn't be losing much defensively if they put Swihart out there. He's fast, he has a arm, he could have all the makings to make a great platoon partner with Castillo. No thanks to Swihart out in LF. Let him become the regular catcher they need. Castillo has flaws in his game, but playing the LF wall isn't one of them. I'm kind of tired of hearing that LF defense at Fenway is overrated. There was a huge difference between Yaz and Hanley out in LF and we can't pretend otherwise. Castillo covers a lot of ground which allows the CF not to have to cover him as Johnny Damon had to do when Manny roamed LF or Burks had to do when Greenwell was out there. Castillo's defense in LF should be an asset as will Benintendi's when I assume he takes the LF job in 2017. You just can't throw some guy out there. Swihart has the tools to become an excellent starting catcher. He has the ability to improve defensively although he'd be hard pressed to be Vazquez. I'll still take Swihart's present and future bat to Vazquez's. Right now the Sox don't need to choose between Swihart and Vazquez. By throwing Swihart into another position you take away from him ability to improve behind the plate, which at his age and stage of his career he needs. You also weaken the impact of his bat, so unless the Sox get absolutely nothing out of LF or 3b or 1b, I can't even see justification for this. I mean, between Holt and Shaw and Travis and Young, the Sox should have enough depth if Hanley or Panda or Castillo struggle to the point of being horrendous. Swihart at another position at this point would have to absolutely be a last resort, like after going outside the organization to get another player if need be.
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Post by jmei on Feb 6, 2016 10:34:53 GMT -5
Right, there are scenarios in which it might make sense to give Swihart reps in LF (or 1B, or 3B), but enough things have to break just right-- Swihart has to hit well, Vazquez has to be healthy and productive both offensively and defensively, Castillo has to play poorly or be injured, the next couple options on the depth chart have to have failed, there are no better alternatives on the trade market, etc.-- that I don't think it's worth changing Swihart's routine to give him reps at other positions at this point.
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Post by ryantoworkman on Feb 6, 2016 10:35:14 GMT -5
It's too bad we don't have guys like Young and Holt, they'd make terrific 4th outfielders in case things don't work out for Castillo. Keep in mind, Castillo's plus defense likely means he wouldn't need to hit all that much to be a team plus. Young is virtually the same player as Castillo. Holt could be okay but Swihart would be better than Holt. That's the point. Putting out the best line-up and giving the team a best chance to win. Defense in lf Fenway is a little overrated. Castillo has also shown instincts of a little leaguer out in the outfield at times. The Sox wouldn't be losing much defensively if they put Swihart out there. He's fast, he has a arm, he could have all the makings to make a great platoon partner with Castillo. Sorry, but this is overly pessimistic on Castillo, and dismissive of the talent Young has. I'm really perplexed as to why you can't see their 40 man roster depth as the huge advantage it is for the Sox. As presently constituted the Sox have triple ML ready depth at every position on the field. That's an enormous advantage over the competition, some of whom (White Sox, Indians) are still trying to fill primary option holes. This franchise is positioned for a good long run of postseasons. Be patient, let the talent mature and place the best where they are needed most. There is zero reason to rush anything, or make rash moves because something might be as we see it. Let's eliminate the question marks, good or bad,, and react to what that data indicates. It behooves the team to extract maximum value from all their players, and they need at bats, and time in the field for that to happen.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 6, 2016 12:03:35 GMT -5
[...Young is virtually the same player as Castillo. Holt could be okay but Swihart would be better than Holt. That's the point. Putting out the best line-up and giving the team a best chance to win. Defense in lf Fenway is a little overrated. Castillo has also shown instincts of a little leaguer out in the outfield at times. The Sox wouldn't be losing much defensively if they put Swihart out there. He's fast, he has a arm, he could have all the makings to make a great platoon partner with Castillo. I have no idea where you got that from. I watched all the games he played in LF and he was by far the best outfielder the Sox have had out there in some time, even better than Bradley at playing that difficult corner with the angles and the doorway. The great arm let him keep runners from advancing to second, which led to a double play in one instance. If that's little league give us more.
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Post by humanbeingbean on Feb 6, 2016 12:47:54 GMT -5
Another thing to consider is that even if Castillo (and Young, then) play so poorly as to make Swihart to LF make any sense at all, wouldn't Benintendi be a better option, especially if it's late summer or so and Andrew's torn it up in Portland and Pawtucket by then? I don't want to be seen as overly optimistic on Benintendi's potential and rise through the system, but from a best product on the field approach, it has to make more sense for the Sox to move aggressively with Benintendi than to give Swihart an entire new defensive challenge in his first full MLB season.
I feel like this entire conversation will be moot, though, because we have Chris Young and Holt. Maybe even Shaw could play a decent (or not awful) left. But if Castillo is iffy all season, Benintendi could be right there next season.
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Post by ray88h66 on Feb 6, 2016 14:46:05 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet that Castillo is at least 10 runs better on an annual basis than Swihart in LF, and it's probably closer to 20. I'm not sure why you think Castillo has bad instincts-- he adapted to playing LF in Fenway well last year and, in particular, played the wall really well. Swihart is fast for a catcher, but on an absolute basis, he's not that much better than average (and certainly slower than Castillo), and you can't assume that he'd make a seamless transition to a position he's not ever really played before. Just a nitpick. I only had the stopwatch on him for two games, but Swihart was fast, not just fast for a catcher. I never timed Rusney so I'll take your word he's faster.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 6, 2016 17:03:51 GMT -5
[...Young is virtually the same player as Castillo. Holt could be okay but Swihart would be better than Holt. That's the point. Putting out the best line-up and giving the team a best chance to win. Defense in lf Fenway is a little overrated. Castillo has also shown instincts of a little leaguer out in the outfield at times. The Sox wouldn't be losing much defensively if they put Swihart out there. He's fast, he has a arm, he could have all the makings to make a great platoon partner with Castillo. I have no idea where you got that from. I watched all the games he played in LF and he was by far the best outfielder the Sox have had out there in some time, even better than Bradley at playing that difficult corner with the angles and the doorway. The great arm let him keep runners from advancing to second, which led to a double play in one instance. If that's little league give us more. Castillo doesn't focus. Sure he looked best out in LF but I've also seen a groundball go past him in the outfield and saw him throw a ball into the crowd with a runner on with less than 3 outs. I'm intrigued to see what he can do defensively a little bit at Fenway, but I have no faith in him offensively. The guy has a huge groundball rate. He can't hit the ball past the infield and he takes forever to get out of the batters box.
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Post by dirtywater43 on Feb 6, 2016 17:17:58 GMT -5
I'm willing to bet that Castillo is at least 10 runs better on an annual basis than Swihart in LF, and it's probably closer to 20. I'm not sure why you think Castillo has bad instincts-- he adapted to playing LF in Fenway well last year and, in particular, played the wall really well. Swihart is fast for a catcher, but on an absolute basis, he's not that much better than average (and certainly slower than Castillo), and you can't assume that he'd make a seamless transition to a position he's not ever really played before. Just a nitpick. I only had the stopwatch on him for two games, but Swihart was fast, not just fast for a catcher. I never timed Rusney so I'll take your word he's faster. I'll concur with that. I had never seen a catcher hit a inside the park homerun before last year and he did that. I was watching him fly around the bases and said "this guy is a catcher?" He is really fast, wouldn't be surprised if he was a 20 stolen base threat someday.
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Post by Oregon Norm on Feb 6, 2016 17:53:23 GMT -5
The overriding impression when watching Swihart, for me, is that he's an athlete playing baseball. What that means for his value or where he should play, I have no idea. He's still learning, it seems. I thought he was pulling his foot out hitting left-handed against same-side pitching early in the season, putting it in the bucket they used to say. By the end of the season that looked like it was no longer happening. All that makes him a really interesting player.
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Post by philarhody on Feb 6, 2016 18:04:40 GMT -5
Swihart to 1B?
Sooo is he a really bad catcher or are we just overvaluing a first baseman/left fielder who can put up an .800 OPS? Edit: maybe an .800 OPS
Vasquez to 3rd?
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Post by mattpicard on Feb 6, 2016 18:20:55 GMT -5
The overriding impression when watching Swihart, for me, is that he's an athlete playing baseball. What that means for his value or where he should play, I have no idea. He's still learning, it seems. I thought he was pulling his foot out hitting left-handed against same-side pitching early in the season, putting it in the bucket they used to say. By the end of the season that looked like it was no longer happening. All that makes him a really interesting player. Guessing you mean hitting left-handed against RHP, as he's a switch hitter. Actually, it's interesting that his numbers in MLB were pretty solid vs RHP (.754 OPS), while he struggled vs. LHP (.603) after typically hitting them much better in the minors. I'll chalk that up to SSS -- his swing still seemed prettier from the right side.
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Post by jimed14 on Feb 6, 2016 18:43:06 GMT -5
I just don't understand the point of this entire conversation. Swihart probably won't hit as well as either Castillo or Holt or Shaw or Young this year, all of which could or will play LF. It's possible of course, but I'd have to pick Swihart last on that list like Steamer also does. There is no team need for Swihart to pick up LF. And Swihart's needs are to develop as much as possible at catching, which is what he should and will do. This is a pointless conversation about something that will never happen and should never happen any time in the near future.
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